Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part X | Will Mitch get an OS?

[Seanaconda]

Everyone seems to think that the 4 first rounders need to be kept by the Leafs. They can easily be parlayed into 2 young proven players to add to the core.

Would you trade 2 first rounders to let say Florida for Ekblad?
Obviously more to the deal. But would be a blazing start to get your D in order.
How about 2 first rounders to a team like Carolina or NJ for one if their many dmen?

Just because Marner gains us 4 first round picks. Doesn’t mean we use them to improve our team at the draft.

People need to remember no Marner means 10 million in additional cap space to acquire salary in deals without giving off your roster. Means players like Kadri or Nylander or Kapanen or Johnsson stay with the team.

You have the ability to entice teams to trade dmen to us and we would be able to acquire 2 dmen making 4.5-5.5 million a season to shore up our D.

And you can still trade Brown and Zaitsev to make more space to improve you 4th line and 3rd pairing.

People need to have an open mind.

Two top 4 dmen, better 4th line center, better 4th line winger, and better 3rd pairing dmen is worth Marner for me. Especially if it means keeping other skill and talent up front.

No-one wants your picks 3-4 years out so you'll have to wait to get value and I don't think you can afford two good pieces when you can't afford one.

And why would Florida give you ekblad? They wanna sign panarin Bob and then move assets for another dman if they can't fill that

 

[coupe93]

My gut says signing will be announced on Canada Day. Reminiscent of JT's signing.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Is it possible for a team to offersheet Dubas?

 

[HappyJoy]

My gut says signing will be announced on Canada Day. Reminiscent of JT's signing.

I cant wait to see what kind of overpay he gets. Im hoping for 13x8

 

[Confucius]

I cant wait to see what kind of overpay he gets. Im hoping for 13x8

Can't sign a 13 year deal... lol

 

[ORRFForever]

Isn't this done yet?

 

[saffronleaf]

If Marner doesn't accept 8x8, Dubois' follow-up offer should be an Uber to Pearson.

 

[saffronleaf]

What does Basscock think of all this?

 

[Menzinger]

Lets compair the production of all those in the last 2 years + playoffs.

Rantanen:
Regular season:

2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	81	29	55	84
	Finland “A”	WC	8	5	6	11
	Finland (all)	International	8	5	6	11
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	74	31	56	87

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoffs:

2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Playoffs	6	0	4	4
	Finland “A”	WC
	Finland (all)	International
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Playoffs	12	6	8	14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Comment: Has scored more than marner past 2 years. Solid playoffs dispite injured.

Aho:
Regular season:

2017-18	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL	78	29	36	65
	Finland “A”	WC	8	9	9	18
	Finland (all)	International	9	10	9	19
2018-19	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL	82	30	53	83

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoffs:

2017-18	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL
	Finland “A”	WC
	Finland (all)	International
2018-19	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL	Playoffs	15	5	7	12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Comment:
Has almost the sam production but is a center and plays with significantly worse players. Solid playoffs despite injured.

Laine:
Reguler season:

2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	44	26	70	24	8
2018-19	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	30	20	50	42	-24

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoffs:

2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	Playoffs	17	5	7	12	4	2
2018-19	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	Playoffs	6	3	1	4	0	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Comment: Laine was injured this whole season but is close to a generational goalscorer. 44 goals a 19 year old.

Marner:
Regular season:

2017-18	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	22	47	69	26	-1
2018-19	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	26	68	94	22	22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoffs:

2017-18	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	Playoffs	7	2	7	9	4	2
2018-19	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	Playoffs	7	2	2	4	2	-4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Comment: is a good player, player with great players. Ok playoffs but nothing special.


My question is, how is Marner more valuable or is just some canadian home town bias?

Good post.

Even if somebody wants to give the edge/preference to Marner, hes not from negotiations POV worth any more than those other guys. Just because we like a player doesnt mean hes arbitrarily worth an extra million a year

 

[HappyJoy]

Good post.

Even if somebody wants to give the edge/preference to Marner, hes not from negotiations POV worth any more than those other guys. Just because we like a player doesnt mean hes arbitrarily worth an extra million a year

He's a hometown hero tho. To some people that seems to mean he should get an additional 1-2 mil. That's the only explanation since he should get max 9.5 mil at 8 years. He should Not make more than Kuch.

 

[Heisen]

He's a hometown hero tho. To some people that seems to mean he should get an additional 1-2 mil. That's the only explanation since he should get max 9.5 mil at 8 years. He should Not make more than Kuch.

His contract is worth 16% more in that state, thus the 11 ask from Marner. It's not hard.

 

[HappyJoy]

His contract is worth 16% more in that state, thus the 11 ask from Marner. It's not hard.

Doesnt matter, all teams have the same salary cap. The cap unfortunately doesnt take in to account different taxes is states/ countries. I never saw these arguments for WNs negotiations but now all of a sudden people come up with all kinds of silly reasons to make MM the best paid RFA winger ever. 9.5 should be his upper limit on a 8 year deal.

 

[FlareKnight]

His contract is worth 16% more in that state, thus the 11 ask from Marner. It's not hard.

I guess the Leafs should refuse to front-load Marner's contract then. If he's already being compensated for taxes then he doesn't need the benefit of the advantages the Leafs can offer.

Marner doesn't deserve Matthews money. It's not that hard to understand. He'll either get over his ego and greed or he won't be a Leaf next season. We'll find out sooner or later which it is.

 

[Menzinger]

Also the state tax issue is overblown, it applies to just 50% of games anyways.

 

[Heisen]

I guess the Leafs should refuse to front-load Marner's contract then

So he earns $30M in 2 years thanks to structure. Half is gone already before he can invest. Assuming he invests nearly every penny of his money... $15M, at a generous 4% return. He'd earn about $3.3M in interest over 5 years, or, $660K/yearly.... or put in other terms, less than half than he'd save if he were playing in Tampa.

Sorry, not so much of an advantage. Even if you can break it out to even, you still got the snow tax.

 

[nuck]

If

He's a RFA. I'm pretty sure he can get traded to FLA for a bag of pucks if Dubas wanted to. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If Dubas trades an unsigned player who is looking at offer sheets the only guarantee the other club has is for the compensation picks. Without Marner agreeing to sign with the new club he can still take his talents to another team.

 

[hockeywiz542]

SIMMONS: No matter what Marner signs for, it’s too much for cash-strapped Leafs

Lost in so much of the Mitch Marner contract conversation is this: How do the Maple Leafs sign him for anywhere near his worth and at the same time find a way to make sense of their overly complicated salary-cap situation?

Let’s say Marner signs for $10.5 million per year, which is probably low in the big picture. That would put the Leafs more than $4 million over the $81.5-million cap with a summer to find a way to shed close to $5 million from their payroll.

Could the Leafs find one of those phony Chris Pronger-Pavel Datsyuk kind of deals to rid themselves of the $5.3 million they have owing to the injured Nathan Horton? Or can they do the same by placing him on long-term disability? One of those possibilities must occur for the Leafs to dig out of their current mess.

Trading Nazem Kadri for a draft pick or a number of picks, weakens your team at centre but opens up $4.5 million in cap possibilities.

Trading William Nylander will save money but what would the return be and how does that help your team?

Defenceman Nikita Zaitsev wants out and he gets paid $4.5 million for the next five seasons, but how do you make a deal such as that without taking some kind of salary back, if not a player to fill Zaitsev’s absence.

Connor Brown is paid $2 million a year and, as much as the Leafs don’t want to deal him, they may be forced to do so.

And this is before they can consider signing Ron Hainsey or anyone else to make their blueline better. Zaitsev, Hainsey and free agent Jake Gardiner were all 20-minute defencemen. How do you lose all three, have little to spend, and get better in the process?

For all the smart people in the Leafs front office — Brendan Shanahan, Kyle Dubas, Laurence Gilman and money man Brandon Pridham — it’s remarkable the Leafs are in such financial difficulty on the eve of NHL free agency.

 

[Suntouchable13]

So he earns $30M in 2 years thanks to structure. Half is gone already before he can invest. Assuming he invests nearly every penny of his money... $15M, at a generous 4% return. He'd earn about $3.3M in interest over 5 years, or, $660K/yearly.... or put in other terms, less than half than he'd save if he were playing in Tampa.

Sorry, not so much of an advantage. Even if you can break it out to even, you still got the snow tax.

Fine, he can go play in TB. I don't give a f***. If taxes are such a big deal to him, he can take a hike. I don't care about any individual player. The Leafs will continue to exist just fine without Marner.

 

[Menzinger]

So he earns $30M in 2 years thanks to structure. Half is gone already before he can invest. Assuming he invests nearly every penny of his money... $15M, at a generous 4% return. He'd earn about $3.3M in interest over 5 years, or, $660K/yearly.... or put in other terms, less than half than he'd save if he were playing in Tampa.

Sorry, not so much of an advantage. Even if you can break it out to even, you still got the snow tax.

Poor guy, doubt hed be able to even put a roof over his head for 15 million dollars

 

[HappyJoy]

If


If Dubas trades an unsigned player who is looking at offer sheets the only guarantee the other club has is for the compensation picks. Without Marner agreeing to sign with the new club he can still take his talents to another team.

Dubas can trade the rights to Marner, that's what I mean. Then it's obviously up to the new team to sign him. Trading the rights to a RFA doesn't require an ok from the player. As far as I understand it.

 

[CelticDruid]

SIMMONS: No matter what Marner signs for, it’s too much for cash-strapped Leafs

Feels like the 18 wheeler all over again, and I used to be a positive poster.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

I hope Marner signs a reasonable deal, Dubas wants to pay the Leafs players as much as he can, but is limited by the salary cap. Regardless of what he's paid, whether he's overpaid or underpaid or paid according to his value, Leaf fans know his value and his relative standing on the team, and that won't change, regardless of what he is paid.

The amount of money he will earn over the duration of his contract should be more than sufficient for him, e.g., if someone is paid $1 trillion dollars vs. $2 trillion dollars after a certain point, it doesn't make a difference. Even if he were to get paid significantly, there will always be someone who is getting paid more than him whether it is on the Leafs, the NHL, or some other professional league.

Given that Marner is from here, while Matthews and Nylander aren't from here, I hope Marner signs a team-friendly contract with the Leafs.

 

[yubbers]

Feels like the 18 wheeler all over again, and I used to be a positive poster.

We were so close to having something good. I want even excited for the playoffs last year cause I knew it would yield the same results.

The team somehow got progressively worse under Dubas. And it all started with the Willy debacle. And we continue to see the snowball effect most of us knew it would create. He did good with.
At least he did good with Kappy and AJ.

 

[CelticDruid]

We were so close to having something good. I want even excited for the playoffs last year cause I knew it would yield the same results.

The team somehow got progressively worse under Dubas. And it all started with the Willy debacle. And we continue to see the snowball effect most of us knew it would create. He did good with.
At least he did good with Kappy and AJ.

Perhaps he will surprise us all in the next week? I really hope so.

 

[Sypher04]

We were so close to having something good. I want even excited for the playoffs last year cause I knew it would yield the same results.

The team somehow got progressively worse under Dubas. And it all started with the Willy debacle. And we continue to see the snowball effect most of us knew it would create. He did good with.
At least he did good with Kappy and AJ.

What a load of defeatist bullshit