Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VII | The Saga Continues

[hfman]

You're right, there's no cap for management. But the point is we lost talent because of this GMs greed. He could have sat in the cut and keep the all star front office we had with Lou and Hunter. Instead he went out and pimped himself to other teams, begging for GM interviews. A couple teams showed interest and Shanny caved. That move cost us Lou and Hunter. The result? A step back in franchise progression. What did the GM gain? A few bucks? He would have been still part of the management group and still been the likely heir apparent.

It's all about greed with him. With marner it's just about getting paid the same as the guy he's proven so far to be better than. That's hardly unreasonable. And that's a situation created by the GM when he signed matthews.

you should call yourself CyNick Al

get it? CyNick-Al ?

 

[Lightsol]

Ferris has his hand so far up Dreger's ass he's almost a sock puppet at this point, I don't mind the kid fighting for every dollar but I'm seriously pissed off with his camp negotiating through the media

Do we even know that Ferris is talking to Dreger at all? Dreger does have a history of making shit up that started when Nonis was fired and he lost his only actual connection to the Leafs front office.

 

[Mickey Marner]

We can't sign anyone costing a 1st to an offersheet. We traded it with Marleau.

Yes, we can. If RFA compensation is multiple 1st round picks, you can use 2 of next 3 & 4 of next 5 picks if you're missing one.

 

[The CyNick]

A gun to his head? That only makes sense if you think he's the best GM in the league and we don't dare lose him. And if he actually is.... we were smart to keep him.

He did NOT force Shanny to fire anyone or "to lose multiple top end executives", that's for sure.

Have a little faith in Shanny. He's got his big-boy pants on.....



This, and it's just so obvious. We can pay Dubas whatever we feel like, and we can hire him a hundred assistants too.

Mitch has to fit within a cap. It was always going to be difficult, but WN and AM didn't give the team any sort of a break, so why should Marner? Other than fielding a team that could win, they have no reason to take less.

IMO the big 3 are making it really hard for us to put together a winning team now, and yeah, I kinda hold that against them. All of them.....

You have to understand the bigger picture at play. Shanny initially wanted him as GM. He let him make one trade and it was perceived by ownership that the GM needed training wheels. Hence Lou being brought in. Lou did a fantastic job, and everyone was happy.

Then he started looking for other jobs as he wasn't satisfied with being an AGM. A couple teams showed interest. If Shanny had let him walk, he looks bad to ownership because that was the guy he plucked out of obscurity and went to ownership and said this is the future GM of the team. So Shanny made his choice. In doing so, he knew two experienced vets like Lou and Hunter would not sit by and take direction from a kid with no relevant experience at the highest level.

The GM could have just waited his turn instead of forcing the issue. Everything was going great. Leafs were progressing under Lou and Hunters guidance. Meanwhile the GM was cutting his teeth with the Marlies, and building around the edges of the core Lou and Hunter handed him.

 

[Kiwi]

Two things, because I feel this is partially directed at me:

1) Marner >>>>>>>>>>> Nylander, and thus has granted more wiggle room / leway in my mind. He's earned it.
2) The Marner critics have been much worse than the Nylander critics. We didn't get to thread 5 in the Nylander contract threads until mid-September. We're already nearing thread 8 for Marner in JUNE.

If Mitch Marner decides he doesn't want to show up to training camp, I'll hope on that bandwagon. Its wayyyyy too soon to harp on Marner.

Nobody is even calling Marner stupid names yet like Melander and I have seen people defending Marner's negotiating tactics in the media and blaming it on Leafs management, which is bloody crazy

Marner is getting cut a ton of slack right now, any other player on this team leaks information about visiting other teams and soliciting offersheets this fan base would be going ******* crazy

Nylander never did anything even close to that and large portions of this fan base still hate him with the fire of a thousand suns

Marner hasn't earned any more right not to be critised that Nylander had, and right now his father, manager and Dreger gives people plenty of lane to critise him and deservedly so

 

[Beanzy]

Dreger's face is truly an irritating sight to behold.

 

[KPower]

Let him sign an offer sheet, match it and trade him to Columbus next summer.

 

[Faltorvo]

Yes, we can. If RFA compensation is multiple 1st round picks, you can use 2 of next 3 & 4 of next 5 picks if you're missing one.

ummm pardon me???? i need citations before i believe this horse shit

 

[Kiwi]

Do we even know that Ferris is talking to Dreger at all? Dreger does have a history of making **** up that started when Nonis was fired and he lost his only actual connection to the Leafs front office.

Somebody from Marner's camp is feeding Dreger information, he knows way to much and is being very specific about the Marner camps plans
Especially about visiting other teams in the UFA window, I seriously doubt Dreger thought that up on his own and saying Marner didn't turn down 11M on Buffallo radio

 

[613Leafer]

Dreger's face is truly an irritating sight to behold.

Hard to disagree with that these days.

 

[Cor]

I'm not defending anyone. Just asking for sources. If you say things, you should be able to support your claims. But people are speculating about speculation. And I'm speculating about people's speculation about speculation.

How do you want a source for Dreger being feed information? Dreger isn’t going to reveal his source.

It’s painfully obvious though. This isn’t a new thing.

 

[Mickey Marner]

ummm pardon me???? i need citations before i believe this horse ****

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Read up, buttercup.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nobody is even calling Marner stupid names yet like Melander and I have seen people defending Marner's negotiating tactics in the media and blaming it on Leafs management, which is bloody crazy

You haven't seen the Rich Marner or Mearner names yet?

Marner is getting cut a ton of slack right now, any other player on this team leaks information about visiting other teams and soliciting offersheets this fan base would be going ******* crazy

Nylander never did anything even close to that and large portions of this fan base still hate him with the fire of a thousand suns

Marner hasn't earned any more right not to be critised that Nylander had, and right now his father, manager and Dreger gives people plenty of lane to critise him and deservedly so

Again, Nylander isn't nearly as good as Marner, and the contract situation was completely different. Not sure why his name is being brought up in comparison.

 

[Dragao6]

You have to understand the bigger picture at play. Shanny initially wanted him as GM. He let him make one trade and it was perceived by ownership that the GM needed training wheels. Hence Lou being brought in. Lou did a fantastic job, and everyone was happy.

Then he started looking for other jobs as he wasn't satisfied with being an AGM. A couple teams showed interest. If Shanny had let him walk, he looks bad to ownership because that was the guy he plucked out of obscurity and went to ownership and said this is the future GM of the team. So Shanny made his choice. In doing so, he knew two experienced vets like Lou and Hunter would not sit by and take direction from a kid with no relevant experience at the highest level.

The GM could have just waited his turn instead of forcing the issue. Everything was going great. Leafs were progressing under Lou and Hunters guidance. Meanwhile the GM was cutting his teeth with the Marlies, and building around the edges of the core Lou and Hunter handed him.

Dubas is not in an easy spot. He doesnt just have 1 rfa to worry about but multiple in a difficult cap situation that Lou left him (marleau and zaits, brown, martin, etc). I think in 2 years time all these negative remarks to dubas are gonna change. Hasnt been perfect but im hoping hes smart enough that he is learning with his mistakes and wont do them again (caving on elite player extensions) but truth is if leafs win it will be on the back of the young kids. Elite guys get you over the hump, role players are huge but not many elite players out there, lots of options for role players and all dubas is doing is locking up our elite guys while making cap situation feasible.
Now marners feelings were hurt as he wants to be matthews but suck it up, stay strong Dubas!

 

[Faltorvo]

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Read up, buttercup.

excellent, i have no issue being taken to school if i learn something

i formally recant my horse shit

 

[Captain And Coke]

What does he want? 11x5 years?

 

[Mickey Marner]

excellent, i have no issue being taken to school if i learn something

i formally recant my horse ****

I'd like this post if troll stomper hadn't taken me to school several times recently.

 

[TheBigThree]

Yeah me too
Nylander never talked about other teams never showed any interest in other teams but he always wore Leafs gear during his holdout and stated multiple times that he wants to be in Toronto

And his only issue was that he didn't want to be traded. Doesn't even compare with how bad marner is.

 

[The CyNick]

Dubas is not in an easy spot. He doesnt just have 1 rfa to worry about but multiple in a difficult cap situation that Lou left him (marleau and zaits, brown, martin, etc). I think in 2 years time all these negative remarks to dubas are gonna change. Hasnt been perfect but im hoping hes smart enough that he is learning with his mistakes and wont do them again (caving on elite player extensions) but truth is if leafs win it will be on the back of the young kids. Elite guys get you over the hump, role players are huge but not many elite players out there, lots of options for role players and all dubas is doing is locking up our elite guys while making cap situation feasible.
Now marners feelings were hurt as he wants to be matthews but suck it up, stay strong Dubas!

And you think another GM would have lost the RFAs?

Any GM would have locked these guys up. The question is would a smart one have known to lock up marner for 8 years at $9M the summer before the season he's slated to ride shotgun with Tavares? I know what I would have done.

The media in Toronto have been playing this poor Dubas routine because he's got to manage the cap. But so does every team. This kid walked into the easiest situation in the history of hockey to get his name on the Cup. He was given Matthew's, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly and Andersen without doing a thing to contribute to acquiring them. All he had to do was not be terrible at negotiation and communication and he would have a solid core locked up for 7 years. Instead, he butchered literally every deal so far. And he keeps getting worse.

On top of putting us in as some well respected hockey people have termed "cap hell", he's cost us multiple 1st and multiple 2nd round picks. This will severely hamper our ability to cycle in young talent. Thank God we have Babcock pulling double duty in Europe recruiting free agents.

 

[TheBigThree]

Anyone else souring on the big 3?

Hard. Glad I've been a raptors fan longer and my only worry this offseason is Kawhi.

 

[Antropovsky]

So he produced 69 points with Bozak and JVR.... and increased his totals to 94 with an elite counterman?

Someone tell me why Marner deserves more than the below mentioned players? I think Dubas should sit tight and wait until these guys sign... and offer Marner the same range:

• Point: Center...Scored 40 goals, 93 points in 79 games and plays center... hockey analysts gush about his defensive play.
  
  
• Aho: (listed as a center?) 30 goals, 83 points playing for Carolina, with no elite linemate to speak of, and he would be enemy #1 for opposing teams top defenders. Carolina as a team scored 40 goals less than Toronto.

• Barzal: Center - Scored 85 points as a rookie, and didn't even play with Tavares. His numbers dropped this season, but his team scored 58 less goals than Toronto!
  
  
• Rantanen: 6'4 winger, 31 goals, and 87 points in 74 games, his team scored 26 less goals than Toronto.
  
  
  Maybe that is what everyone is doing though....? Waiting for the shoe to drop on one of these guys for a comparison.

 

[Walshy7]

You haven't seen the Rich Marner or Mearner names yet?



Again, Nylander isn't nearly as good as Marner, and the contract situation was completely different. Not sure why his name is being brought up in comparison.

Oh come on I sarcastically called him rich marner as a joke with another poster. Don’t try and use that as proof, very disingenuous man. In the same posts I’ve typed rich marner you will also see I typed childish nickname.

 

[JamieG19]

You're right, there's no cap for management. But the point is we lost talent because of this GMs greed. He could have sat in the cut and keep the all star front office we had with Lou and Hunter. Instead he went out and pimped himself to other teams, begging for GM interviews. A couple teams showed interest and Shanny caved. That move cost us Lou and Hunter. The result? A step back in franchise progression. What did the GM gain? A few bucks? He would have been still part of the management group and still been the likely heir apparent.

It's all about greed with him. With marner it's just about getting paid the same as the guy he's proven so far to be better than. That's hardly unreasonable. And that's a situation created by the GM when he signed matthews.

Oh yeah, he shouldn't have signed Matthews....I'm sure you would be praising Dubas for not signing Matthews.

Another one of these "He should have just signed him for 7 Million, I don't know why he didn't think to do that!!!!"....

Seriously speaking, he had no choice with Auston. He could have went through the same thing as they did with Nylander. Matthews wasn't going to sign for less. All in all it's a good deal to get him at that number. It wasn't going to be lower.

I imagine Marner will be the same or almost the same. Not much Dubas can do about it. The question is do you want Marner on the team or not?

I don't think some fans realize that to get a player to sign for 3 million less than someone comparable, it takes that player and the agent actually agreeing to do it. Not happening with the Marner camp and his over-bearing Dad.

 

[JerseyMike34]

Hopefully Dubas meets with Panarin -who won't cost any picks- and Tkachuk -who could likely be had for two 1sts + one 2nd comp- this week. I loathe to lose Marner, but his camp is holding firm on short-term four 1st comp, might as well try to profit off of it.

The Leafs do not have their own 2020 1st round pick, and would not be able to make an offer sheet.

 

[nuck]

What does he want? 11x5 years?

No reliable info but a lot of "insider" speculation. There is no point in getting too worked up about it when we really know so little. The real number will come out at some point and half the people on the board are probably going to be in disbelief. We tend to seize on the worst case scenario, and the stench of the Nylander negotiation has made a lot of us pretty touchy. Only rumors so far.