Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Evilhomer]

We aren't; just an example of the type of players you could get for the AAV I listed. Did you not read the post?

But that makes no sense. All you can deal with is players who will be available in free agency, because that is who will be available if Marner leaves.

 

[mclaren55]

For reference where do the other two sit ?

Matthews 49th, Nylander 59th (p/gp). Which also doesn't justify their contracts, which I stated earlier in this thread. None of our core can justify their contracts in the context of the playoffs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

The only series win we have in the past two decades is thanks to the guy we’re trying to run out of town here

Even if you believe that’s the case, what about the series after they won that round, or last year, or the previous years?

When NHL players tell us they try to push players out of a series and we watch Marner over the years it is the only knock against him. And it’s a cause for concern. Many thought after last year he was done in Toronto, but the Leafs kept him in hopes that a new coach can get the best out of him in the playoffs . If he gets pushed out again this year…….then what?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

The only series win we have in the past two decades is thanks to the guy we’re trying to run out of town here

Well that's one way of looking at it, here's another:

First 86 games of the season, Marner produces at a ~100 point pace.
From game 87 onwards, Marner produces at a ~40 point pace.

Maybe cool it with the melodrama ("run out of town"). This isn't personal, we just want a team that doesn't wither away when the going gets tough.

 

[ToneDog]

Got to watch out for those rumors. We don't know for sure what he would sign for today or if any offer from the club is on the table. They don't have to offer more than they want to pay though. This is not a 1 star team that will collapse if they have to spend $13M somewhere else. I am good whatever happens.

When Kyper came out and said Draisaitl money, I called him a Marner shill. Yesterday he joked that he had lunch with Ferris and he received tweets asking how much Ferris was paying him. Today I think Kyper knows more than he is letting on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We’ve been hearing that Marner’s camp has received the offer but they’ve been the ones to say let’s wait and see. So I’m sure it’s more about how he and the team does in the playoffs. If they shit the bed, why would Marner even want to stay? Or if he lights it up, he has the leafs by the balls. It’s more advantageous for Marner to wait realistically. If anything the team probably wants the deal done now for two reasons.

More to the point, if Marner shits the bed in the playoffs, why would we want to commit to him again?

 

[ToneDog]

Even if you believe that’s the case, what about the series after they won that round, or last year, or the previous years?

When NHL players tell us they try to push players out of a series and we watch Marner over the years it is the only knock against him. And it’s a cause for concern. Many thought after last year he was done in Toronto, but the Leafs kept him in hopes that a new coach can get the best out of him in the playoffs . If he gets pushed out again this year…….then what?

It's TC Puck's turn to be replaced.

 

[mclaren55]

I understand why you amplified that play. You think it exemplifies an issue, but the only issue is people thinking it's an issue. Marner doesn't avoid contact. When necessary, he takes hits to make plays, and engages physically himself. He just doesn't get crushed in bad positions for no reason, and doesn't generally default to using physicality to achieve goals that can be achieved through other equal or better options. And there's nothing wrong with that. Many great players won cups the same way. It's called playing to your strengths.

He has some of the best edgework and agility in the league, regular season and playoffs, and while everybody makes mistakes, he doesn't make an abnormal number of "poor plays". He is tasked with some of our most difficult situations and assignments in all game situations, and people don't seem to understand that he is our playmaker, and he is tasked with creating opportunities. People don't seem to understand that there is some inherent risk that goes hand in hand with generating opportunities, especially in the situations we have so often found ourselves in the playoffs - down early and having to push for offense against great teams getting world class goaltending. A well-supported attempt at chance generation with a reasonable level of risk not working out is often mistaken for a "poor play", but something not working out in that instance does not automatically make a play poor. Kucherov is an example of a player that has gotten many of the same criticisms, and yet many treat him like a playoff god. He's far from the only one.

Marner creates space for both himself and his teammates.

Nylander engages in contact even less than Marner, and is a worse player than Marner in the playoffs.

No I don't. I just look at the actual reasons and context behind the exits, and how big the discrepancy actually was, instead of making blind assertions based exclusively on series outcome, and mistaking any correlation for causation. Our losses are disappointing, but they have been wildly overblown by people giving in to emotion over facts and reason. In fact, emotion based decisions over the past two years have just set this team backwards, and you're still advocating for one that would likely put the final nail in the coffin. Change is not inherently good.

And while wins and losses are not just "luck", "luck" and things outside of our control do play a big part in hockey, especially in small samples. Anybody in the game will say the same thing. That's why process is often emphasized over outcomes. Ironically, during the intermission last night, they interviewed Cooper, and they asked him: "If you had to give just one formula that you think makes a winning Stanley Cup team, what would it be?" His answer? " You have to go injury free. That's a big big part of it. You need to have luck on your side".

He also talked about the tiny margins. "Round one is complete chaos. I look back at the times when, you know, we're in a 5OT game against Columbus, in round 1 game 1, and we just lost to them the year before. We don't score that goal, I don't know if we'd even get out of that round."

That's why nobody does what you're advocating for. The margins are small, and one year does not define the next.

Who cares? They still lost. Sure, I love an extra couple weeks of enjoying hockey, but we still failed the objective of the playoffs. You don't get a consolation prize. You don't get to carry over the series wins to next year. 1 team wins, and the rest is just noise that all gets wiped away. As Pastrnak said in the prime series, "it doesn't matter at the end, you know? If you don't get the cup, it doesn't matter who moves on from the first round".

We had decades of having garbage teams. Even the few better years sprinkled in came with a very limited chance at a cup. I'm not willing to throw away the best chance we've had in a half century because some people are impatient and don't understand the complexities of hockey and the impacting factors to winning a cup in a 32 team, heavy parity league.

Nope.

Not only have you provided zero reasoning or better alternative, but they won't even make 40+% of our cap in as little as like 1 year.

Our best chance at winning a cup in the last 40 years was in the 90's, and then again in the early 2000's. You'll probably disagree with me there as well. Luck factored into those series as well if you want to look at it like that.

I'm advocating for getting more depth and not being so top-heavy in our line-up. It could be any of the core 4 making 11+M that goes, just so happens that one is asking for a substantial raise based on regular season victories, so that's the one I suggested moving on from.

If you think re-signing the same guys that haven't gotten it done for almost a decade, on their third coach, are the ones to get it done then so be it. I don't, simple as that. Guess we will see what management does, and see what they do this playoffs. I hope Marner, Matthews, and Nylander can all turn it on this year and live up to their contracts. Having a career high of 99 points as a winger shouldn't get you a top 3-5 contract in the league, but that's just me.

But that makes no sense. All you can deal with is players who will be available in free agency, because that is who will be available if Marner leaves.

Bennett+Ekblad+Rantanen. However I can't quantify what their contracts would be, maybe Dekes can run a model and see what kind of AAV they would be at to disprove this as an option.

 

[mclaren55]

Just for you Dekes;

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

[td]

45-24-10-3​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)​

[/td]​

[td]

44-28-7-3​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

43-25-10-4​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

37-29-11-5​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)​

[/td]​

[td]

45-27-7-3​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)​

[/td]​

[td]

45-30-7​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)​

[/td]​

1994

1993

[td]

43-29-12​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

44-29-11​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)​

[/td]​

Current Leafs:

2024
2023
2022
2021
2020
2019
2018
2017

[td]

46-26-10​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

50-21-11​

[/td][td]

Lost Conference Semi-Finals (Won 1 Round)​

[/td]​

[td]

54-21-7​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

35-14-7​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

36-25-9​

[/td][td]

Lost Qualifying Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

46-28-8​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

49-26-7​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

[td]

40-27-15​

[/td][td]

Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)​

[/td]​

That's YOUR "Best Chance" eh?

 

[Nineteen67]

Our best chance at winning a cup in the last 40 years was in the 90's, and then again in the early 2000's. You'll probably disagree with me there as well. Luck factored into those series as well if you want to look at it like that.

I'm advocating for getting more depth and not being so top-heavy in our line-up. It could be any of the core 4 making 11+M that goes, just so happens that one is asking for a substantial raise based on regular season victories, so that's the one I suggested moving on from.

If you think re-signing the same guys that haven't gotten it done for almost a decade, on their third coach, are the ones to get it done then so be it. I don't, simple as that. Guess we will see what management does, and see what they do this playoffs. I hope Marner, Matthews, and Nylander can all turn it on this year and live up to their contracts. Having a career high of 99 points as a winger shouldn't get you a top 3-5 contract in the league, but that's just me.


Bennett+Ekblad+Rantanen. However I can't quantify what their contracts would be, maybe Dekes can run a model and see what kind of AAV they would be at to disprove this as an option.

93 was the best chance they’ve had. Gilmour stepped up those yrs and was incredible to watch and cheer for. But they were beaten because another guy stepped up and led his team to victory. That’s what star players do.

If you have players that are paid like stars and they dont step up in the playoffs, what do you do? Management is giving them another chance and I have no idea what they’ll do with that chance or what management will do regardless of how they perform.

 

[Evilhomer]

Bennett+Ekblad+Rantanen. However I can't quantify what their contracts would be, maybe Dekes can run a model and see what kind of AAV they would be at to disprove this as an option.

So Marner leaves, and you are going to use that $13 million to sign all of Bennett, Ekblad and Raantanen? Do I have that right?

 

[mclaren55]

So Marner leaves, and you are going to use that $13 million to sign all of Bennett, Ekblad and Raantanen? Do I have that right?

No, you don't, but I'm not going to rehash my posts because you lack reading comprehension.

 

[Evilhomer]

No, you don't, but I'm not going to rehash my posts because you lack reading comprehension.

I get it. You wanted to trade him in prior years. I don't actually disagree with you on that. But we also know that it's too late for that, so all you are left with is signing him or letter him walk. If it's the latter, then all he can be replaced with is whoever is available in free agency, unless you are trading other significant pieces to replace Marner. If it's UFA, then take a look at what is out there. Could it be Bennett and Ekblad? Maybe those numbers could work, but Leafs fans will hate Ekblad about 7 minutes into his first pre-season game here.

I'm not trying to be a dick - I'm just looking at the options that are available as we sit here today. The reality is that they aren't great. It's why resigning Marner is inevitable, whether it ends up being the right decision or not.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner broke a notable franchise record on Monday two helpers on Knies goals, giving him 123 games with multiple assists. Borje Salming’s mark of 122 had stood since 1989. Only McDavid (183), Nathan MacKinnon (133) and Nikita Kucherov (130) have had more since Marner came in the NHL.

 

[mclaren55]

I get it. You wanted to trade him in prior years. I don't actually disagree with you on that. But we also know that it's too late for that, so all you are left with is signing him or letter him walk. If it's the latter, then all he can be replaced with is whoever is available in free agency, unless you are trading other significant pieces to replace Marner. If it's UFA, then take a look at what is out there. Could it be Bennett and Ekblad? Maybe those numbers could work, but Leafs fans will hate Ekblad about 7 minutes into his first pre-season game here.

I'm not trying to be a dick - I'm just looking at the options that are available as we sit here today. The reality is that they aren't great. It's why resigning Marner is inevitable, whether it ends up being the right decision or not.

Fair enough; I agree with most of your assessment. I believe we should let both JT (unless he signs a 3 year 15m contract) and Marner go (whether that's a trade at the deadline, or saying bye via UFA) and replace them with players who have performed in the post season. Bennett and Raantanen are both guys like that, as is Ekblad. So with the 25-30M in free cap space we move on from the guys that haven't gotten it done for us and try a new team composition. With that much cap we can probably sign all three plus another complimentary 3rd liner F/2nd line D. That's four players potentially who all have better playoff numbers than regular season numbers. Meaning they all excel in the playoffs compared to our current group, and I think that would be a huge factor for us going deeper in the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

I get it. You wanted to trade him in prior years. I don't actually disagree with you on that. But we also know that it's too late for that, so all you are left with is signing him or letter him walk. If it's the latter, then all he can be replaced with is whoever is available in free agency, unless you are trading other significant pieces to replace Marner. If it's UFA, then take a look at what is out there. Could it be Bennett and Ekblad? Maybe those numbers could work, but Leafs fans will hate Ekblad about 7 minutes into his first pre-season game here.

I'm not trying to be a dick - I'm just looking at the options that are available as we sit here today. The reality is that they aren't great. It's why resigning Marner is inevitable, whether it ends up being the right decision or not.

So let's keep doing the same and hope we get different results? I don't have to tell you what that is called unless you are looking for higher jersey sales.

Fair enough; I agree with most of your assessment. I believe we should let both JT (unless he signs a 3 year 15m contract) and Marner go (whether that's a trade at the deadline, or saying bye via UFA) and replace them with players who have performed in the post season. Bennett and Raantanen are both guys like that, as is Ekblad. So with the 25-30M in free cap space we move on from the guys that haven't gotten it done for us and try a new team composition. With that much cap we can probably sign all three plus another complimentary 3rd liner F/2nd line D. That's four players potentially who all have better playoff numbers than regular season numbers. Meaning they all excel in the playoffs compared to our current group, and I think that would be a huge factor for us going deeper in the playoffs.

You have to move off Rielly, Tavares and Marner in order to have enough money for Ranta, Ekblad and Bennett. That would sure change the make up of this team in a good way. Will never happen.

 

[mclaren55]

You guys want a really crazy stat? These are the only teams with fewer series wins than us since Marner, Matthews, and Nylander have been our core;

Minnesota
LA
Buffalo
Detroit

All tied with 0 series wins in the last decade. That's an embarrassing list to be a part of when we have 4 of the highest paid NHL players of all time. Lets just keep giving them raises though, seems to be working out well.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander engages in contact even less than Marner, and is a worse player than Marner in the playoffs.

Not true, and even less so in the playoffs.

So far this season Willy has taken 33 hits to Mitch's 29, in appreciabley less ice time.

Last playoffs, in under 87 minutes, Willy delivered 5 hits and took 8. Mitch, in over 148 minutes, delivered 6 and took 12.

 

[Hallonbroder]

I understand why you amplified that play. You think it exemplifies an issue, but the only issue is people thinking it's an issue. Marner doesn't avoid contact. When necessary, he takes hits to make plays, and engages physically himself. He just doesn't get crushed in bad positions for no reason, and doesn't generally default to using physicality to achieve goals that can be achieved through other equal or better options. And there's nothing wrong with that. Many great players won cups the same way. It's called playing to your strengths.

He has some of the best edgework and agility in the league, regular season and playoffs, and while everybody makes mistakes, he doesn't make an abnormal number of "poor plays". He is tasked with some of our most difficult situations and assignments in all game situations, and people don't seem to understand that he is our playmaker, and he is tasked with creating opportunities. People don't seem to understand that there is some inherent risk that goes hand in hand with generating opportunities, especially in the situations we have so often found ourselves in the playoffs - down early and having to push for offense against great teams getting world class goaltending. A well-supported attempt at chance generation with a reasonable level of risk not working out is often mistaken for a "poor play", but something not working out in that instance does not automatically make a play poor. Kucherov is an example of a player that has gotten many of the same criticisms, and yet many treat him like a playoff god. He's far from the only one.

Marner creates space for both himself and his teammates.

Nylander engages in contact even less than Marner, and is a worse player than Marner in the playoffs.

No I don't. I just look at the actual reasons and context behind the exits, and how big the discrepancy actually was, instead of making blind assertions based exclusively on series outcome, and mistaking any correlation for causation. Our losses are disappointing, but they have been wildly overblown by people giving in to emotion over facts and reason. In fact, emotion based decisions over the past two years have just set this team backwards, and you're still advocating for one that would likely put the final nail in the coffin. Change is not inherently good.

And while wins and losses are not just "luck", "luck" and things outside of our control do play a big part in hockey, especially in small samples. Anybody in the game will say the same thing. That's why process is often emphasized over outcomes. Ironically, during the intermission last night, they interviewed Cooper, and they asked him: "If you had to give just one formula that you think makes a winning Stanley Cup team, what would it be?" His answer? " You have to go injury free. That's a big big part of it. You need to have luck on your side".

He also talked about the tiny margins. "Round one is complete chaos. I look back at the times when, you know, we're in a 5OT game against Columbus, in round 1 game 1, and we just lost to them the year before. We don't score that goal, I don't know if we'd even get out of that round."

That's why nobody does what you're advocating for. The margins are small, and one year does not define the next.

Who cares? They still lost. Sure, I love an extra couple weeks of enjoying hockey, but we still failed the objective of the playoffs. You don't get a consolation prize. You don't get to carry over the series wins to next year. 1 team wins, and the rest is just noise that all gets wiped away. As Pastrnak said in the prime series, "it doesn't matter at the end, you know? If you don't get the cup, it doesn't matter who moves on from the first round".

We had decades of having garbage teams. Even the few better years sprinkled in came with a very limited chance at a cup. I'm not willing to throw away the best chance we've had in a half century because some people are impatient and don't understand the complexities of hockey and the impacting factors to winning a cup in a 32 team, heavy parity league.

Nope.

Not only have you provided zero reasoning or better alternative, but they won't even make 40+% of our cap in as little as like 1 year.

Wow. What a debater

 

[Dekes For Days]

Our best chance at winning a cup in the last 40 years was in the 90's, and then again in the early 2000's.

Time and nostalgia has let you forget the frustrations and limitations of those years, while your perception of recent years are tainted by outcome and fresh emotion. 2021, 2022, and 2023 is probably the best we've been relative to the league since 1967. And while we've made some stupid knee-jerk decisions that have set us backwards since, the combination of the pieces we have and the declining strength of the division/conference means another good opportunity this year.

I'm advocating for getting more depth and not being so top-heavy in our line-up.

You're actually advocating for more expensive depth. That doesn't automatically mean better. Most teams win cups by having efficient depth, not expensive depth, and mid-tier depth UFAs are, on average, the worst value contracts that exist. In theory, having better depth is great, but getting it at the expense of your best players just leaves your team worse off.

If you have three $20 bills, and you trade one $20 bill for three $5s, you may have more pieces of currency, but you have less money. Similarly, if you replace Marner and cheaper depth pieces with more expensive depth pieces, you're likely getting a net negative impact. I don't think people realise how much Marner does that would need replacing.

It could be any of the core 4 making 11+M that goes, just so happens that one is asking for a substantial raise based on regular season victories, so that's the one I suggested moving on from.

The most substantial raise was Nylander, and of the 3 getting raises, he's the worst in both the regular season and playoffs.

Having a career high of 99 points as a winger shouldn't get you a top 3-5 contract in the league, but that's just me.

Peak raw points isn't all that relevant, especially when it's so misleading. Over the past half-decade, Marner is 5th in the league in points and points per game, without the production advantages of many around him. 4th in 5v5 points per 60 and 6th in PP points per 60. Elite offensively and defensively while playing the toughest minutes in all game states and situations. Every player like that gets paid. And if you bothered to look beyond just exclusively raw surface production in comparison to select all-time play-off production leaders experiencing wildly different team situations, you'd realize he's pretty darn good in the playoffs too.

The fact that some people don't appreciate him is just mind boggling.

 

[francis246]

Our best chance at winning a cup in the last 40 years was in the 90's, and then again in the early 2000's. You'll probably disagree with me there as well. Luck factored into those series as well if you want to look at it like that.

I'm advocating for getting more depth and not being so top-heavy in our line-up. It could be any of the core 4 making 11+M that goes, just so happens that one is asking for a substantial raise based on regular season victories, so that's the one I suggested moving on from.

If you think re-signing the same guys that haven't gotten it done for almost a decade, on their third coach, are the ones to get it done then so be it. I don't, simple as that. Guess we will see what management does, and see what they do this playoffs. I hope Marner, Matthews, and Nylander can all turn it on this year and live up to their contracts. Having a career high of 99 points as a winger shouldn't get you a top 3-5 contract in the league, but that's just me.


Bennett+Ekblad+Rantanen. However I can't quantify what their contracts would be, maybe Dekes can run a model and see what kind of AAV they would be at to disprove this as an option.

Lmfao you think you’re getting those three players at a combined 20 million? Think again. Ekblad is getting 8-9, Rantanen 13+, Bennett 7+. Do the math.

 

[leafs in five]

You guys want a really crazy stat?

No

 

[mclaren55]

Time and nostalgia has let you forget the frustrations and limitations of those years, while your perception of recent years are tainted by outcome and fresh emotion. 2021, 2022, and 2023 is probably the best we've been relative to the league since 1967. And while we've made some stupid knee-jerk decisions that have set us backwards since, the combination of the pieces we have and the declining strength of the division/conference means another good opportunity this year.

You're actually advocating for more expensive depth. That doesn't automatically mean better. Most teams win cups by having efficient depth, not expensive depth, and mid-tier depth UFAs are, on average, the worst value contracts that exist. In theory, having better depth is great, but getting it at the expense of your best players just leaves your team worse off.

If you have three $20 bills, and you trade one $20 bill for three $5s, you may have more pieces of currency, but you have less money. Similarly, if you replace Marner and cheaper depth pieces with more expensive depth pieces, you're likely getting a net negative impact. I don't think people realise how much Marner does that would need replacing.

The most substantial raise was Nylander, and of the 3 getting raises, he's the worst in both the regular season and playoffs.

Peak raw points isn't all that relevant, especially when it's so misleading. Over the past half-decade, Marner is 5th in the league in points and points per game, without the production advantages of many around him. 4th in 5v5 points per 60 and 6th in PP points per 60. Elite offensively and defensively while playing the toughest minutes in all game states and situations. Every player like that gets paid. And if you bothered to look beyond just exclusively raw surface production in comparison to select all-time play-off production leaders experiencing wildly different team situations, you'd realize he's pretty darn good in the playoffs too.

The fact that some people don't appreciate him is just mind boggling.

Maybe time has shifted your memory of how good our team was with Sundin, Tucker, Roberts, Leech?

How have we been "set back" exactly? We've had the exact same results under Tre that we had under Dubas and Lou. Seems like the team performs the exact same way regardless of who our GM and Coach is, based on results.

So you don't think Rantanen would be a better addition to the team than Marner? Have you seen his playoff performances? He is an absolute animal out there and I would take him over Marner 10/10 times.

I don't think the few players I listed to go after are $5 bills though, I believe if we get rid of the $20 (I assume that's Marner+JT), we will end up with $25 (Ekblad, Bennett, Rantanen). Your analogy only works if you are discounting the players I listed, and why would you do that when they've all done more than either of ours in the playoffs? Especially Rantanen.

Nylander got the most substantial raise because he had the most substantial discount in his first signing. He outperformed that contract over the course of it, Marner hasn't. What production advantages hasn't he had? He plays with the best goal scorer of the modern era and you want me to believe he is somehow hindered by this? What?

Maybe if you looked at how other teams are constructed you would see they aren't so top heavy. Which allows them to have PK specialists, better goal tending, and more defensive depth so they don't have to rely on their stars to work in all situations. That way their stars can focus on what they are paid for, which is typically generating offense. Your own argument is a testament to how this teams composition isn't correct. We wear out our stars in minutes they shouldn't be playing, and they can't show up when it matters because they don't have enough left in the tank.

Every top line player in the league plays against the top competition, so I fail to see your point. You don't think Tkachuk, MacKinnon, Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, etc., play against opposing teams top lines in all kinds of situations?

By the way, Marner is one of my favourite players in the league, I just don't put players above the team I cheer for. It would suck to see him go, but what options do we have other than to perpetually play it back?

Look, I get it and you think that Tre has ruined our chances based on what, I don't know. That our core is our best chance at getting a championship even though they've proved otherwise the past 8 years. Marner is our best player and getting rid of him would be a giant step backwards, even though objectively Matthews is our best. You just keep trying to defend a single player here without offering any alternative for the team other than re-signing and hoping. What changes would you make going forward? I've listed the ones I would and you discredit them, so tell me what you would do.

Lmfao you think you’re getting those three players at a combined 20 million? Think again. Ekblad is getting 8-9, Rantanen 13+, Bennett 7+. Do the math.

Where did I say 20M? Does no one know how to read anymore? I said 25-30M in cap space, which by your own admission means we could sign them. Thanks for coming out, and doing the math. *edited because I'm trying to be nice* Advanced mathematics are something I deal with daily, no need to be rude.

 

[DarkKnight]

Even 14x7 => 12.25x8

We have a huge advantage with the 8th year + deferred salary option. I think a deal can be done fairly..fairly easy as long as both sides want it.

A deal starting at 12 should be the goal (for me, if he does well in the playoffs)

He's not signing for less cap percentage. If it's 97 mil, then 13 mil is the same cap percentage as present. The good news is cap goes to 105 next year after as floated, it's already down to 12.4 as opposed to present 13.4. The added year is a factor that could make free agency slightest less attractive, again that's why I always see 13ish as a number and I'm fine with it, so long as the cap does rise we will be good. With JT off the books, I don't see how 3 big contracts can't work either.

 

[nuck]

Our best chance at winning a cup in the last 40 years was in the 90's, and then again in the early 2000's. You'll probably disagree with me there as well. Luck factored into those series as well if you want to look at it like that.

I'm advocating for getting more depth and not being so top-heavy in our line-up. It could be any of the core 4 making 11+M that goes, just so happens that one is asking for a substantial raise based on regular season victories, so that's the one I suggested moving on from.

If you think re-signing the same guys that haven't gotten it done for almost a decade, on their third coach, are the ones to get it done then so be it. I don't, simple as that. Guess we will see what management does, and see what they do this playoffs. I hope Marner, Matthews, and Nylander can all turn it on this year and live up to their contracts. Having a career high of 99 points as a winger shouldn't get you a top 3-5 contract in the league, but that's just me.


Bennett+Ekblad+Rantanen. However I can't quantify what their contracts would be, maybe Dekes can run a model and see what kind of AAV they would be at to disprove this as an option.

I don't see Ranta getting to UFA but the Leafs might have a pretty good shot at Ek with Marners cap space. I am under the impression its him OR Bennett that FLA can afford to keep and they like Bennett more. It isn't worth stressing over under we know more. People are just posting fear or fantasy scenarios based on the click bait being chummed out there. Mitch is here till after the playoffs no matter what.