Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[leafs in five]

You forgot the sarcasm emoji.

That is precisely the brilliance of the Marner thread's newest star

 

[Maple Leaf]

Leafs should acquire JT Miller so he can argue with soft Marner and then trade marner

 

[Antropovsky]

[

Leafs should acquire JT Miller so he can argue with soft Marner and then trade marner

This is the #1 reason I hope the Leafs move on from Marner. Or he needs a big discount on what he's apparently asking for. He just doesn't have "it." He doesn't seem to "compete" enough, as Berube might say. Sure, he works hard, but he probably has the least amount of competitive spirit among top players in the game.

Contrast that with others over last couple weeks:
- McDavid just got a 5-minute penalty for cross-checking someone in the face.

- Kucherov, ran Tkachuk and got a questionable knee-on-knee penalty.

- MacKinnon was in a fight a couple of weeks ago.

- I just watched Hagel and Aho
jawing at each other from their benches.

Marner won't even make eye contact with an opponent. He just chases around refs complaining about non calls.

 

[ToneDog]

[

This is the #1 reason I hope the Leafs move on from Marner. Or he needs a big discount on what he's apparently asking for. He just doesn't have "it." He doesn't seem to "compete" enough, as Berube might say. Sure, he works hard, but he probably has the least amount of competitive spirit among top players in the game.

Contrast that with others over last couple weeks:
- McDavid just got a 5-minute penalty for cross-checking someone in the face.

- Kucherov, ran Tkachuk and got a questionable knee-on-knee penalty.

- MacKinnon was in a fight a couple of weeks ago.

- I just watched Hagel and Aho
jawing at each other from their benches.

Marner won't even make eye contact with an opponent. He just chases around refs complaining about non calls.

I've seen him bump into players in an attempt to finish his checks this year. Progress.

Hard pass at $13m. He's not worth 10 Bobby McManns.

 

[francis246]

[

This is the #1 reason I hope the Leafs move on from Marner. Or he needs a big discount on what he's apparently asking for. He just doesn't have "it." He doesn't seem to "compete" enough, as Berube might say. Sure, he works hard, but he probably has the least amount of competitive spirit among top players in the game.

Contrast that with others over last couple weeks:
- McDavid just got a 5-minute penalty for cross-checking someone in the face.

- Kucherov, ran Tkachuk and got a questionable knee-on-knee penalty.

- MacKinnon was in a fight a couple of weeks ago.

- I just watched Hagel and Aho
jawing at each other from their benches.

Marner won't even make eye contact with an opponent. He just chases around refs complaining about non calls.

Let’s trade Marner! He doesn’t make enough dumb ass plays that might get him suspended.

You honestly can’t make it up. I get your point and agree to a a certain extent but your justifications and examples are horrendous. All those plays you listed are dumb and didn’t help any of those teams and put those players at risk of missing games for their team either through suspension or potential injury.

 

[ToneDog]

Let’s trade Marner! He doesn’t make enough dumb ass plays that might get him suspended.

You honestly can’t make it up. I get your point and agree to a a certain extent but your justifications and examples are horrendous. All those plays you listed are dumb and didn’t help any of those teams and put those players at risk of missing games for their team either through suspension or potential injury.

So what McDavid misses a game in January (other than the fans who paid to see him that game). He sent the league a loud and clear message. Any NHLer will tell you that. It might help Marner's rep some and might gain him some space in the playoffs. Having said that, he's the last of the 3 amigos I see doing that. Better to have a reputation of whining to the refs.

 

[francis246]

So what McDavid misses a game in January (other than the fans who paid to see him that game). He sent the league a loud and clear message. Any NHL will tell you that. It might help Marner's rep some and might gain him some space in the playoffs. Having said that, he's the last of the 3 amigos I see doing that. He'd rather have a reputation for whining to the refs.

McDavid is getting 2 games or more.

What McDavid did was stupid as hell and dangerous. He didn’t send anything to the league. McDavid is still going to be targeted because he’s the best player. He didn’t scare anyone into leaving him alone. It’s dumb and undisciplined. How did Matthews cross checking Dahlin help him? Jamie Benn still buried him and injured him after that. Matthews still gets targeted.

They are literally talking about it on Overdrive right now. While they like McDavid standing up for himself, They all agreed the McDavid cross check would not scare anyone in the league.

 

[ToneDog]

McDavid is getting 2 games or more.

What McDavid did was stupid as hell and dangerous. He didn’t send anything to the league. McDavid is still going to be targeted because he’s the best player. It’s dumb and undisciplined. How did Matthews cross checking Dahlin help him? Jamie Benn still buried him and injured him after that. Matthews still gets targeted.

Yes that is because Matty has never since backed that up. Skated away from Thompson and watched Rielly try to send the message then got a crosscheck in the back that kept him out a few games. Yes, McDavid will always be targeted but that will help keep some of the flies off if he continues to push back. I know you won't agree but hockey is an aggressive game and you have to do what is needed when it is needed.

 

[francis246]

Yes that is because Matty has never since backed that up. Skated away from Thompson and watched Rielly try to send the message then got a crosscheck in the back that kept him out a few games. Yes, McDavid will always be targeted but that will help keep some of the flies off if he continues to push back. I know you won't agree but the hockey is an aggressive game and you have to do what is needed when it is needed.

Don’t patronize. I love the physicality in hockey and I like that McDavid showed some balls. But let’s not act like what he did is anything but dumb. We actually have a poster advocating for players doing knee on knees! Being physical doesn’t = making dangerous plays

 

[ToneDog]

Don’t patronize. I love the physicality in hockey and I like that McDavid showed some balls. But let’s not act like what he did is anything but dumb. We actually have a poster advocating for players doing knee on knees! Being physical doesn’t = making dangerous plays

No, not advocating knee on knees or dangerous plays but star players need to push back or they will be bullied. See Matt Tkachuk on Mitch Marner. Game #4, Leafs vs Panthers.

I was against Rielly doing what he did to Grieg but there were many on this board that applauded the hit (justly or unjustly) and it was after the play for what? He embarrassed the Leafs.

 

[GoonieFace]

Don’t patronize. I love the physicality in hockey and I like that McDavid showed some balls. But let’s not act like what he did is anything but dumb. We actually have a poster advocating for players doing knee on knees! Being physical doesn’t = making dangerous plays

Yeah cross checking a guy in the head is a wuss move. No room for stick work in the game.

 

[francis246]

No, not advocating knee on knees or dangerous plays but star players need to push back or they will be bullied. See Matt Tkachuk on Mitch Marner. Game #4, Leafs vs Panthers.

I was against Rielly doing what he did to Grieg but there were many on this board that applauded the hit (justly or unjustly) and it was after the play for what? He embarrassed the Leafs.

Yeah I fully agree with you on both points but Antro is pointing to 3 or 4 dangerous plays as justification for his reasoning to trade Marner. Makes no sense, we want to trade a guy cause he doesn’t get mad and knee on knee a player? Fully confusing compete with loss of temperament.

Totally agree would love to see some fight / piss and vinegar from Marner specifically but I don’t want him to make boneheaded plays. Stand up for yourself to help create separation but be smart about it.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah cross checking a guy in the head is a wuss move. No room for stick work in the game.

Yeah never want to see somebody hurt, especially with a cheapshot. I am professing pushing back to build a reputation that you will not accept some of the shit you get and if it takes a suspension, consider it an investment. Players have to have some fear that they will be held accountable for their actions. Like I said, look at Tkachuk trying to bully Marner. You think MT is afraid to try the same bs the next time he finds it useful?

 

[Antropovsky]

So what McDavid misses a game in January (other than the fans who paid to see him that game). He sent the league a loud and clear message. Any NHLer will tell you that. It might help Marner's rep some and might gain him some space in the playoffs. Having said that, he's the last of the 3 amigos I see doing that. Better to have a reputation of whining to the refs.

Was Aho and Hagel suspended for jawing at eachother?

Was Mackinnon suspended for his fight?

Was Kucherov suspended for his big hit attempt that turned into knee on knee? (No) I noticed that on X someone called Kucherov the most low key dirty player in the league.

The point isn't dirty play, it's the emotion of the battles boiling over for these leaders. They are doing these things because they are battling.

Marner doesnt battle, he never is emotionally invested in winning, its not as important to him as it is to others. He skates away from any sort of physicality or aggressiveness. When games get physical, he generally disappears because of his fear of battles.

The more I watch playoff replays, the more him losing battles is evident.

Here is one I recently noticed. Boston must win game, and Marner could've easily finished this check, but he didn't and hes brushed aside, and Bs clear.

There are.so many instances of this... where he loses battles over and over.

Here's one vs Tampa, where Hagel powers through him and Marner drops his stick and Tampa scores the gwg in game 6.

None of us can forget him pulling the chute vs Montreal and vs Boston.

Or how about game 4 vs Panthers when Reilly got filled in at the end of the game and Marner tried to casually ignore the scrum and skate by...but Tkatchuk pushed him back into it?:

 

[ClarkSittler]

Let’s trade Marner! He doesn’t make enough dumb ass plays that might get him suspended.

You honestly can’t make it up. I get your point and agree to a a certain extent but your justifications and examples are horrendous. All those plays you listed are dumb and didn’t help any of those teams and put those players at risk of missing games for their team either through suspension or potential injury.

You must've really hated Gilmour, Clark, Roberts and Tucker.

 

[francis246]

You must've really hated Gilmour, Clark, Roberts and Tucker.

Clark was a Maple Leaf when I was baby. So don’t really have vivid memories of him. Liked the other guys. Game was different then, those guys also played with edge and knew how to toe the line. The examples listed didn’t really do anything to altar the game or even make anyone scared. We are comparing a McDavid cross check to Darcy Tucker killing Kapanen for example. Tuckers hit on Kapanen would actually scare people. McDavid’s cross check just lets other teams know they can get under his skin and get him out of the game cause he’ll cross check you in the head. Even then Bruce Bell hit is a better reference than what was listed.

 

[GoonieFace]

Yeah never want to see somebody hurt, especially with a cheapshot. I am professing pushing back to build a reputation that you will not accept some of the shit you get and if it takes a suspension, consider it an investment. Players have to have some fear that they will be held accountable for their actions. Like I said, look at Tkachuk trying to bully Marner. You think MT is afraid to try the same bs the next time he finds it useful?

To be fair, no what Marner does, nobody is going to take him seriously. They may just end up pummeling him just for fun. But you are right, at least push back, not stand there looking ready to cry.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Clark was a Maple Leaf when I was baby. So don’t really have vivid memories of him. Liked the other guys. Game was different then, those guys also played with edge and knew how to toe the line. The examples listed didn’t really do anything to altar the game or even make anyone scared. We are comparing a McDavid cross check to Darcy Tucker killing Kapanen for example. Tuckers hit on Kapanen would actually scare people. McDavid’s cross check just lets other teams know they can get under his skin and get him out of the game cause he’ll cross check you in the head. Even then Bruce Bell hit is a better reference than what was listed.

You're cherry picking certain incidents. Gilmour did the same thing McDavid did, he was known as an ornery player sort of like Crosby is. That's the kind of leader you want. Saying that, I like Marner a lot, just wish he'd defend himself more and not shy away from physicality. I don't expect him to play like Wendel, just finishing his checks and going to the front of the net would be nice.

 

[leafs in five]

I personally felt a bit shitty about it when Tucker intentionally injured Mike Peca with that low hit

 

[Evilhomer]

Wrap your head around this: Marner is going to be ahead of McDavid in the scoring race after tonight's game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think the Leafs are going to give this guy an annual salary that starts with a 13.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Wrap your head around this: Marner is going to be ahead of McDavid in the scoring race after tonight's game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think the Leafs are going to give this guy an annual salary that starts with a 13.

Yes, they will pay Marner, because they don't know how to win cups

 

[Gary Nylund]

That was a helluva pass from Mitchy to end the period. What I wouldn't give to see the kid break through in the playoffs this spring!

 

[DarkKnight]

Sorry to report Marner up to 4th in league scoring now. Damn.

 

[Aashir]

Wrap your head around this: Marner is going to be ahead of McDavid in the scoring race after tonight's game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think the Leafs are going to give this guy an annual salary that starts with a 13.

my stance would be the same even if he was 1st

just let the season play out, deal with it after playoffs.

If he continues play like this, than we have no choice but to give it to him. If not.....then a tough choice has to be made


but he was really good tonight again

 

[ToneDog]

Wrap your head around this: Marner is going to be ahead of McDavid in the scoring race after tonight's game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think the Leafs are going to give this guy an annual salary that starts with a 13.

Two empty net goals in January and 15 for the season. Go ahead, cap yourself out for a guy who has done nothing in the playoffs for you in 8 years.