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Player Discussion - Mitch Marner, Continued | Page 23 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

I was watching game 7 of the Bruins series back and the pace was so fast that I had to double check if I had the speed set to 1.25.

Players were leaving it all on the line, hitting everything that moved. Tons of desperation.

Not Marner. Looked like he was playing game 25 of the season. Same physicality and speed as a season game. Here's him doing I don't know what on the forecheck...but the Bruin brushes him aside and clears.

20250111_233850_1.gif


Same weak efforts he had vs Tampa. This one below leading to the game 6 game winning goal. Too soft, not enough heart for playoffs success.

20250112_140101_1.gif
 
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Antropovsky said:
I was watching game 7 of the Bruins series back and the pace was so fast that I had to double check if I had the speed set to 1.25.

Players were leaving it all on the line, hitting everything that moved. Tons of desperation.

Not Marner. Looked like he was playing at 25 in the season. He can't win any battles:

View attachment 960123
Click to expand...
LOL. Come on now, he shutdown Pastrnak until he didn't.
 
Maybe that embarrassment game and asinine comments will create a spark, this team's been mostly shite since Nov. 30. You get a lot of flak for saying a league top 6 team is playing crappy. It's not really sustainable to require your goalie to be the best player on the ice night after night, even against non-playoff teams, especially when they've never had full workloads and have been injury-prone. It's about as sustainable as the old 18-wheelers that would outscore their problems before predictably barrelling off the cliff.
 
Antropovsky said:
Doesn't matter if its 99 mins, it's an entire series. No data removed. In order to win a series our best players have to be our best players, whether it's 1000 mins or one game.

Stats show that playmaker and 3 million dollar player Domi, was much more likely to score than Marner. Which is an indication of whose playing playoffs the right way and who isn't. Domi is just as much as playmaker first as Marner.
Click to expand...
It does matter because the stats you're using jump up and down for all players until you get much more data. That is the sample size problem. I believe someone posted recently that Matthews once went 9 games without a goal. If you use that data then he is a zero ppg guy. He also went 50 goals in 50 games once so is he a 0 ppg or 82 ppg guy?

When Domi was with Marner who do you think was making the passes to him? Could it have been the teams top playmaker? I would expect everyone who plays with Marner to get more scoring changes than him because it's his job to make the pass.

Could Domi have played better than Marner in that series, sure. But you can't prove it with individual scoring chances data. To do it properly with stats would require a shift by shift breakdown taking injuries, linemates, defensive pairs, etc etc etc, into account. And even then with such a small number of games, without actually taking into account the things that we don't measure like getting into passing lanes, chipping it out of the defensive zone, back checking etc etc, it's not gonna work. That's why you need a lot more data so that all that stuff averages out.

You really should stop trying to find super small samples of Marner playing poorly. Put it this way, Domi might have played better than Marner for one series but if you take 20 series Marner will always come out on top.

I've spent the time to repeat all this stuff again. I won't do it again.
 
Gary Nylund said:
I remember posting last year about something Patrick Mahomes said early last NFL season. His team was winning, but they weren't playing very well and this is what Mahomes said.

“If I start playing better, everybody will start playing better,” Mahomes said, via Adam Teicher of ESPN.com. “I missed some opportunities throughout the game and so I’ve just got to put us in better positions and [start] making better decisions so that the guys can go out there and work for me and make plays down the field.”

I said I wish we had a leader like that. In those few bolded words, he acknowledges that he hasn't played as well as he can, he implies that the same goes for the rest of the team as well. He also assumes the leadership role by saying if he leads the way, he knows that everyone else will follow. And guess what, they started rolling, and rolled all the way to another Super Bowl. Now that's what leadership looks like.

Matthews is the captain, so the lack of leadership isn't all on Marner, I'd say that as captain it's mostly on Matthews but still, as an assistant captain it's partly on Marner and it would be a big positive for the team if he came out and said something like Mahomes said. Instead, after another embarrassing loss Marner says "I liked it. I thought we played well, I really did".

Sure, it's one quote but as many have said, it's a symbolic part of a big picture that we've been watching for years now and it's not a pretty picture. He's said similar things before, that quote seems to be an accurate reflection of his attitude and if that's his attitude, it doesn't give much reason to hope that anything will change.
Click to expand...
We should know by now that none of our core is Mahomes level.
 
ToneDog said:
LOL. Come on now, he shutdown Pastrnak until he didn't.
Click to expand...
Fake news:

Keefe switched the lines when Matthews was hurt and Tavares Nylander line played more mins against Pastrnak. They also got primarily defensive zone faceoffs vs Pastrnak.

Marner was only on for a total of 2:52 mins against Pastrnak in game 7 and Pastrnak scored against him.
 
Nineteen67 said:
It is. It requires everyone doing their jobs and doing them well.
Mahomes has outperformed Allen in their playoff head to head matchups.
Click to expand...
:laugh: They don’t face each other, they face the other defense.

2024 NFL MVP race, odds: Josh Allen heavy favorite, Lamar Jackson second | FOX Sports

The regular season is in the books, and Josh Allen is the heavy favorite to win NFL MVP. Can another quarterback — or even a running back — snag the honor? Check out the latest.
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com
 
666 said:
It does matter because the stats you're using jump up and down for all players until you get much more data. That is the sample size problem. I believe someone posted recently that Matthews once went 9 games without a goal. If you use that data then he is a zero ppg guy. He also went 50 goals in 50 games once so is he a 0 ppg or 82 ppg guy?

When Domi was with Marner who do you think was making the passes to him? Could it have been the teams top playmaker? I would expect everyone who plays with Marner to get more scoring changes than him because it's his job to make the pass.

Could Domi have played better than Marner in that series, sure. But you can't prove it with individual scoring chances data. To do it properly with stats would require a shift by shift breakdown taking injuries, linemates, defensive pairs, etc etc etc, into account. And even then with such a small number of games, without actually taking into account the things that we don't measure like getting into passing lanes, chipping it out of the defensive zone, back checking etc etc, it's not gonna work. That's why you need a lot more data so that all that stuff averages out.

You really should stop trying to find super small samples of Marner playing poorly. Put it this way, Domi might have played better than Marner for one series but if you take 20 series Marner will always come out on top.

I've spent the time to repeat all this stuff again. I won't do it again.
Click to expand...
Matthews might go 9 games without a goal, but advanced stats say he should one of the top scorers. He's doing things right to score.

Meanwhile stats say Marner isn't scoring, and advanced stats indicate he isn't a threat and shouldn't be scoring.

See the difference?
 
ACC1224 said:
:laugh: They don’t face each other, they face the other defense.

2024 NFL MVP race, odds: Josh Allen heavy favorite, Lamar Jackson second | FOX Sports

The regular season is in the books, and Josh Allen is the heavy favorite to win NFL MVP. Can another quarterback — or even a running back — snag the honor? Check out the latest.
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com
Click to expand...
Oh they don’t. That’s real funny.


We all know that Allen is a great player and should be in the conversation as the MVP. But Mahomes is a SB MVP.

Matthews won an mvp, but you can’t mention him in the same breath as Allen. My point remains, wouldn’t it be great if he was tgat impactful in the playoffs. But to date, he’s just a guy.
 
Last edited:
Antropovsky said:
Matthews might go 9 games without a goal, but advanced stats say he should one of the top scorers. He's doing things right to score.

Meanwhile stats say Marner isn't scoring, isn't a threat and shouldn't be scoring.

See the difference?
Click to expand...
Marners job is a playmaker. Stats say he's exceptional at it while at the same time being elite defensively.
 
ACC1224 said:
:laugh: They don’t face each other, they face the other defense.

2024 NFL MVP race, odds: Josh Allen heavy favorite, Lamar Jackson second | FOX Sports

The regular season is in the books, and Josh Allen is the heavy favorite to win NFL MVP. Can another quarterback — or even a running back — snag the honor? Check out the latest.
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com
Click to expand...

Anyone who actually watches football knows Lamar and Josh are better than Pat. Pat has a better team that helps him execute some of the most crazy, desperation plays.

Pat and the chiefs have gotten a ton of favourable calls. Pat also benefits from having better coaching and an incredible O line.
 
francis246 said:
Anyone who actually watches football knows Lamar and Josh are better than Pat. Pat has a better team that helps him execute some of the most crazy, desperation plays.

Pat and the chiefs have gotten a ton of favourable calls. Pat also benefits from having better coaching and an incredible O line.
Click to expand...
What is the result of all these things going in his favor?
What has he done with it!
 
666 said:
Marners job is a playmaker. Stats say he's exceptional at it while at the same time being elite defensively.
Click to expand...
Domi is a playmaker... he had more primary assist, more secondary assists than Marner and more total assists...while playing less minutes and significantly less minutes with Matthews or Tavares than Marner.

Yet in the playoffs, Domi still had way better ixg, ihdsc, isc than Marner.

One makes 3 million, the other 11.
 
Let me rephrase the comment.

Wouldn’t it be nice if one of three Leafs stars was good enough to carry the Leafs in the playoffs like Josh Allen does for the Bills. No championships but consistently good and beats CBJ and TTOE every time.
 
francis246 said:
Anyone who actually watches football knows Lamar and Josh are better than Pat. Pat has a better team that helps him execute some of the most crazy, desperation plays.

Pat and the chiefs have gotten a ton of favourable calls. Pat also benefits from having better coaching and an incredible O line.
Click to expand...
Yeah it was a weird analogy
 
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