Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Gabriel426]

Well, think of it this way. If this team is only the Ottawa Senators of the 2000s, you still have a few outlier years where it all comes together for an ECF or Stanley Cup finals. And as imperfect as your Heatley, Spezza and Alfredsson are, you can see how life got worse without them....

So it really comes down to whether the Leafs think they should keep the band together and have the chance to do what they're supposed to, or if they're ready to make big and difficult franchise changing moves.

I mentioned it on this thread earlier. Leafs is pretty much a Unicorn in the NHL bc they can finish last in the league with absolutely no star power and still end up selling out every games with one of the highest price per ticket.
To me that’s the advantage Leafs Upper MGT(people above Shanny) really had not exploited. Bc that’s pretty much house money from the very beginning. Whereas the Sens and most teams in the league are more concern with staying in the black.
Lastly, losing MM and JT really won’t affect Leafs chances of making the playoffs.

 

[nuck]

Honestly, Avs might just let Rantanen go and signs Bennett, if they don’t go deep in the first playoffs.

Also McD will play a part in UFA this summer. Would Oilers trade him fully knowing he doesn’t want to extend? Or use the next season to convince him to stay? And if McD designs to stay, what will be his contract? If he signs for the max(17.6mil) then don’t you think Rantanen and MM will use that as comparable and ask for 80% of that which is 14mil.

To me that’s another factor why Avs and Leafs should not sign Rantanen and MM now in the off chance that McD wants to leave.

There isn't any evidence McDavid is has any interest in moving. They have made deep playoff runs with him and his buddy Drai was just extended. I don't believe he signs a max deal either as he hasn't to be as money driven as some other stars. From the Av POV they have won a Cup with Ranta which the Oil have not done. I don't see them having an urgent need to add another star to do what they have done without him. That seems more like a Ranger thing and the Leafs won't win a bidding war with the Rags because they won't/can't move anyone of value.

 

[Antropovsky]

Sample size too small.
Hits are notoriously unreliable stats.

At least you augmented someone else's bad stats with something a bit better. Still not good.

You admitted in a post that you used a small sample size, and then later went back and edited it 51 minutes later to remove that admission. It's amusing how you claimed the edit was "to simplify" when, in reality, you were just covering up your own inconsistency. You're accusing others of behavior you're guilty of yourself, which makes you the least credible person here.

Other people have called you out for it.

I'm done discussing with you. Lol....go edit some more of your bad takes. Cringe stuff : lol "edited to simplify":

edited to simplify:
Marner is still in the top 4 over half the season (the sample size). He's done it with a very diminished Matthews for most of it (the context). Now get your homework done and learn about sample sizes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You doubled down on that? Wow? GF is goals scored while you are on the ice. Not goals that you actually scored and GA is goals scored against you while you were on the ice. The combination GF% shows how effective in general someone is at offense AND DEFENCE combined.

Of course you actually ignored the data after hyping up Rantanen but that's expected from you.

What you're missing is that you ONLY pay attention to points and don't care about defensive play or anything else when evaluating players and miss the rest of game. Not that points don't mean anything they do just that there is so much more to the game that you are missing.

You said points are only 2% of the game and therefore don't matter, goals are a subset of points. Not only do you not seem to understand that, but this "while you were on the ice" nonsense is based on the +- stat which everyone knows is pretty much useless for measuring individual performance. Geez Louise, it's like you're stuck in the early 70s or something. Wake up and take a look around, you don't seem to understand that we're in the 21st century now.

There isn't any evidence McDavid is has any interest in moving. They have made deep playoff runs with him and his buddy Drai was just extended. I don't believe he signs a max deal either as he hasn't to be as money driven as some other stars. From the Av POV they have won a Cup with Ranta which the Oil have not done. I don't see them having an urgent need to add another star to do what they have done without him. That seems more like a Ranger thing and the Leafs won't win a bidding war with the Rags because they won't/can't move anyone of value.

I don't see McDavid moving either. Ranta though, that seems possible and if we have the chance to pivot from Marner to Ranta, we should do it, period.

You admitted in a post that you used a small sample size, and then later went back and edited it 51 minutes later to remove that admission. It's amusing how you claimed the edit was "to simplify" when, in reality, you were just covering up your own inconsistency. You're accusing others of behavior you're guilty of yourself, which makes you the least credible person here.

Other people have called you out for it.

I'm done discussing with you. Lol... go edit some more of your bad takes. cringe stuff: "lol edited to simplify"

Too funny.

 

[666]

You admitted in a post that you used a small sample size, and then later went back and edited it 51 minutes later to remove that admission. It's amusing how you claimed the edit was "to simplify" when, in reality, you were just covering up your own inconsistency. You're accusing others of behavior you're guilty of yourself, which makes you the least credible person here.

Other people have called you out for it.

I'm done discussing with you. Lol....go and edit some more of your bad takes. Cringe stuff : lol "edited to simplify":

I fixed the post because the sample wasn't small because the "stat" is Marners RANKING in the scoring race and that particular "stat" tends to converge after half a season i.e. Marner is expected to finish high in the scoring race unless he gets injured. Even higher with Matthews back. Everything is consistent. When you're using 14 games of GF/60 data that doesn't converge without a ton more data.

You should definitely ignore me. That would be great.

 

[FrankieC]

Marner is the most important player on this team but, this team has not had playoff success so I'm not sold the Leafs need to sign him. Wait and see.

 

[Antropovsky]

I fixed the post because the sample wasn't small because the "stat" is Marners RANKING in the scoring race and that particular "stat" tends to converge after half a season i.e. Marner is expected to finish high in the scoring race unless he gets injured. Even higher with Matthews back. Everything is consistent. When you're using 14 games of GF/60 data that doesn't converge without a ton more data.

You should definitely ignore me. That would be great.

Fixed....? So you admitted to using a small sample size yourself...then thought hard about it for 50 mins and decided that you didn't use a small sample size after all?

 

[666]

You said points are only 2% of the game and therefore don't matter, goals are a subset of points.

No. I never said points don't matter. I said YOU only consider points and ignore the rest when evaluating players. DEFENCE matters.

 

[666]

Fixed....? So you admitted to using a small sample size yourself...then thought hard about it for 50 mins and decided that you didn't use a small sample size after all?

The word I used was smallish because it was only half a season (all situations) which is definitely smallish for most stats and very small for 5v5 stats due to the reduced minutes but things like standings don't work the same. I realized my error 50 minutes later and corrected. Sue me.

 

[Gabriel426]

There isn't any evidence McDavid is has any interest in moving. They have made deep playoff runs with him and his buddy Drai was just extended. I don't believe he signs a max deal either as he hasn't to be as money driven as some other stars. From the Av POV they have won a Cup with Ranta which the Oil have not done. I don't see them having an urgent need to add another star to do what they have done without him. That seems more like a Ranger thing and the Leafs won't win a bidding war with the Rags because they won't/can't move anyone of value.

I didn’t say McD will leave but I think teams should plan for that just in case he does want to leave. And this July will be quite clear.
McD should signs the extension on July 1 or 2. As I don’t see why Oilers won’t offer a contract to him. Pretty sure Oilers already had.
Point I am trying to make is what if McD doesn’t sign on July 1 and indicate he wants to leave.
Leafs advantage is being Leafs, McD is a fan and pretty much dreamt to lift the Cup in a Leafs jersey.
Avs advantage is having two of the best players in the league behind McD.
What I said is a what if scenario and I just don’t see why Avs or Leafs should not wait and find out in July.
The other thing is the contract of McD. If he signs for 14.5mil. Tre and Sakic will use that as a ref in negotiations with MM and Rantanen respectively. Think it is fair to say that both players are about 20% less than McD. So if McD is signing for 14.5mil then both of them should be around the 11.6mil range.

 

[34]

Another NO SHOW from this entitled, overrated winger.

$13M…. f*** off.

 

[thewave]

Make Auston Great Again

Let's go Smitchy, we need some Magic

 

[francis246]

Another NO SHOW from this entitled, overrated winger.

$13M…. f*** off.

Have you blew off steam in the Nylander thread as well? 1 goal in his last 10 games. Seems like we got a few entitled/overrated wingers on the team.

 

[34]

Have you blew off steam in the Nylander thread as well? 1 goal in his last 10 games. Seems like we got a few entitled/overrated wingers on the team.

Nylander worth his contract. Marner has not been better than him.

 

[francis246]

Nylander worth his contract. Marner has not been better than him.

Lmfao, Nylander is not worth 11.5. And getting mad at Marner while completely absolving Nylander or any other forward on the team just doesn’t make any sense. Anyone with half a brain knows that. I don’t think Marner is worth 13 for what it’s worth. Nylander is overpaid. So is Marner.

 

[thewave]

Lmfao, Nylander is not worth 11.5. Anyone with half a brain knows that. I don’t think Marner is worth 13 for what it’s worth. Nylander is overpaid. So is Marner.

On the next cap as projected probably about 10m for Nylander and 11m for Marner. I think that would be USA market fair.

 

[francis246]

On the next cap as projected probably about 10m for Nylander and 11m for Marner. I think that would be USA market fair.

I think those numbers are pretty accurate. If they were paid according to comparables across the league.

 

[thewave]

I think those numbers are pretty accurate. If they were paid according to comparables across the league.

The extra 3.5m in savings turns a guy like Domi into another year of JT or an upgraded defender etc. Overpays add up and have consequences.

 

[mclaren55]

All those players were traded. Not walked to UFA.

Like talking to a wall. Have a good one Francis.

 

[francis246]

Like talking to a wall. Have a good one Francis.

I have the same sentiments talking to you.

 

[Apex Predator]

 

[mclaren55]

It's shit like this that drives fans nuts. Just have ownership over the loss, say "We need to be better" and move on. The lack of accountability from some of these guys is wild.

 

[666]

It's shit like this that drives fans nuts. Just have ownership over the loss, say "We need to be better" and move on. The lack of accountability from some of these guys is wild.

It's Bull Durham speak. They all do it.

 

[Racer88]

Nylander worth his contract. Marner has not been better than him.

Nylander is not worth his contract

It's shit like this that drives fans nuts. Just have ownership over the loss, say "We need to be better" and move on. The lack of accountability from some of these guys is wild.

Unfortunately he doesn’t feel he needs to be better……..delusional

 

[thewave]

He believes this too. He really does.