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Player Discussion - Mitch Marner, Continued | Page 14 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

One hundred percent agree Gary but the best changes come from trades. There’s a reason why teams don’t walk their best players to free agency. It’s bad asset management. No one is saying don’t make changes, but this is one of the worst ways to make changes historically speaking. The teams that have changed their core have made trades that have benefited them.
Of course trading is better than losing a guy for nothing, and chances are Marner will be signed. That said, and history notwithstanding, there is no guarantee that extending Marner will turn out better then letting him walk would turn out. There is also some combination of cap hit and term where the Leafs should just say no, that's too much, we're not doing that.

He wants to be here, he makes millions in endorsements, he wasn't good value for his last contract, he has been a playoff disappointment and covid also didn't cost him any money which is something you can't say for most of the players in the league. Bottom line, considering everything, I say he's gotta give a little, bend a little, be reasonable and if rumours are true and he already turned down a very sweet contract, that suggests that he wants to milk us for all he can and if that's the case, I say f*** him, let him walk.
 
Choose whatever management group you want, doesn’t make your take any less egregious.

Name me a superstar in the Salary Cap era that their NHL Club let them walk to UFA because of poor playoff performance. I’ll wait, it’s never fcking happened ever.

Better yet, tell me a team that refused to pay a superstar because of lack of playoff success. Yup, I’ll wait. Never happened. Playoff performance has never been a MAJOR factor in contract negotiations. It’s definitely a part of it. But it doesn’t weigh as heavily as regular season. Contracts are primarily based on how much you produce in the regular season. All we hear when players talk about comparables is individual regular season statistics because everyone involved in sports know that playoff success has more to do with team.
No... but most management arent as dysfunctional as the leafs. We learned this from the Lou breakup followed by the Dubas breakup. How green everyone was after Lou and we know there were diagreements between Dubas and Shanahan. Additionally, we learned there were apparently disagreements between Rogers and Bell. Which led to Rogers buying out Bell. Other managements, wouldve moved Marner sooner. But that doesnt mean its not still the right decision.

However, Zito wasnt dumb and he traded Huberdeau, coming off 113 points for Tkatchuk. Apparently he didnt like what he saw from Huberdeau in the playoffs.

I suggested Leafs trade Marner for Tkatchuk. Was told by Marner fans (still in this thread) that Marner was easily better. Got some lolz too.

I suggested Leafs trade Marner for Eichel. Was told by Marner fans (still in this thread) that Marner was easily better. Got some lolz too.

I suggest Marner for a Connor package, was told Marner was easily better.

Marner fans even used ro say he was better than Kucherov.

Ive pointed to Marners lack of battle and fear of physical play and how losing doesnt seem to bother him... how he makes excuses for losing like "its the hardest trophy to win for a reason". Despite multiple videos of him leaving pucks in corners to avoid being hit (pulling the chute), the videos separated by 4 postseasons.

Told I know nothing.

Well here is how Panthers choose their players:

The Panthers stick to a guiding philosophy: Every player is scouted for his character. Players must be ultra competitive, but also humble enough to buy into Coach Maurice's style, which is mentally and physically taxing. Zito said their vetting often includes questions like: How compelled are they by winning? What types of sacrifices have they made at previous stops?

Marner ...not ultra competitive and not humble.
 
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Again never said it doesn’t matter. I said it doesn’t play that big of a role. Whether Marner gets the money from the leafs or somewhere else, he’s getting paid. If the leafs care about his playoff performance, another team will sign him in UFA and not care about the playoff numbers. That’s how sports has always worked, am I wrong about that?
I hear what you're saying, but almost every superstar in every sport has one thing in common, Championship wins.

Go look at the top 30 NHL scorers of all time, they have all been to a Cup final (except Mats Sundin who lead us to two Conference finals at least) and over 90% have Stanley Cup rings. Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Yzerman, Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Kane, Sakic. The list doesn't even include McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Orr, Mckinnon, Makar, Keith, Toews, Roy, Brodeur. This is what superstars do, they get you to Championships and usually win them.

NBA Stars Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Curry.

NFL Mahomes, Brady, Montana, Rice, Elway, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger.

MLB is a little different since since the rosters are so big and pitching determines a lot, but you have Jeter, Rivera, Ortiz, Smoltz, Koufax, Nolan Ryan and even our own Roberto Alomar, Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield.

Soccer Both Rinaldo's, Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Pele, Platini

Now Marner, Matthews, Tavares and Nylander still have some time, but so far they haven't lead their team anywhere near a Championship.
 
One hundred percent agree Gary but the best changes come from trades. There’s a reason why teams don’t walk their best players to free agency. It’s bad asset management. No one is saying don’t make changes, but this is one of the worst ways to make changes historically speaking. The teams that have changed their core have made trades that have benefited them.
There's a strong argument to be made there no doubt, but you might not be putting enough weight behind a hypothetical ninth straight faceplant in a row. That's not nothing.
 

The Toronto Maple Leafs want to bring back Mitch Marner this off-season, and now they've reportedly agreed on a limit that they will pay him to make it happen.

For quite some time, the story of a potential Mitch Marner extension has been a huge story in Toronto, and now with his pending free agency quickly approaching, it's about to come to a head, one way or another.

In the midst of a career year, Marner's value is continuing to go up, and at 27 years of age with a huge career ahead of him, the time for Marner to cash in with a long-term deal is now.

Now, TSN's Pierre LeBrun has weighed in on the situation, noting that the team, much like Colorado doesn't want to make their upcoming free agents their highest-paid players, with Nathan MacKinnon and Auston Matthews currently holding the mantle for their respective teams.

"It's not been a headline story which is unbelievable. What I would tell you is that there is no question that part of the dialogue that is a stumbling block is that much like Nathan MacKinnon's cap number much like Mikko Rantanen, they are pointing to Auston Matthews and I understand from a team perspective.

So, what does LeBrun think the number is in Toronto? According to him, the team has a hard limit of $13 million, with the team likely happy to pay him around the $12.5 million AAV mark.

"It comes down to this. I don't think the Leafs feel they can or will pay more than $13M, $12.5M? Is that enough for an 8-year deal? If that's where it is, that's the I think that's the clear line of demarcation, $13 million a year."


At this point in 2024/25, Marner is on track to pass 100 points for the first time in his career, and while many teammates in Toronto want him back, there will be interest around the league, and if the Leafs aren't willing to go over $12.5 million, we may see another team swoop in and land the young star.
 

The Toronto Maple Leafs want to bring back Mitch Marner this off-season, and now they've reportedly agreed on a limit that they will pay him to make it happen.

For quite some time, the story of a potential Mitch Marner extension has been a huge story in Toronto, and now with his pending free agency quickly approaching, it's about to come to a head, one way or another.

In the midst of a career year, Marner's value is continuing to go up, and at 27 years of age with a huge career ahead of him, the time for Marner to cash in with a long-term deal is now.

Now, TSN's Pierre LeBrun has weighed in on the situation, noting that the team, much like Colorado doesn't want to make their upcoming free agents their highest-paid players, with Nathan MacKinnon and Auston Matthews currently holding the mantle for their respective teams.

"It's not been a headline story which is unbelievable. What I would tell you is that there is no question that part of the dialogue that is a stumbling block is that much like Nathan MacKinnon's cap number much like Mikko Rantanen, they are pointing to Auston Matthews and I understand from a team perspective.

So, what does LeBrun think the number is in Toronto? According to him, the team has a hard limit of $13 million, with the team likely happy to pay him around the $12.5 million AAV mark.

"It comes down to this. I don't think the Leafs feel they can or will pay more than $13M, $12.5M? Is that enough for an 8-year deal? If that's where it is, that's the I think that's the clear line of demarcation, $13 million a year."


At this point in 2024/25, Marner is on track to pass 100 points for the first time in his career, and while many teammates in Toronto want him back, there will be interest around the league, and if the Leafs aren't willing to go over $12.5 million, we may see another team swoop in and land the young star.
There's no 12.5M, they will pay him 13M if the playoffs go well enough.
 
One hundred percent agree Gary but the best changes come from trades. There’s a reason why teams don’t walk their best players to free agency. It’s bad asset management. No one is saying don’t make changes, but this is one of the worst ways to make changes historically speaking. The teams that have changed their core have made trades that have benefited them.
Ofcourse it is better to trade them than lose for nothing.
But if it is another 1st round exit? Would letting both JT and MM go really that bad?
The bar is set at making the playoffs.

I strongly believe that even if MM and JT are not replaced, the current Leafs can still make the playoffs in the coming season. Now they might make it via WC but what’s the difference if they get bounce in the first round.

I am in the camp that if they crash out in the first round again, both MM and JT needs to go unless JT signs the Vatano deal with a caphit of 3.75 but it is a 18m/3years with no A or C on the sweater. Bc the core just can’t get it done and that’s need to change.
I am also for trading Reilly, and Willie in the summer if there is a right deal.
For example if Andersson and Miller are still available for trade. You make those trades, one for one. Reilly to Flames and Willie to Nucks.

AM gets to stay bc he is a 60goals scoring C but if there is a good deal for a C, he can be traded too.
Like Zjad and Laf from the Rangers.

Then use the money from MM for Bennett.


All these are dramatic and seems like video game
talk but is it really that far fetched.

Look at Vegas they started with a whole bunch of unwanted and leftovers then went to the Finals in their first year.
When they traded for players even at TDL, they know they can resign them unless they don’t want to. That’s much better assets management than the Leafs with pure rentals as they can’t resign them due to the cap and can only trade for them due to paying more for retention.

When people here saying MM is not worth the money or should not resign until after playoffs. They are all stating the results of the past 8 playoffs. It is madness to continue to bet on the core 5 that they can get it done sometime in the future when the facts and results point to failure.

They are worth the money bc someone is willing to pay them but collectively they all choked.

Now this can all change this playoffs. If the Leafs win the Cup or lose in the Finals or ECF as they really truly battled. While MM and JT played a main role and not just BS crap like advanced stats or they did better than player X….in the playoffs. Then they should bring them back as this group is truly close and is a bounce or two away from winning the Cup.
As of today, they had not shown that they were close but they believe they were. They also believed they were RIGHT THERE and only a bounce or two away from the Cup but in reality they were just close to being in the Second Round.
 
At this point in 2024/25, Marner is on track to pass 100 points for the first time in his career, and while many teammates in Toronto want him back, there will be interest around the league, and if the Leafs aren't willing to go over $12.5 million, we may see another team swoop in and land the young star.
This feeds back into an area of interest for me. $12.5 million over 8 years is $100 million, a nice round number for Mitch, which would give him @$170 million minus endorsement earnings by the time he's 35.

Perhaps this is not enough for Ferris, though? After all, he still feels the wounds from when the Leafs organisation disrespected Mitch by not paying rookie bonuses and forcing him to have to endure Babcock's manipulations. He also feels the 6-year $10.9 million RFA contract was not enough to make up for that, since the toxic media and fans who thought he was overpaid have picked on him unfairly. He sagely informs Mitch that it's not really about the overall value of the contract, it's about recognising his value through cap percentage and AAV and bonus schedules and tax implications and Willy and Auston's contracts and making sure you don't give away years 'for free'. $170 million -- US dollars -- by age 35 to stay in Toronto just isn't enough, Mitch, trust me.

So, Mitch says thanks but no thanks to the $100 million to stay with his beloved hometown team which he has repeatedly and publically said he doesn't want to leave and hits the open market. Now, for a team to 'swoop' in and match/beat the Leafs' total, then, it would have to be $14.3 million over 7 years. I've expressed my musings on this in earlier posts, if you care.

I'm aware there are those out there that are on the record as saying there are plenty of teams that will pony up that kind of money for Mitch. Let's say it comes to that -- which teams are most likely to offer that kind of contract?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
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The interesting part of this whole thread is that some are turning it into “Marners good, he’s gonna get paid anywhere he’ll go. He’ll get paid. He’ll get paid. Salary Cap goes up. Yadda”. But should he be signed by the Leafs, though….? They’ve tried getting somewhere with a certain core. It hasn’t worked. They already have one winger above 10 mil/per, do they need two? Shouldn’t you, the fans, want the management of your team to do more from you? Maybe try something else…? Why are some posters so OK with not winning?

It’s weird. Is there any other example of such an unsuccessful core of players, staying together this long, in sports history?
 
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The interesting part of this whole thread is that some are turning it into “Marners good, he’s gonna get paid anywhere he’ll go. He’ll get paid. He’ll get paid. Salary Cap goes up. Yadda”. But should he be signed by the Leafs, though….? They’ve tried getting somewhere with a certain core. It hasn’t worked. They already have one winger above 10 mil/per, do they need two? Shouldn’t you, the fans, want the management of your team to do more from you? Maybe try something else…? Why are some posters so OK with not winning?

It’s weird. Is there any other example of such an unsuccessful core of players, staying together this long, in sports history?

As fan it’s not that black and white. Yes of course I want the team to win. But I’m also gonna be pissed off if we let this guy walk and we suck after. Cause we let a talented player go for nothing. It’s an impossible position and I don’t think there’s a wrong side to this. People who want the leafs to let Marner walk and try something different aren’t wrong and people who feel like letting him go will make the team worse aren’t wrong because both can be true. This is probably one of the most critical junctures this team has been at in a very long time. We may very well need change, but there is a 50% chance we still suck after making the changes people want and that will be a very tough pill to swallow. There’s also a 50% chance we get better. So idk what the right move is.
 
As fan it’s not that black and white. Yes of course I want the team to win. But I’m also gonna be pissed off if we let this guy walk and we suck after. Cause we let a talented player go for nothing. It’s an impossible position and I don’t think there’s a wrong side to this. People who want the leafs to let Marner walk and try something different aren’t wrong and people who feel like letting him go will make the team worse aren’t wrong because both can be true. This is probably one of the most critical junctures this team has been at in a very long time. We may very well need change, but there is a 50% chance we still suck after making the changes people want and that will be a very tough pill to swallow. There’s also a 50% chance we get better. So idk what the right move is.
….also the thought that you either keep it the same or Marner leaves is too narrow.
IMO, if change is warranted any of the three should be discussed as being moved for change, not just the one.

The thinking of some that if you don’t want Marner moved means you don’t want the team to win is asinine and really should just be ignored.
 
The interesting part of this whole thread is that some are turning it into “Marners good, he’s gonna get paid anywhere he’ll go. He’ll get paid. He’ll get paid. Salary Cap goes up. Yadda”. But should he be signed by the Leafs, though….? They’ve tried getting somewhere with a certain core. It hasn’t worked. They already have one winger above 10 mil/per, do they need two? Shouldn’t you, the fans, want the management of your team to do more from you? Maybe try something else…? Why are some posters so OK with not winning?

It’s weird. Is there any other example of such an unsuccessful core of players, staying together this long, in sports history?
Hard to believe some fans want to see Marner overpaid at the expense of the team after watching him underperform on his last contract and helping us win 1 series in 9 playoff attempts. Can you say agenda?
 
….also the thought that you either keep it the same or Marner leaves is too narrow.
IMO, if change is warranted any of the three should be discussed as being moved for change, not just the one.

The thinking of some that if you don’t want Marner moved means you don’t want the team to win is asinine and really should just be ignored.
Agreed.
MnM is the core. We're stuck with Nylander although anyone is tradeable. The increase in cap and JT coming off the books or signing for a lot less will help.
Whatever happens you don't lose Marner because you messed up with Nylander.
 
While Mitch is a very skilled player,I just don’t see any other team in the league paying him over $10M a season.

He is not on the same level as the Matthews, MacKinnon type of guys. He is not a $13M guy.

If he is that set on thinking someone is going to pay him that, then good riddance.
No... but most management arent as dysfunctional as the leafs. We learned this from the Lou breakup followed by the Dubas breakup. How green everyone was after Lou and we know there were diagreements between Dubas and Shanahan. Additionally, we learned there were apparently disagreements between Rogers and Bell. Which led to Rogers buying out Bell. Other managements, wouldve moved Marner sooner. But that doesnt mean its not still the right decision.

However, Zito wasnt dumb and he traded Huberdeau, coming off 113 points for Tkatchuk. Apparently he didnt like what he saw from Huberdeau in the playoffs.

I suggested Leafs trade Marner for Tkatchuk. Was told by Marner fans (still in this thread) that Marner was easily better. Got some lolz too.

I suggested Leafs trade Marner for Eichel. Was told by Marner fans (still in this thread) that Marner was easily better. Got some lolz too.

I suggest Marner for a Connor package, was told Marner was easily better.

Marner fans even used ro say he was better than Kucherov.

Ive pointed to Marners lack of battle and fear of physical play and how losing doesnt seem to bother him... how he makes excuses for losing like "its the hardest trophy to win for a reason". Despite multiple videos of him leaving pucks in corners to avoid being hit (pulling the chute), the videos separated by 4 postseasons.

Told I know nothing.

Well here is how Panthers choose their players:



Marner ...not ultra competitive and not humble.

1- An unidimentionnal offensive player pretty trash in the defensive side who show up only when he interest to play... Outside he's a playmaker, they're no comparable to Marner who had been the most trusted player all his carreer in Toronto. Marner is closer of Barkov ( who didn't had more playoff succes in his first 9 season in NHL) than huberdeau.

2 funny you talking about physical play and being affraid to be hit when only tavares who took more hit than Marner
-hit taken by core 4 last 4 postseason
Tavares 58
marner 57
matthews 39
nylander 37

So if Marner avoid to be hit, what it's meaning for Matthews and Nylander ?!?!?!
 
Hard to believe some fans want to see Marner overpaid at the expense of the team after watching him underperform on his last contract and helping us win 1 series in 9 playoff attempts. Can you say agenda?
The agenda is it to keep the guy that will probably be the Leafs all time number one scorer and a first ballot HOFer. No one wants to see anyone get overpaid.
 
….also the thought that you either keep it the same or Marner leaves is too narrow.
IMO, if change is warranted any of the three should be discussed as being moved for change, not just the one.

The thinking of some that if you don’t want Marner moved means you don’t want the team to win is asinine and really should just be ignored.
Matthews and Nylander (both signed by current GM BT) have full NMC contracts.

Marner is on an expiring contract where in the past his NMC prevented change.

AM and WN both have full control of their current contract and trade situations.

There is a valid reason why Marner was not re-signed yet, and if the Leafs want to change the core 4 that will come at the expense of Marner. The playoffs this year for both Leafs and Marner will be critical to his future as a Leaf. IMO
 
As fan it’s not that black and white. Yes of course I want the team to win. But I’m also gonna be pissed off if we let this guy walk and we suck after. Cause we let a talented player go for nothing. It’s an impossible position and I don’t think there’s a wrong side to this. People who want the leafs to let Marner walk and try something different aren’t wrong and people who feel like letting him go will make the team worse aren’t wrong because both can be true. This is probably one of the most critical junctures this team has been at in a very long time. We may very well need change, but there is a 50% chance we still suck after making the changes people want and that will be a very tough pill to swallow. There’s also a 50% chance we get better. So idk what the right move is.
It is clear Leafs are not letting him walk for nothing so the question becomes how much are they willing to pay him and how much does Marner want. IMO Marner won't do himself any favours if this contract negotiation plays out similarly to the last one.
 
Hard to believe some fans want to see Marner overpaid at the expense of the team after watching him underperform on his last contract and helping us win 1 series in 9 playoff attempts. Can you say agenda?

Comments like these are dumb. We want to see the leafs retain good talent because some of us don’t want to go back to the days of wishing the team had good players. That’s literally it. Stop trying to troll please.
 
Matthews and Nylander (both signed by current GM BT) have full NMC contracts.

Marner is on an expiring contract where in the past his NMC prevented change.

AM and WN both have full control of their current contract and trade situations.

There is a valid reason why Marner was not re-signed yet, and if the Leafs want to change the core 4 that will come at the expense of Marner. The playoffs this year for both Leafs and Marner will be critical to his future as a Leaf. IMO
there could be many ‘valid reason’ if you open your mind and look at things reasonably.

The agenda is it to keep the guy that will probably be the Leafs all time number one scorer and a first ballot HOFer. No one wants to see anyone get overpaid.
The thought that anyone wants to see him overpaid is just the latest in a long line of silly thoughts. It could be the least thought out though, certainly ranks up there.
 
Matthews and Nylander (both signed by current GM BT) have full NMC contracts.

Marner is on an expiring contract where in the past his NMC prevented change.

AM and WN both have full control of their current contract and trade situations.
Some people do not understand that the Leafs will not have any options to change this core once they give Marner a NMC other than what the Rangers are currently doing with their players. They forced Trouba to waive and Zibanejad just refused to waive to Vancouver. Leafs most likely will not do that, so they will be running it back for at least another 3 years, when Matty is up to bat again. A loss to Florida in round #2 won't go over well with most of the fan base.
 
there could be many ‘valid reason’ if you open your mind and look at things reasonably.


The thought that anyone wants to see him overpaid is just the latest in a long line of silly thoughts. It could be the least thought out though, certainly ranks up there.
It's beyond silly thoughts. It's more like poorly crafted misinformation.
 
Shows up in the playoffs, leafs win two+ rounds sign him to 12 x 8.

He craps the bed and leafs crash out, evaluate the options
Leafs would have gladly signed him to $12mx8 if he'd accept it. This is playing out like it did for Willie last year. Question is whether the Leafs cave before the playoffs and pay his ask.
 
He’s starting to play like his brain is getting tired. No shame in resting him either by playing fewer minutes, less practice, or just a night off.
 
Some people do not understand that the Leafs will not have any options to change this core once they give Marner a NMC other than what the Rangers are currently doing with their players. They forced Trouba to waive and Zibanejad just refused to waive to Vancouver. Leafs most likely will not do that, so they will be running it back for at least another 3 years, when Matty is up to bat again. A loss to Florida in round #2 won't go over well with most of the fan base.
The Leafs just named AM their new captain and Nylander re-signed long-term for the full 8 year commitment and both were given full NMC contracts by our current GM.

While Nylander's contract today at $11.5 mil is an over-payment in 2024-25 however due to the length and commitment by Willy that contract in 4-5 years with the current Cap increases expected annually will be a value contract to the Leafs down the road.

Marner on the other hand likely over-played his hand in past negotiations, where he wanted TOP $$ and as short term as possible, so he could re-up sooner and prosper personally financially. Marner is likely overpaid by about $2-$2.5 mil annually, and should be on a current 8 x $8.5 mil deal. that would have and additional 2 years remaining after current (if not for our clueless past GM).

Short-term high AAV contracts are good for player but bad for TEAM competitiveness.

The early bird gets the worm as the saying goes. So now Marner (a local Ontario kid) who would love to remain a Leaf no doubt. Missed his gravy train opportunity based on timing of wanting to go last up to the contract table because now CHANGE will have to run through him of the 3 Amigo's.

PS. If Marner would currently accept the Nylander 8 year / $93 mil deal (or thereabouts) he would likely already be re-signed. (regardless of playoff results) as there would be room/value to keep all 3. However I would be willing to bet that both that rate and combined with that full term, is not of interest to Marner. IMO
 

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