Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Gabriel426]

I think you are correct where in games 5 through 7 he performs at a lower rate, which I would expect as Leafs rarely had home ice, the other team could put their best checkers out against our best players. In the end most coaches will say you need to find a way, no matter who is checking you. I dont disagree but I'm not surprised that his numbers drop in the last 3 games in any series.

I think he is worse than Mitch.

If he is you'd never know it.

It is not just the goals and points but how the core 5 played in elimination games.
Most if not all the time, they were all flat and completely sucks.
It is like they were all waiting for someone else to take the lead.

 

[francis246]

I think he is worse than Mitch.

I calculated it this summer. His numbers aren’t great. Slightly better than Mitch but marginally. Matthews also missed games 5 and 6 this year which skews the results and is in his favour. But Matthews goal scoring drops considerably in games 5-7. Mitch doesn’t score goals at all in those games.

 

[ToneDog]

I calculated it this summer. His numbers aren’t great. Slightly better than Mitch but marginally. Matthews also missed games 5 and 6 this year which skews the results and is in his favour. But Matthews goal scoring drops considerably in games 5-7. Mitch doesn’t score goals at all in those games.

I summed up points in games 5-7.

Matty 13 0.68
Mitch 9 0.41
Willie 17 0.81

All 3 have 6 points each in the last two playoff series (Matty and Willie in 10 and 9 games resp.).

 

[thusk]

Just watched the replays of the goals last night and even though Knies scored the winner, Mitch also deserves some credit for the goal.

Right off the draw Marner heads directly to the crease and plants himself right in front of Fedotov creating almost a double screen with both he and Knies there. If it was just Knies with one of the opposing defenders, it would have been much easier for Fedotov to see around the first screen and track the puck.

Just a small detail but one that shows up bigtime in postseason play where getting traffic around the crease is a big deal.

View attachment 958214

Just an exemple you have no point in a play and still amking a key play to make it happen.

 

[DarkKnight]

I summed up points in games 5-7.

Matty 13 0.68
Mitch 9 0.41
Willie 17 0.81

All 3 have 6 points each in the last two playoff series (Matty and Willie in 10 and 9 games resp.).

One thing that should be pointed out. Nylander gets better matchups in the playoffs, the opposing team puts their best up against Marner's line, so all things being equal, you expect better numbers. It's also why teams that get depth scoring do well in the playoffs, because strategies throw everything at negating the top line. Marner gets the shutdown pair, it does matter....although I'm not excusing the obvious, he has wilted in big games, no question about it.

 

[Antropovsky]

Wouldn't Matthews have similar numbers since they play together?

Last year in interviews Marner kept saying to reporters that teams are taking away Matthews and that he and the other winger need to find ways to take advantage of the extra space.

So Leaf coaches and the wingers have identified that teams are cheating to Matthews.

Teams have learned that Matthews is the true biggest threat and his linemates, no as much.

This is one hint that its more Marner then Matthews, because if Marner is a superstar then he should be making teams pay for the extra space they give him, but he isnt and hasnt 5v5.

Also if you watch the playoff goals, when the line did score...Matthews was primarily creating the goals. Much the same as how he has since hes come back from injury. Prior to the injury Marner had just 6 points in 14 games, a 35 point pace which wouldve put Marner in 200th place amongst all NHL players.

 

[666]

Prior to the injury Marner had just 6 points in 14 games

Again, ridiculously small sample size.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry man, I've got all the answers I need and if mine aren't obvious by now then they never will.

Since you're still replying I will add one small thing that should have been obvious but it apparently wasn't.

I should have said:
"I can tell you why the coaches don't do what you think that they should do, and that's because with Nylander on the ice the other team is MUCH more likely to score because the other teams top guys are going to be playing a lot, that's what MnM do and Nylander doesn't"

I doubt I'll be bugging you much in the future unless you keep posting the 86 game thing.

We both know your claims are beyond ridiculous, which is why you won't answer.

 

[ACC1224]

Tough stat line tonight

 

[Mr_Fun]

Terrible in both ends tonight. Looked good for about 10 minutes until all hell broke loose.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think you are correct where in games 5 through 7 he performs at a lower rate, which I would expect as Leafs rarely had home ice, the other team could put their best checkers out against our best players. In the end most coaches will say you need to find a way, no matter who is checking you. I dont disagree but I'm not surprised that his numbers drop in the last 3 games in any series.

What scares me is that he was so bad against Florida and sure that's the only time we've been past round 1, but it adds some weight to the idea that once players adjust to playoff hockey, Marner's game just isn't effective. To be clear, if it's not just games 5/6/7 but every game after midway through round 1, that means he's of little value to a team trying to go deep.

It's weird. Most of the time he's just so good, he used to be my favorite player, one of the best Leafs I've ever seen and after game 86, it's like a switch is flipped and poof, he's gone. I would give a lot to see him be a playoff beast this spring, we have a pretty good team and he's such an important part of it, if he can do it this team could go places. All our stars need to bring it of course so it's not all on him, Marner's just the one who I have the least confidence in at this point.

Didn't Lemaire once say that a certain player is a 50 goal guy, and the reporter asked puzzled but he only scores 20 a year and Lemaire responded yeah but he prevents 30. I might have the quote wrong but the sentiment remains the same.

That quote sounds vaguely familiar, it sounds like something Bowman might have said about Gainey but I don't remember the exact quote or who said it either. Great line though!

 

[Suntouchable13]

How typical, what a great leader. Playing another eastern contender and laying a huge egg.

 

[arso40]

What scares me is that he was so bad against Florida and sure that's the only time we've been past round 1, but it adds some weight to the idea that once players adjust to playoff hockey, Marner's game just isn't effective. To be clear, if it's not just games 5/6/7 but every game after midway through round 1, that means he's of little value to a team trying to go deep.

It's weird. Most of the time he's just so good, he used to be my favorite player, one of the best Leafs I've ever seen and after game 86, it's like a switch is flipped and poof, he's gone. I would give a lot to see him be a playoff beast this spring, we have a pretty good team and he's such an important part of it, if he can do it this team could go places. All our stars need to bring it of course so it's not all on him, Marner's just the one who I have the least confidence in at this point.

That quote sounds vaguely familiar, it sounds like something Bowman might have said about Gainey but I don't remember the exact quote or who said it either. Great line though!

Tight game doesn’t suit Mitch at all or that line for that matter jt looks good with him

 

[Gary Nylund]

Tough stat line tonight

I wasn't paying much attention tonight but I just heard them say on TV (if I heard right) that the top line was a combined -17 tonight. LOL WTF!!

Oh well, just one game. The other night they got 10 points or whatever between them, tonight -17. I really don't care. Matthews looks healthier so that's more important than losing game, horrible as it was. Now if only Marner can perform in the playoffs (granted, that's a big if) then I like our chances.

Tight game doesn’t suit Mitch at all or that line for that matter jt looks good with him

I definitely like with him JT. It just kills me that Berube is keeping M&M together.

 

[Mr_Fun]

I wasn't paying much attention tonight but I just heard them say on TV (if I heard right) that the top line was a combined -17 tonight. LOL WTF!!

Oh well, just one game. The other night they got 10 points or whatever between them, tonight -17. I really don't care. Matthews looks healthier so that's more important than losing game, horrible as it was. Now if only Marner can perform in the playoffs (granted, that's a big if) then I like our chances.


I definitely like with him JT. It just kills me that Berube is keeping M&M together.

The only time they should be together is when you're down a goal in the 3rd and you need to roll the dice to try and get something going.

 

[ToneDog]

Tight game doesn’t suit Mitch at all or that line for that matter jt looks good with him

No worries, Berube will have coffee with him and get him prepped for the playoffs

The only time they should be together is when you're down a goal in the 3rd and you need to roll the dice to try and get something going.

Better check with them first to make sure it is OK.

 

[Gabriel426]

What scares me is that he was so bad against Florida and sure that's the only time we've been past round 1, but it adds some weight to the idea that once players adjust to playoff hockey, Marner's game just isn't effective. To be clear, if it's not just games 5/6/7 but every game after midway through round 1, that means he's of little value to a team trying to go deep.

It's weird. Most of the time he's just so good, he used to be my favorite player, one of the best Leafs I've ever seen and after game 86, it's like a switch is flipped and poof, he's gone. I would give a lot to see him be a playoff beast this spring, we have a pretty good team and he's such an important part of it, if he can do it this team could go places. All our stars need to bring it of course so it's not all on him, Marner's just the one who I have the least confidence in at this point.

That quote sounds vaguely familiar, it sounds like something Bowman might have said about Gainey but I don't remember the exact quote or who said it either. Great line though!

My High School Bball coach used to say that all the time in the basketball concept.

 

[ULF_55]

Tough stat line tonight

They did play a good team, but opposite from the nights you get gifts. Tonight just lumps of coal.

 

[All Mod Cons]

To be fair, and I love the guy as much as anyone, being -6 in a 6-3 loss is one of the worst performances I can remember.

He was playing very lazily and didn't look interested. Nylander would've been absolutely slaughtered for that performance. Thank Christ Marner is Canadian.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Front line got smoked which is very unusual. All you can do is write it off and move on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not a great night for the top line, but it's pretty exaggerated by the +/-. Of the 6 goals against, one was shorthanded, one was empty net, one was in the middle of a line change with Matthews/Marner just coming on, one was a random point shot without traffic, and one was OEL getting walked on a 2v3.

 

[ACC1224]

To be fair, and I love the guy as much as anyone, being -6 in a 6-3 loss is one of the worst performances I can remember.

He was playing very lazily and didn't look interested. Nylander would've been absolutely slaughtered for that performance. Thank Christ Marner is Canadian.

Matthews isn’t Canadian, barely a peep.

 

[ToneDog]

To be fair, and I love the guy as much as anyone, being -6 in a 6-3 loss is one of the worst performances I can remember.

He was playing very lazily and didn't look interested. Nylander would've been absolutely slaughtered for that performance. Thank Christ Marner is Canadian.

Last time two Leafs forwards were a combined -12, Bullard and Marois 1991 and they were not super elite, Selke nominees.

Last time a line was -17 in a game. Thrashers Kovalchuk, Heatley and Stephan, 2001. None were super elite, Selke nominees.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not a great night for the top line, but it's pretty exaggerated by the +/-. Of the 6 goals against, one was shorthanded, one was empty net, one was in the middle of a line change with Matthews/Marner just coming on, one was a random point shot without traffic, and one was OEL getting walked on a 2v3.

By this logic than, when they score a couple of empty netters or get a second assist while they leave the ice, we shouldn’t praise them either.

 

[ToneDog]

By this logic than, when they score a couple of empty netters or get a second assist while they leave the ice, we shouldn’t praise them either.

Nope but we should still pay them 51% of the cap.