Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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There’s some that have doubled down so often with empty calorie comments that there’s no turning back now.
It's the froth but you keep campaigning for Mitch because it is working. He might be at his peak like Willie was after the same 40 games last year.

Oh I defintely agree I even say so in the post that he gets more hate than others which is undeserved especially now that WN makes 11.5. It's gotten better the last year I'd say but that is because Matthews started off so badly and we didn't know of the injury during his play.

A part of me thinks if marner is smart he takes 12 on the dot. That gives him the look of taking less and only being .500k over nylander, putting some of his pressure and complaints onto Nylander.
Mitch did himself no favours with the way he and his camp handled his last contract. Add that he has shit the bed in the playoffs since and that the team has won f*** all and here we are, with him want to be paid Matthews or Draisaitl money.
 
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frizzer1

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Oct 19, 2013
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I couldn't watch my team with the inane corner the haters(not legit posters) have painted themselves into. He's on the ice more than any forward in the league, I couldn't take it. And all that matters is May, so tune out and go read a book, instead of arguing nothingness in January. Leave us fools to enjoy some winter hockey with a guy tearing it up, see you first round!
Of course the playoffs are the most important thing.
But I just love watching Marner play during the regular season.
It’s fun and very entertaining.
That’s why i watch hockey.
 

666

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Jun 27, 2005
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I couldn't watch my team with the inane corner the haters(not legit posters) have painted themselves into. He's on the ice more than any forward in the league, I couldn't take it. And all that matters is May, so tune out and go read a book, instead of arguing nothingness in January. Leave us fools to enjoy some winter hockey with a guy tearing it up, see you first round!
This. How do these people stand to watch a game like last night? I even saw a post earlier today with someone complaining about how Marner didn't deserve one of his assists. What goes on in your head to have to go out of your way and post something like that? They must be miserable. It's like going to a Robert Plant concert (showing my age) and being mad that he does Zeppelin songs.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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I couldn't watch my team with the inane corner the haters(not legit posters) have painted themselves into. He's on the ice more than any forward in the league, I couldn't take it. And all that matters is May, so tune out and go read a book, instead of arguing nothingness in January. Leave us fools to enjoy some winter hockey with a guy tearing it up, see you first round!
Honestly, I am trying because I agree with your take that they paid 34 and 88 so 16 will get paid. But if you want to left alone to enjoy some winter hockey, the "Ignore Thread" option is your friend. I blame Gary and his bullshit cap because before he introduced it, it was more enjoyable because most fans did not talk about or cared what players were being paid.
 
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ACC1224

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Hopefully they get the contract wrapped up by the 4 Nations so they can have no distractions during the playoff run.
 

Aashir Mallik

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Mitch did himself no favours with the way he and his camp handled his last contract. Add that he has shit the bed in the playoffs since and that the team has won f*** all and here we are, with him want to be paid Matthews or Draisaitl money.
i've sorta gotten over it with how badly all of the other contracts were too

nylander sat out, matthews had taken an nba level contract

as for the UFA contracts, nylander is a typical overpayment but matthews is a whole other case. He might be the first player ever where the reports where "AAV is sorted, but term is not"... How does that even make any f***ing sense. term and aav should be correlated but thats another trend that our 1C has broken.

when it comes to money, I find all three amigos just as guilty
 

666

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I want to see another playoff run before signing him so I'd wait, but to sign him now, I'd want him to come in at 12ish. His ceiling is Draisaitl who is a clear better player making 14, I can't see him making more than him as Drai has a better track record + playoffs. Just my opinon, but lets let's say in some hypothetical he finishes with 115 and does well in the playoffs, than I would be willing to pay the x million in extra as insurance. I don't think he can do anything to get more than 14 x 8 and even then I don't think anyone offers 16 to him.

That 1.6-2 million dollars could be the difference between a 5 million dollar defencemen or a 7 million dollar one, or rather that could be the difference
between having to let someone go to sign a roster player or losing them for marner. I think it's being undervalued a bit, just like it was during nylander's signing
Did you need to see another playoff run when Matthews signed? How bout Nylander? They accomplished arguably less than Marner in the playoffs.

The reason the people are unhappy about the previous contracts was because Covid froze the cap. The Leafs probably got screwed by that more than most teams and it really hurt their depth The cap will very soon be over $100M and even Nylander's bad $11.5 won't be an issue in a few years (assuming global pandemics or political disasters are rare).
 

Aashir Mallik

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Did you need to see another playoff run when Matthews signed? How bout Nylander? They accomplished arguably less than Marner in the playoffs.

The reason the people are unhappy about the previous contracts was because Covid froze the cap. The Leafs probably got screwed by that more than most teams and it really hurt their depth The cap will very soon be over $100M and even Nylander's bad $11.5 won't be an issue in a few years (assuming global pandemics or political disasters are rare).
funnily enough...yes i did

I was against signing nylander early and was/am disappointed in the matthews contract

nylander makes more than his comparables, and matthews went short term

it wasn't just covid,its that these guys either make more than their comparables or have the wrong ones set
 

DutchHockeyGuy

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Players without individual or collective hardware should not be classified as or paid as super stars. And the collective hardware should weigh heaviest in a team sport like hockey. It is a pretty selective group in the NHL.
 
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Racer88

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Did you need to see another playoff run when Matthews signed? How bout Nylander? They accomplished arguably less than Marner in the playoffs.

The reason the people are unhappy about the previous contracts was because Covid froze the cap. The Leafs probably got screwed by that more than most teams and it really hurt their depth The cap will very soon be over $100M and even Nylander's bad $11.5 won't be an issue in a few years (assuming global pandemics or political disasters are rare).
The Leafs got screwed by Covid more than most teams because their moronic GM went out and spent 11 million on Tavares when he was the last player we needed. He then failed to pivot and trade one or 2 of them when it became obvious that you couldn’t build a team with that cap construction.
It was not totally a Covid isssue but a Dubas issue
 
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Gary Nylund

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Of course the playoffs are the most important thing.
But I just love watching Marner play during the regular season.
It’s fun and very entertaining.
That’s why i watch hockey.
That's completely fair and there are many people that feel the same as you. Me, I badly want playoff success and no amount of regular season razzle dazzle makes up for his playoff failures. That's me though, there's no right or wrong here. I've said a number of times that during the regular season, few players are as much fun to watch as Marner so we're in complete agreement as far as that goes.

Did you need to see another playoff run when Matthews signed? How bout Nylander? They accomplished arguably less than Marner in the playoffs.
LOL. That's not even close to being true.
The reason the people are unhappy about the previous contracts was because Covid froze the cap. The Leafs probably got screwed by that more than most teams and it really hurt their depth The cap will very soon be over $100M and even Nylander's bad $11.5 won't be an issue in a few years (assuming global pandemics or political disasters are rare).
This is also wrong. The reason people are unhappy about the previous contracts (and I'm talking mostly about M&M&JT is because the team keeps failing in the playoffs, and one of the main reasons is that the production of these three who have been by far the highest paid players on the team has been nowhere their regular season levels. JT's been the worst in this regard, Marner close behind, then Matthews. Nylander is another story, his production does not drop off in the playoffs and he has provided good value for his contract in the playoffs (unlike the other three).
 
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Gary Nylund

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The Leafs got screwed by Covid more than most teams because their moronic GM went out and spent 11 million on Tavares when he was the last player we needed. He then failed to pivot and trade one or 2 of them when it became obvious that you couldn’t build a team with that cap construction.
It was not totally a Covid isssue but a Dubas issue
Yup. Covid hit us perhaps worse than any other team but Dubas didn't have to freeze like a deer caught in the headlights, he could have pivoted. The most obvious move was to trade Marner after we lost to MTL, to be fair though not too many people wanted that. I suggested it at the time and most people hated the idea. The responses were mostly things like "you just don't trade players like that" and "you never win trading a player like that" etc. Making a trade like that takes some balls, Dubas didn't have them but to be fair, most GM's probably would have kept betting on this core the way he did.
 
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DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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Honestly, I am trying because I agree with your take that they paid 34 and 88 so 16 will get paid. But if you want to left alone to enjoy some winter hockey, the "Ignore Thread" option is your friend. I blame Gary and his bullshit cap because before he introduced it, it was more enjoyable because most fans did not talk about or cared what players were being paid.
I use that function sparingly, but it’s nice for this thread that’s for sure.
 
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Mr_Fun

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I blame Gary and his bullshit cap because before he introduced it, it was more enjoyable because most fans did not talk about or cared what players were being paid.

Agreed there. The cap hurts the Leafs more than any other team. Also, if you're going to have a cap type system, then teams like Florida and Tampa shouldn't enjoy an advantage because of their tax breaks. Sorry, don't want to derail this thread, but I had to comment on that.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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Pre-cap the Leafs spent a ton and it didn’t work then, either.

The cap now just gives our dumb management one more thing to mismanage
Also protects them against their own stupidity. Imagine how much the corec4 would milk them for if there was no cap? But it would not be our money so fans would not care.
 

TopCheeseShotta

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Whats also kinda insane....
is at the halfway mark, Marner has 42 assists in 41 games. And empty, or not - flukey, or fortunate or whatever you want to call it - the next player on the team has half of his assists (Tavares - 21).

That's just bonkers.
 

francis246

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Nov 16, 2007
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Players without individual or collective hardware should not be classified as or paid as super stars. And the collective hardware should weigh heaviest in a team sport like hockey. It is a pretty selective group in the NHL.

That’s never how contracts have worked in pro sports. This is fantasy dream.

You guys preach that crap all the time and it’s just so far from reality. regular success matters in terms of contracts. How many cups did Justin Williams win? Why is he not one of the highest paid players in league history? How about Patrick Maroon?

Yes winning cups absolutely matters in terms of legacy and everything but the reality is, when it comes to getting paid, if you’re a plug in the regular season before the dance starts you’re not making shit. Doesn’t matter how good you are in the playoffs.
 
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francis246

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Agreed there. The cap hurts the Leafs more than any other team. Also, if you're going to have a cap type system, then teams like Florida and Tampa shouldn't enjoy an advantage because of their tax breaks. Sorry, don't want to derail this thread, but I had to comment on that.

I don’t understand why they don’t just copy the NBA model and introduce a luxury tax. If teams want to spend over the cap, they get heavily taxed for it and it might cost them 2-3 years after they win but it’ll be worth it. Also the NBA salary system where players make more money if they stay with the team that’s drafted them makes a ton of sense. It incentivizes players to stay with their team and if they want to leave they lose out on money, so they better be sure they want to leave. The NBA has gotten it right.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
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Whats also kinda insane....
is at the halfway mark, Marner has 42 assists in 41 games. And empty, or not - flukey, or fortunate or whatever you want to call it - the next player on the team has half of his assists (Tavares - 21).

That's just bonkers.
It is impressive. He has 5 goals and 15 assists on the PP (tied for 3rd with MacK, Makar and Necas) which makes sense because everything goes through him on the PP. I believe he is now top 10 in 5 vs 5 points which is a huge jump.

No points last night but 2 highlight plays. First thing I thought, was whether he can make those plays in the playoffs because if I am a dman, I would be looking to knock him on his ass. Not the case last night but as DarkKnight said, it woke up the crowd.
 

DarkKnight

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No. Stop focusing on only points, stop watching the puck and learn to watch the other 98% of the game.

"It's the time between the goals that Marner really shines."
- 666
And if he's the biggest playoff threat, why does the other team always put their best matchups against Mitch? Someone please inform the opposition coaches to visit here for guidance.
 

666

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Looked like a drill.

And here is the problem with the people who don't like Marner. There were no points associated with this play and even statistically it's just a shot on net. We don't measure the crowd going crazy and we don't measure the boost that it gave the team late in a tied game short handed. Every shift he does something away from the puck that these people don't see. We don't measure Marners magic between the goals.

And if he's the biggest playoff threat, why does the other team always put their best matchups against Mitch? Someone please inform the opposition coaches to visit here for guidance.
Yep. And why is he always on the ice in crucial moments? PP1, PK1, 3-3, 4-4, OT, SO he plays all the letters because the coaches and management know what they are doing.
 
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