Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Martin Skoula]

Acquiring a tier-2 forward by shaking down the bottom would require us to have seven min wagers.

Those tier-2 players are half the price of our forward stars, but those teams only have three stars and not the fourth, so they get two tier-2s instead of one star. Notwithstanding that their stars are cheaper as well to the tune of a whole nother tier-2 player.

The brass tacks is we're missing a middle tier up front for no other reason than the cost of the stars, with the counterpoint being that they can make up for it and then some.

Even if we assume the Tavares discount = the Marner raise on their next contracts, adding a Verhaeghe or Hagel would cost Domi + Kampf + Reaves. And that’s their UFA cost after putting up good seasons in the 3-5 mil range.

Again prior to this game the Kampf/Domi/Reaves group at 7-something mil combined had 0 goals, replacing them with minimum wagers would a sideways move at worst. If Domi picks it up from here that changes the calculus but so far we’ve survived 2 months getting minimum wage production from middle class cap hits.

 

[Gabriel426]

Even if we assume the Tavares discount = the Marner raise on their next contracts, adding a Verhaeghe or Hagel would cost Domi + Kampf + Reaves. And that’s their UFA cost after putting up good seasons in the 3-5 mil range.

Again prior to this game the Kampf/Domi/Reaves group at 7-something mil combined had 0 goals, replacing them with minimum wagers would a sideways move at worst. If Domi picks it up from here that changes the calculus but so far we’ve survived 2 months getting minimum wage production from middle class cap hits.

Honestly, the money from Kampf + Calle for one player is 4.5mil. Thats a pretty solid mid 6 player or ROR.
I don't think the difference between JT and his new contract will be MM.
As I think MM will at most get 1-1.5mil more than his current contract from the Leafs, if Leafs choose to sign him.
Woll new deal is 2.85mil more than his current deal.
McCabe new deal is 2.51mil more than Leafs paying him.
Thats 6.86mil from the JT's current deal, which leave 4.14mil.

Thats 4.14mil plus 4.5mil from trading Kampf and Calle will be use for Knies' new deal and resigning JT(if Leafs choose to). Lets say both Knies and JT can be sign with that amount.

Leafs lineup next season will be exactly the same as they are today plus another player in the 2-4mil range due to the cap increase.

Unless the boys actually do go on a deep run or winning the Cup, I just don't see how we can bring them all back and hope Minten, Cowan and others will dominate to a point where they are performing like a 3-5mil player.

 

[arso40]

Honestly, the money from Kampf + Calle for one player is 4.5mil. Thats a pretty solid mid 6 player or ROR.
I don't think the difference between JT and his new contract will be MM.
As I think MM will at most get 1-1.5mil more than his current contract from the Leafs, if Leafs choose to sign him.
Woll new deal is 2.85mil more than his current deal.
McCabe new deal is 2.51mil more than Leafs paying him.
Thats 6.86mil from the JT's current deal, which leave 4.14mil.

Thats 4.14mil plus 4.5mil from trading Kampf and Calle will be use for Knies' new deal and resigning JT(if Leafs choose to). Lets say both Knies and JT can be sign with that amount.

Leafs lineup next season will be exactly the same as they are today plus another player in the 2-4mil range due to the cap increase.

Unless the boys actually do go on a deep run or winning the Cup, I just don't see how we can bring them all back and hope Minten, Cowan and others will dominate to a point where they are performing like a 3-5mil player.

All three of those kids next year alone changes the cap hit or or atleast offsets it

 

[thewave]

AM is underperformed with Mitch Marner currently. Put MM with JT and give WN a try with AM. Mitch was performing well with JT anyways so what's the freaking issue or is Berube Keefe 2.0

Such BS watching another coach turn into an imbecile here.

 

[hullsy47]

AM is underperformed with Mitch Marner currently. Put MM with JT and give WN a try with AM. Mitch was performing well with JT anyways so what's the freaking issue or is Berube Keefe 2.0

Such BS watching another coach turn into an imbecile here.

i agree looks like a coach letting these guys coach themselves .if the leafs flounder in the playoffs ,next year willbe berubes team

 

[Racer88]

AM is underperformed with Mitch Marner currently. Put MM with JT and give WN a try with AM. Mitch was performing well with JT anyways so what's the freaking issue or is Berube Keefe 2.0

Such BS watching another coach turn into an imbecile here.

I’m not sure if I would want to handcuff Tavares by putting him with Matthews simply because Matthews line mates sole job it to get him the puck thus reducing their own effectiveness

i agree looks like a coach letting these guys coach themselves .if the leafs flounder in the playoffs ,next year willbe berubes team

This core plays the way they want to play and no coach is going to tell them any difference.
When the ring leader Matthews was out the hit ,scratched and clawed out wins They also stood up for one another………….thats all gone the last 5-6 games

 

[Racer88]

AM is underperformed with Mitch Marner currently. Put MM with JT and give WN a try with AM. Mitch was performing well with JT anyways so what's the freaking issue or is Berube Keefe 2.0

Such BS watching another coach turn into an imbecile here.

Sadly we all know who is really running the show. Shanny and the gang of 4

 

[Hallonbroder]

Why do you want to take apart your best line atm and put Marner with Tavares? Isn’t Marner good enough to run his own line? I mean, he’s a 14 mil player according to a lot of peeps here

 

[Funk21]

Tre really got taken to the woodshed by Willies agent but obviously Shanny approved. No reason to expect he will display any more spine with Miitch. If they wouldn't take less than "full value" for a Willie trade. is there any chance Marner goes for nothing? I don't think he is worth 12.5 but they would pay that an I don't think he would sweat them for more. It will get done but it seems like the Dubas era salary cap allocation isn't going to change.

It was stupid not to sign him in the offseason if they were going to. It ended up costing another 2 million per.

Now the difference is Willy was underpaid for the past 3 years.

Marner has been overpaid for the past 6. Personally id like to move on. Unless he is willing to sign for 11.5 which we know will never happen.

Ideally I’d love a big hockey trade with MM being traded for a top RHD. Yes I get that RHD hold more value than RW but that would be the hope.

 

[DarkKnight]

Reading these reports, talk the cap could be up 19.3% in the next two years. You can afford three “big” contracts with that math, you can also stop using out dated numbers like they have anything to do with reality. I mean it’s your world, but it has nothing to do with what agents and GM’s around the league are computing. Things are changing, inflation is real and certain numbers aren’t as egregious as you argued months ago.

 

[thusk]

Over Marner's career he goes from a 100 point player to a 40 point player after game 4 of the playoffs. I think it's hard to argue that that doesn't mean anything, in fact I'd say that's just really bad. Overall, he goes from a 100 point player to a 70 point player in the playoffs, again I think it's hard to argue that that doesn't mean anything.

With the bigger cap hit comes higher expectations, that's true of course. And the same will be true for Marner, at least I assume he'll be in a higher salary bracket next season, we'll see.

It is an issue? yes for sure

but production doesn't show everything, i giving you an exemple. matthews line overal was looking good last playoff...

Gm 1: they cost 2 goal because of bad penalty

gm 2 : been great and carry the team

gm 3: cost 2 goal, 1 from a bad penalty and 1 from awful coverage last in 3rd

gm 4: cost 2 goal, one from bad penalty and one from terrible backcheck

Can we say they had a good serie? They finished with better stats than marner line but at the same time the line responsible of 60% of bruins goal gm 1-3-4 and probably the reason #1 why leafs was down 1-3. Can we really say they was a better line in playoff whatever what offensive stats said?

When i said stats doesn't tell everything, it's just an exemple of it, I can do a similar comparaison with 2023 tampa series...

Did Marner need to be better in playoff? yeah for sure and everyome is agree with this but its the same with Matthews, Nylander and JT... none of those player was even close to be good enough. I just don't like double standard acting like Marner was trash and the rest was better when it was not the case.

 

[Hallonbroder]

It is an issue? yes for sure

but production doesn't show everything, i giving you an exemple. matthews line overal was looking good last playoff...

Gm 1: they cost 2 goal because of bad penalty

gm 2 : been great and carry the team

gm 3: cost 2 goal, 1 from a bad penalty and 1 from awful coverage last in 3rd

gm 4: cost 2 goal, one from bad penalty and one from terrible backcheck

Can we say they had a good serie? They finished with better stats than marner line but at the same time the line responsible of 60% of bruins goal gm 1-3-4 and probably the reason #1 why leafs was down 1-3. Can we really say they was a better line in playoff whatever what offensive stats said?

When i said stats doesn't tell everything, it's just an exemple of it, I can do a similar comparaison with 2023 tampa series...

Did Marner need to be better in playoff? yeah for sure and everyome is agree with this but its the same with Matthews, Nylander and JT... none of those player was even close to be good enough. I just don't like double standard acting like Marner was trash and the rest was better when it was not the case.

What you’re saying is what the deniers have been preaching now for years, but let me put it this way - in game 7 last spring, Nylander scored the go-ahead goal, assisted be Matthews. Marner, being the Selke-level two-way force that he is, on the other hand, lost his marking and let Pastrnak run away from him, which led to the Maple Leafs being eliminated.

 

[BraveCanadian]

What you’re saying is what the deniers have been preaching now for years, but let me put it this way - in game 7 last spring, Nylander scored the go-ahead goal, assisted be Matthews. Marner, being the Selke-level two-way force that he is, on the other hand, lost his marking and let Pastrnak run away from him, which led to the Maple Leafs being eliminated.

lol we're going back to that now are we? wheeeee

 

[DarkKnight]

lol we're going back to that now are we? wheeeee

Of course we are! Hey let's rehash this one too, since we're being so fair. Playoff warrior! I mean, I'm being facetious but it's hilarious how people rehash a debatable play over and over and over and over to fit some weak ass narrative. Anyways enjoy!

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Yeah Marner's stick handling ain't bad this year. But what's Larry going to say next time he needs a haircut

 

[BraveCanadian]

Of course we are! Hey let's rehash this one too, since we're being so fair. Playoff warrior! I mean, I'm being facetious but it's hilarious how people rehash a debatable play over and over and over and over to fit some weak ass narrative. Anyways enjoy!

Hey, that is our (supposed) playoff stud right there, how dare you!

 

[Hallonbroder]

It’s becoming quite obvious (I mean it already was ofc) that you guys just want your hometown boy to get paid, instead of having your team winning anything, eh? Also, the way you’re taking that example about Nylander also shows that you’re just as mature as that kid that threw a fit on the bench last playoffs. I just can’t understand why, but it seems more and more likely that it’s because he’s…Canadian?

 

[Metroid]

It’s becoming quite obvious (I mean it already was ofc) that you guys just want your hometown boy to get paid, instead of having your team winning anything, eh? Also, the way you’re taking that example about Nylander also shows that you’re just as mature as that kid that threw a fit on the bench last playoffs. I just can’t understand why, but it seems more and more likely that it’s because he’s…Canadian?

Sure thing antropovskys alt account.

 

[DarkKnight]

It’s becoming quite obvious (I mean it already was ofc) that you guys just want your hometown boy to get paid, instead of having your team winning anything, eh? Also, the way you’re taking that example about Nylander also shows that you’re just as mature as that kid that threw a fit on the bench last playoffs. I just can’t understand why, but it seems more and more likely that it’s because he’s…Canadian?

You brought up Nylander bud. I have a signed Sundin, try another lame one.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

No, some people can't count.

Why does Florida have depth and we don't? We spend the same on depth and D.

Yup. Kampf and Reaves were clearly bad signings before the ink was dry but Domi going pointless 16? games in a row and counting is concerning. Some did say that he would slack off if he was signed for more than a year. He might be too comfortable or has an injury that is affecting him.

Book shake a Lake a. I need another beer and cookie. Smesh

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

You brought up Nylander bud. I have a signed Sundin, try another lame one.

Oof.

They're gettin desperate out here!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Did Marner need to be better in playoff? yeah for sure and everyome is agree with this but its the same with Matthews, Nylander and JT... none of those player was even close to be good enough. I just don't like double standard acting like Marner was trash and the rest was better when it was not the case.

I've never said this so why respond to my post with this nonsense? You remind me of that guy that keeps changing the subject to Kucherov when he's out of arguments but in any case, this strawman argument adds nothing to the conversation.

As far as Nylander is concerned, he has delivered good value for his cap hit in the playoffs, Marner has not. That fact that Marner and Nylander have been decent compareables over the last few years only shows what a disappointment Marner has been considering he has been making more than 50% more than Nylander which is quite the gap.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner/Tavares lead Leafs with 17 5vs5 points. 48 5v5 points for $33.5m.

$11.5m Nylander

 

[BraveCanadian]

Marner/Tavares lead Leafs with 17 5vs5 points. 48 5v5 points for $33.5m.

View attachment 946213

$11.5m Nylander

View attachment 946215

Point being?

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Just give me the light and watch them roll

Matthews needs a new high and it's not a goal.