A reminder to some that Kucherov (considered one of the best playoff performers) has 0 points in game 7s and the guy who everyone says is a waste of cap space won us a series.
Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
A reminder to some that Kucherov (considered one of the best playoff performers) has 0 points in game 7s and the guy who everyone says is a waste of cap space won us a series.
Maple Leaf
VIP
- Sep 18, 2009
- 9,928
- 5,151
Well personally I can't defend the leafs playoff performance as they are one of the worst performing playoff teams I have seen
Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
Not sure why Marner's market value is in such fluctuation all the time. The room's structure is pretty much obvious to the management.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 81,861
- 59,843
Yeah, the goal is to win a Stanley Cup by getting better personnel, not making mandate changes for the sake of change. We have no idea what this team would look like without Mitch or a replacement.
I'd say watch more hockey...
No one defends them and says they perform well or that the stars perform well.
I just think how poorly the stars perform and how poorly the Leafs do in the playoffs is overblown.
Last edited:
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
The difference is Tampa wins game #7s and the Leafs lose them. Lose them and Kutch will hear it. The other difference is Kutch is a Hart candidate year in and year out and is paid $1.5m less than Marner and Marner is looking for a $2-3m raise.
What has Mitch won in the NHL? The Molson Cup?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 81,861
- 59,843
Kucherov had 66 playoff points in his back to back cup win seasons in 2020 and 2021 alone, which is more than any of our core players have had in their entire careers.
Looking for the least flattering comparables and nitpicking them doesn't really help whatever point you're trying to make.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
It is a catch 22, you cannot surround them with the supporting cast they need if you continue to pay the most money to a few. God knows Dubas tried everything and Tre is now paying for it.
You are proving my point... the team matters... blaming Marner or saying we can't win with him is pointless when it is a team game.
That poster specifically brought up game 7s.
Looking at a post without context doesn't really help whatever point you're trying to make.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 81,861
- 59,843
Sure, someone else can carry Marner to a championship, but that doesn't say anything about the value of Marner as an individual cornerstone piece. I think an elite player like Marner would want to be a difference maker and not make excuses about not winning because it's a team game.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
The management team that has one playoff win in 10 years under Shanny? Clearly they are doing something wrong IMO.
But alas you are right, the room's structure is pretty much obvious to the management.
Darcy Tucker
My Name is Bob
No one is making excuses, I am questioning how people discuss specific players because it only seems to sometimes apply.
Does someone carry Kucherov to championships?
This is what I am asking... we are discussing game 7s which Kucherov needs help to win.
To me, it is a team game and we need contributions throughout the lineup, but people single out individual players as the biggest problem when it's usually been depth scoring and shaky goaltending in crucial games.
Bingo! That has been my point exactly. And I’m not sure why we want to try and bank on UFA to make those changes. I think you sign Marner and if things don’t work, play hard ball and force a trade eventually. If Rantanen is willing to come here I think you entertain that swap, otherwise you’re dropping 90-100 points from your lineup that will be extremely hard to replace regardless of what you think his playoff performances are. You might end up where not having that 90-100 points in the reg season costs you missing the playoffs.
Doesn’t this post just prove you can’t depend on one player to win? So blaming Marner is pretty crazy?
It’s a team game. Them losing game 7’s isn’t necessarily because of Marner. It’s because as a team they do not get it done. Just like Tampa. If Kucherov is not producing, other guys have to step up and that’s been Toronto’s issue. Other guys don’t step up if one is having a bad game. Collectively in deciding games they’ve been terrible.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
I've never blamed Marner alone for their playoff failure. I blame the core. When you demand the big bucks, you are expected to produce when it matters because there isn't much money to pay for quality depth that can step up. This has been the case since Dubas handed them all the money. How can you compete with good teams that are paying their stars 25% less than yours and their stars can neutralize yours? They've locked into 34 and 88 already (I hate both cap hits). Locking in Marner at $13m pretty much seals this team's fate IMO. Hence why my position is, do not sign him until we see what he does in the playoffs under Berube. Shit the bed again and GTFO.
Exactamundo. There's a plausible scenario where we trade Marner and we become Ottawa or worse (and yes, I'm well aware there's a plausible scenario where we trade Marner and become cup candidates). I'm not saying never trade Marner or or not sign him, but there's sizeable amounts of risk no matter what. I'm glad I'm not the one to make the call.
Signing him is a no brainer. He is flourishing in Berubes system. We’re already seeing how this will serve us well in the playoffs. We’ll see what happens, but I wouldn’t be worried about signing him today.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,279
- 24,737
It's not just game 7's, it's every game after the first 4 games of the playoffs which includes a whole mess of game 5/6/7s plus the entire series the one time they made past the 1st round.
It's not like this hasn't been explained to you before, carry on with the excuses.
LOL. I think I'll wait a bit before saying this. Like you know, until we actually see how he does in the playoffs.
It's not just game 7's, it's every game after the first 4 games of the playoffs which includes a whole mess of game 5/6/7s plus the entire series the one time they made past the 1st round.
Why don't you break it down by game then?
Why do only those games matter?
Wouldn't game 7s be the most high stakes so this argument is more important?
It is just a stupid argument, simple as that.
No one ever responds to the Kucherov thing other than "Well he puts up lots of points", but those same people will also then ignore that Marner puts up the most points on our team.
For example, your response was just to expand the silly criteria of game 7s to 5s and 6s... but we are supposed to ignore 1, 2, 3, and 4, for some reason.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Who buys a used car that is known to fail to start in cold weather, for top dollar without testing driving it in cold weather first? Check that, I think I can name half a dozen.
It's not just game 7's, it's every game after the first 4 games of the playoffs which includes a whole mess of game 5/6/7s plus the entire series the one time they made past the 1st round.
It's not like this hasn't been explained to you before, carry on with the excuses.
LOL. I think I'll wait a bit before saying this. Like you know, until we actually see how he does in the playoffs.
Lmao if Mitch only had half a dozen supporters he would be long gone, it wouldn’t even be a question. Why you can’t understand that beats me. The majority of fans want to keep Mitch.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,279
- 24,737
The concern is that once everyone settles into playoff style hockey, Marner is no longer effective. So he's good for the first few games while everyone's adjusting, then not. Again, it's been explained to you many times before and every time you start babbling about Kucherov and pretending that it's all about game 7. Carry on.
Ah okay, so playoff hockey starts immediately at game 5.
Anything to back this up or did you just make this up to hate on Marner?
I am not sure I've ever seen you use anything but feelings in posts.
And yes, I always use Kucherov because it is an extreme example and no one has pointed out how it is relevant for Marner and not for Kucherov.
