Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[notDatsyuk]

Wilson produces like a 3rd liner, and so did Hyman until McDavid started banking pucks off of him...

I'd likely take the guy who produces like a first-liner in the playoffs and doesn't rely on others to do so, but maybe other people want a team full of role players.

This team had Hyman, and he produced like a third/fourth liner. Why do people think he would magically produce like he does with McDavid without McDavid?

Last three playoffs:

A - 0.80 ppg, 0.40 gpg
B - 1.00 ppg, 0.24 gpg
C - 0.92 ppg, 0.57 gpg

Clearly one of those three is a 1st liner and the other two are 3rd liners.

 

[notbias]

Last three playoffs:

A - 0.80 ppg, 0.40 gpg
B - 1.00 ppg, 0.24 gpg
C - 0.92 ppg, 0.57 gpg

Clearly one of those three is a 1st liner and the other two are 3rd liners.

Which one of those was Hyman playing for the Leafs as I stated in my post?

Wilson has a PPG of 0.54 in the last three playoffs...

What are you talking about?

 

[Maple Leaf]

Which one of those was Hyman playing for the Leafs as I stated in my post?

Wilson has a PPG of 0.54 in the last three playoffs...

What are you talking about?

Last three playoffs:

A - 0.80 ppg, 0.40 gpg
B - 1.00 ppg, 0.24 gpg
C - 0.92 ppg, 0.57 gpg

Am i right?

 

[notbias]

Last three playoffs:

A - 0.80 ppg, 0.40 gpg
B - 1.00 ppg, 0.24 gpg
C - 0.92 ppg, 0.57 gpg

Am i right?

Are you using a 5 game sample size (two playoffs) for Wilson and not using the last three playoffs he played in?

That is pointless, carry on with your cherry-picked stats...

Also, are those Hyman's playoff stats away from McDavid as I mentioned? No? Okay, silly stats as well...

Reading is hard on these boards...

 

[Mr_Fun]

162 point pace with Holmberg. You do the math.

Wow, I was so wrong about that guy.

 

[Confucius]

The ship has already sailed on that one.. Matthew$ and Nylander ate up the latest increase so we’re waiting for JT’s crazy number to come off the books to make some space now.

Could have a ton of room
Don’t pay Marner 12+, reduce JT by 4, cap going up by 5+ = over 21 anyway. Add 3, 7 million dollar guys and lose Mitch.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Dubas had held the line on Nylander this team would have paid significantly less for their core during these RFA years.

He did hold the line on Nylander. Nylander caved to the Leaf's number. It's time for people to accept that there was zero magical way to get the core for less money during their RFA years, no matter what we did. It's always been what those caliber of players get.

We now know the results of the top heavy salary distribution

You incorrectly assume that the outcomes are a direct result of the salary distribution, even though it's really had nothing to do with the salary distribution.
A top heavy salary distribution is in fact how most cups are won.

 

[Leafsfan74]

He did hold the line on Nylander. Nylander caved to the Leaf's number. It's time for people to accept that there was zero magical way to get the core for less money during their RFA years, no matter what we did. It's always been what those caliber of players get.

You incorrectly assume that the outcomes are a direct result of the salary distribution, even though it's really had nothing to do with the salary distribution.
A top heavy salary distribution is in fact how most cups are won.

Not for four forwards. Two forwards, a #1 goalie and #1 D man maybe.

When these forwards fail to score, as they do often in the playoffs, the team is in trouble.

 

[Puckstuff]

I would easily sign Marner for the same as Nylander

12 + m is where it gets “interesting”

Every 0.5 m above Nylander makes me feel less satisfied.

11.5-12.5 is fine.

Once it goes beyond 12.5 is where I really start to think about this.

 

[Smif]

Could have a ton of room
Don’t pay Marner 12+, reduce JT by 4, cap going up by 5+ = over 21 anyway. Add 3, 7 million dollar guys and lose Mitch.

Which three $7M guys?

 

[Evilhomer]

Which three $7M guys?

Oh man, I hope one of them is Tyler Bertuzzi again!

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

I would easily sign Marner for the same as Nylander

12 + m is where it gets “interesting”

Every 0.5 m above Nylander makes me feel less satisfied.

11.5-12.5 is fine.

Once it goes beyond 12.5 is where I really start to think about this.

Tre really got taken to the woodshed by Willies agent but obviously Shanny approved. No reason to expect he will display any more spine with Miitch. If they wouldn't take less than "full value" for a Willie trade. is there any chance Marner goes for nothing? I don't think he is worth 12.5 but they would pay that an I don't think he would sweat them for more. It will get done but it seems like the Dubas era salary cap allocation isn't going to change.

 

[notbias]

Which three $7M guys?

I think 1.5 of them will be the raises of McCabe, Knies, and Woll.

 

[Hallonbroder]

I would easily sign Marner for the same as Nylander

12 + m is where it gets “interesting”

Every 0.5 m above Nylander makes me feel less satisfied.

11.5-12.5 is fine.

Once it goes beyond 12.5 is where I really start to think about this.

You’d think that Marners play the last couple of playoffs would deter anyone of signing him to that kind of contract. Also, wanting to keep a core of forwards that can’t win is pretty weird too

 

[Confucius]

I think 1.5 of them will be the raises of McCabe, Knies, and Woll.

Well if that’s the case, we can’t afford him anyway even at 11.

 

[Confucius]

Which three $7M guys?

Provorov, ekblad, Chychurn

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not for four forwards.

The distinction is meaningless. They provide significant offensive and defensive impacts, like any other combination. The only thing they don't provide is goaltending impacts, but that has never correlated well with pay anyway.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Provorov, ekblad, Chychurn

7m isn't going to get any of those guys. It would be a pay cut for two of them. Very unlikely we consider Provorov for other reasons. But besides the unfeasibility, your big plan for a team that is currently 6th defensively and 16th offensively is to remove one of the best offensive players in the league, in order to spend 21m on 3 defenseman we don't need? Which of our 3.5m+ defenseman is going to be our 7th D for the next 3 years?

 

[Confucius]

7m isn't going to get any of those guys. It would be a pay cut for two of them. Very unlikely we consider Provorov for other reasons. But besides the unfeasibility, your big plan for a team that is currently 6th defensively and 16th offensively is to remove one of the best offensive players in the league, in order to spend 21m on 3 defenseman we don't need? Which of our 3.5m+ defenseman is going to be our 7th D for the next 3 years?

Chychurn only makes 4.6 now, that will be quite the raise. Yes, I would trade the dmen we have now for similarly paid forwards. I wouldn’t pay a winger 12+ million, when we already have one. It’s a close call though for 11 I keep him.

 

[LeafSteel]

Lol @Marner asking for $14m.

I send him on his way and go hard for UFAs Bennet and Ekblad.

Those guys make us better and more balanced than Marner, regardless of what Marner does or doesn’t do in the playoffs.

For a guy who says how much he loves playing in his hometown and wants to stay, his contract negotiation history points in the opposite direction.

 

[ACC1224]

Provorov, ekblad, Chychurn

I don't think 3 more defenseman is the right answer.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Leafs are an average offensive team and top 3 in goals against so of course the way forward is to drop Marner to sign more defensemen!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, I would trade the dmen we have now for similarly paid forwards.

Okay, so the big plan, as a strong defensive team with mid-tier offense, is:
1. Let one of the best offensive and defensive forwards in the league walk.
2. Hope that those 3 defensemen don't re-sign.
3. Hope that Toronto management will accept signing a bigot.
4. Hope that these players all want to sign in Toronto.
5. Hope that these players all want to take pay cuts and/or less money than they could get elsewhere.
6. Sign them.
7. Hope that our current defensemen are all willing to waive their NMC/NTCs.
8. Hope that we can find teams willing to take these contracts with significant term into old age, and hope that they have similarly priced forwards that they are willing to trade back.
9. Trade them for similarly priced forwards.
10. Figure out a way to remove 5m from the cap.
And after all of that, if everything goes to plan, we get to be about the same defensively, and worse offensively. Hooray!

 

[Confucius]

Okay, so the big plan, as a strong defensive team with mid-tier offense, is:
1. Let one of the best offensive and defensive forwards in the league walk.
2. Hope that those 3 defensemen don't re-sign.
3. Hope that Toronto management will accept signing a bigot.
4. Hope that these players all want to sign in Toronto.
5. Hope that these players all want to take pay cuts and/or less money than they could get elsewhere.
6. Sign them.
7. Hope that our current defensemen are all willing to waive their NMC/NTCs.
8. Hope that we can find teams willing to take these contracts with significant term into old age, and hope that they have similarly priced forwards that they are willing to trade back.
9. Trade them for similarly priced forwards.
10. Figure out a way to remove 5m from the cap.
And after all of that, if everything goes to plan, we get to be about the same defensively, and worse offensively. Hooray!

Try and be more positive. Lol
Overpaying Mitch does not improve this team at all