Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[francis246]

That's not the question I asked. I asked how many of those contracts you want on your team? If you don't want a single contract on your team - then how is that an argument for Marner.

I would not take Marner over Panarin. Panarin is a better passer and goalscorer than Marner. The rest of them are whatever. Maybe Eichel at 10M over Marner at 12M.. but I'd prefer neither.

Marner isn't our 'star'. We got two stars already. Marner is one of 4 pieces we currently have. You can find value in players that are cheaper. Look of UFA signing's in the 5M range that worked out well - Hyman, Strome, Patrick Kane, etc. Just use the money wisely, don't go overpaying for a Mikheyev and you're okay.

If we let both Marner and Tavares walk (or take a massive discount) we can rebuild our entire team. Assuming both Marner and Tavares walk, and Marner wanted 12M+ - that's 23M in cap space. You can sign four 5M dollar players for that amount - or take on contracts across the league without retention. That would give us way more depth than Marner/Tavares.

Both Matthews and Nylander are fine without Marner. Marner is a great player, but he's not worth his contract. He held out for one of the highest RFA contracts of all time his last contract and I expect him to want one of the highest UFA contracts of all time on his next one. He's not worth the cost. Tampa just walked away from their captain who won them 2 Cups and they didn't miss a step - they replaced him with Guentzel - was that a downgrade or upgrade?

Marner not a star? Haha

Rebuild your team how exactly? Right now we barely have any picks, barely have any top prospects. We don’t have the assets at the moment to even acquire a Guentzel for example. We struggle 5 on 5 and you wanna let two of our best players walk to UFA to sign who exactly? Some mediocre 30+ guys? UFA is a huge gamble, the players have to want to come here. I don’t know if you’ve taken a look at this years UFA, but it’s complete trash. It’s top heavy and not much scoring depth available.

None of the UFA examples you listed are available this year, so that point is moot. I’m not saying your perspective is wrong, but it’s just a realistic option given who’s available. There is no Hyman, there is no Blake Coleman.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Thats fine if you "don't care" but your presence here and now in November says that you do care, so either be honest and stop with the tired refrain or stand by your bold proclimations and simply vamoose until April. You shouldnt even watch until then. But guys like you are liars, you're the ones crying the loudest when the leafs shit the bed like they did against ottawa. Then all of a sudden the regular season games mean something when you got something to complain about.

You complain about my honesty then call me a liar. Do you lack the intelligence to see your own hypocrisy? Get lost and don't answer that since the answer is so obvious.

 

[Racer88]

The #1 Marner issu is when he thinking too much. East-West keefe system where the majority of scoring chance was coming off the rush, he was looking too much all the time how he could pass the puck and exemple in 2v1 with JT, he would certainly try to find every way to pass it to tavares... tonight he just keep it simple, he saw an opportunity and he jump on it. Keep it simple, goes to the net and take your chance...

... And chance off the rush is not really Marner strenght, its more Nylander strenght so that why i had more doubt about Nylander under Berube than Marner but it's an other story ( and both doing good job this season)

Marner always had great work ethic, defensive 1st mind and why whatever if it was Babcock, Keefe or Berube... Marner always been #1 player they trust in any kind of situation whatever what. The difference right now is he react to the game unstead or thinking about what he should do. If he can translate it on the playoff, he will be amaizing

Hopefully it continues once Mathews comes back.

 

[Divine]

Marner not a star? Haha

Rebuild your team how exactly? Right now we barely have any picks, barely have any top prospects. We don’t have the assets at the moment to even acquire a Guentzel for example. We struggle 5 on 5 and you wanna let two of our best players walk to UFA to sign who exactly? Some mediocre 30+ guys? UFA is a huge gamble, the players have to want to come here. I don’t know if you’ve taken a look at this years UFA, but it’s complete trash. It’s top heavy and not much scoring depth available.

None of the UFA examples you listed are available this year, so that point is moot. I’m not saying your perspective is wrong, but it’s just a realistic option given who’s available. There is no Hyman, there is no Blake Coleman.

Marner is not our only star. He’s never been our star like the previous poster has been saying. Not many on this board would pick Marner over Matthews. So no, he isn’t our star player.

Rebuild through FA and trades. Cap space is an asset. Tampa Bay just acquired Jake Guentzel for free as a FA, they didn’t give up assets for him. They let their captain walk and signed him. The Rangers did the same thing with Panarin. CBJ did the same thing with Gaudreau (RIP). The Habs got Laine for free by virtue of taking his cap hit. The Leafs acquired Tavares solely using cap space. Cap space is an asset that not many teams have. Stop looking at draft picks as the only asset. People trade draft picks for cap space.

Rantanen is a UFA this summer and he’s better than Marner. McDavid is a UFA next summer and he’s better than Marner. Put yourself in a position to succeed.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I love how you use the 12 million mark as a barometer to talk about the 40 goals. How many players are making 12 million + right now?

In fact go check how many 11 or 10 million players have scored 40. The list is small brother. Panarin I think hit 40 for the first time last year and prior to that he was also barely a 30 goal scorer. Marner has had similar 30 goal seasons like Panarin to be fair.


Let’s look at other high paid forwards who have had less career highs or similar career highs in goals to Marner.

Huberdeau - career high 30 goals twice (10.5 million)
Panarin - career high 42 last year, played a full 82. Prior to that, career high of 32. Didnt score 30 for 3 seasons prior to his 42.
Kopitar - career high of 35
Eichel - career high of 36

People on here milk the 40 goal thing so much. Very few players reach 40 goals. We don’t need Marner to be a 40 goal guy. We need him to drive offense in the playoffs

The issue isn’t even about Marner’s shot. It’s a good shot. The issue is Marner doesn’t shoot enough. And that problem is increased when he plays along side Auston because he is hyper focused on getting Auston the puck. Marner just needs to shoot more, he could be a 35+ goal scorer in his sleep if he did.

The only reason 40 is the bar for these people is because Nylander got 11.5 and hit exactly 40.

 

[Divine]

The only reason 40 is the bar for these people is because Nylander got 11.5 and hit exactly 40.

Hit exactly 40 twice and leads the team scoring yet again this season and Marner wants more than him. Marner held out for 10.9M as an RFA - you think he settles for 11.5 as a UFA?

No player has never not hit 40 goals and got 12M dollars. This isn’t even debateable, it’s a fact.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Against Edmonton, Mitchy showed up, he took charge, he took responsibility, he led, he shot when he should. I often question his value to Leafs.
I cannot question him in most games this season. I may have to rethink my position on his value.

 

[thusk]

1.) That's because Marner can score easy goals. He's scoring goals on 2 on 1's and rebounds. He can't score goals when there's no space. Why is it in the playoffs his goal scoring disappears? He doesn't even score at a 20 goal pace in the playoffs. He had a good game against Montreal. He scored a 2 on 1 goal tonight in 3v3, another on a 6 on 4 PP. You notice the pattern? Lots of space out there - either due to bad teams, or 3 on 3 hockey. You don't get that in the playoffs.

2.) Marner has scored more than 30 goals twice in his 8 year career. I don't care about his 'pace'. No player in NHL history has made 12M without scoring at least 40 goals on their previous contract contract - this guy barely scores 30.

3.) Yes, Marner is a great passer. So is Kucherov, McDavid, MacKinnon. The difference is, when you pay those guys they can pass AND score 40+ goals for you. Marner can't.

Here's the key point. Marner is a great player - but if you got to pick any player in the league to pay 12M+ to, Marner would be far down that list.

Look at Rantanen, makes less than Marner, is going to be a UFA this offseason also. Scored 50+ goals. Great passer. Physical. Leads the Avs in scoring nearly every playoffs. Guess what? His cap hit is probably going to be lower than Marner's (again). There's the problem with Marner right there. He wants to be one of the top 5 highest paid guys in the league - but every single one of those players can shoot AND pass the puck.

1- The only easy goal he scored was mtl goal when he fighting, never forfeit on the play and come back in front ( something than 98% of people would not do) to score an empty net goal

10 of 12 Nylander goal ( vs 5 of 6 marner goal) was 2v1 goal, just sent a puck in an empty net or rebound goal, Who's care?
Majority of hyman goal was off rebound or redirected puck , who's care ? Sorry but this one really look like someone really searching something to complain about it.

2- Salary cap rising up and actually only 3 player was winning 12M, that will raise and nobody really know what's Marner want... All this are just speculation right now

3- If Berube is able to bring out in his system the marner under babcock vs Boston where he completly outplayed thr Bergeron-Marchand-Pastrnak line ( who was maybe best nhl line at this time) with 35 y/o plekanec and 38 y/o marleau. Marner becoming more important for the leafs for the only reason he would be able to produce at high rate and outplayed /shutdown top opposite weapon. Yesterday game is a great exemple where he outplayed mcdavid line

If marner can translate his actual game in playoff like he did under babcock in 2018, he will make leafs much more better than any other mive they could do

PS Mcdavid will sign over 14M if not 15 M in his new contract and mackinnon would probably sign around 13 to 14 M if he would have to resign now... the comparaison are pretty bad here