Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Confucius]

Yeah, why be informed when ignorance seems to be the chosen path.

You’re starting to get nasty, have a good day

 

[Gary Nylund]

You’re continuing to be nasty, have a good day

FYP.

 

[Maple Leaf]

You guys get worked up a lot about marner it has been 8 years old news nothing will change cya next year

 

[Gary Nylund]

You guys get worked up a lot about marner it has been 8 years old news nothing will change cya next year

The only time something could change is in the playoffs. Some people still seem to think that Marner's worth raving about early in the regular season though, it is what it is.

 

[ToneDog]

The only time something could change is in the playoffs. Some people still seem to think that Marner's worth raving about early in the regular season though, it is what it is.

Does this look like a $13m player?

How about this?

 

[Sypher04]

Assuming that’s McDavid he’s probably a 16-17 million dollar player, soooo

 

[ToneDog]

Assuming that’s McDavid he’s probably a 16-17 million dollar player, soooo

Nah, it is Drai who had an 8.5m cap hit for 8 years before hitting it out of the park and being rewarded for outperforming him last deal. Marner who did not perform to his last cap hit isn't close to this guy but will argue he deserves to be paid close to him. Mitch with 1 goal in his last 10 games and we wonder why Leafs depth is a non factor in the playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

Does this look like a $13m player?

View attachment 948686

How about this?

View attachment 948693

Is there a big difference here besides the fact William scores a ton more goals and some consider him overpaid at 11.5

 

[666]

Does this look like a $13m player?

View attachment 948686

How about this?

View attachment 948693

Typical hater nonsense using super small sample sizes. You guys need a lesson in logic.

 

[francis246]

Nah, it is Drai who had an 8.5m cap hit for 8 years before hitting it out of the park and being rewarded for outperforming him last deal. Marner who did not perform to his last cap hit isn't close to this guy but will argue he deserves to be paid close to him. Mitch with 1 goal in his last 10 games and we wonder why Leafs depth is a non factor in the playoffs.

When Draisaitl signed his extension he had a career high of 77 and hadn’t scored 30 goals. No body thought his 8.5 deal was a steal at the time he signed it. It wasn’t until 2 seasons later when he scored 105 that people started saying that deal was a steal. You can’t keep going back and comparing deals in hindsight cause valuations are all over the place when guys sign.

 

[francis246]

Nah, it is Drai who had an 8.5m cap hit for 8 years before hitting it out of the park and being rewarded for outperforming him last deal. Marner who did not perform to his last cap hit isn't close to this guy but will argue he deserves to be paid close to him. Mitch with 1 goal in his last 10 games and we wonder why Leafs depth is a non factor in the playoffs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/s/QtVsST6ZRE

Just read this thread of when the extension happened

 

[ToneDog]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/s/QtVsST6ZRE

Just read this thread of when the extension happened

Yup, I thought it was an overpay at the time but it was a gamble that paid off in spades. Same looks to be true for Jack Hughes. Leafs blew it with their RFAs and now they are paying for it a second time.

Even so. Draisaitl @ 14.25m (eek) or Marner at $13m? I'd plug my nose and take the big strong, goal scoring centre and playoff beast. Sorry Marner @ $13m is a joke IMO.

 

[666]

Is there a big difference here besides the fact William scores a ton more goals and some consider him overpaid at 11.5
View attachment 948746

Finally, a hater with a large sample size. Unfortunately you're completely ignoring Nylander's dismal defence. While using +/- is frowned upon when comparing two right wingers on the same team it's at least a reasonable context and in this case it should give you a hint as to how horrible Nylander is defensively. To even consider comparing Nylander to Marner during the regular season is absurd. Do you guys even watch the defensive zone?

 

[francis246]

Yup, I thought it was an overpay at the time but it was a gamble that paid off in spades. Same looks to be true for Jack Hughes. Leafs blew it with their RFAs and now they are paying for it a second time.

The leafs f***ed up by signing Matthews first. I honestly have no idea why we hyper focus so much on Marner and his contract. The initial Matthews extension set this organization on a brutal path with our RFA’s. They paid him far too much especially in a season where he didn’t our pace Marner. Doing that gave Marner the ammo to also ask for more than what he was probably worth at the time. Just bad negotiating all around.

 

[666]

Yup, I thought it was an overpay at the time but it was a gamble that paid off in spades. Same looks to be true for Jack Hughes. Leafs blew it with their RFAs and now they are paying for it a second time.

Even so. Draisaitl @ 14.25m (eek) or Marner at $13m? I'd plug my nose and take the big strong, goal scoring centre and playoff beast. Sorry Marner @ $13m is a joke IMO.

Drai is dependent on the power play and ice-time to get his points.

Last 3 full seasons to get the samples up but avoid the Covid years 5v5 points / 60 to allow for uneven playing time:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]TOI[/TD]
[TD]TOI/GP[/TD]
[TD]Total Points/60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]Nathan MacKinnon[/TD]
[TD]COL[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]218[/TD]
[TD]3610.2[/TD]
[TD]16.6[/TD]
[TD]3.22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]Auston Matthews[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]228[/TD]
[TD]3562.4[/TD]
[TD]15.6[/TD]
[TD]3.01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]Mitchell Marner[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]C, R[/TD]
[TD]221[/TD]
[TD]3205.1[/TD]
[TD]14.5[/TD]
[TD]2.98[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]Connor McDavid[/TD]
[TD]EDM[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]238[/TD]
[TD]3869.3[/TD]
[TD]16.3[/TD]
[TD]2.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]Matthew Tkachuk[/TD]
[TD]CGY, FLA[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]241[/TD]
[TD]3338.6[/TD]
[TD]13.9[/TD]
[TD]2.89[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]David Pastrnak[/TD]
[TD]BOS[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]236[/TD]
[TD]3383.1[/TD]
[TD]14.3[/TD]
[TD]2.87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]Nikita Kucherov[/TD]
[TD]T.B[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]210[/TD]
[TD]3239.3[/TD]
[TD]15.4[/TD]
[TD]2.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]Jason Robertson[/TD]
[TD]DAL[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]238[/TD]
[TD]3451.4[/TD]
[TD]14.5[/TD]
[TD]2.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]Nikolaj Ehlers[/TD]
[TD]WPG[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]189[/TD]
[TD]2534.7[/TD]
[TD]13.4[/TD]
[TD]2.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]Artemi Panarin[/TD]
[TD]NYR[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]239[/TD]
[TD]3620.0[/TD]
[TD]15.1[/TD]
[TD]2.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]Jesper Bratt[/TD]
[TD]N.J[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]240[/TD]
[TD]3268.6[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[TD]2.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]Jeff Skinner[/TD]
[TD]BUF[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]3109.1[/TD]
[TD]13.3[/TD]
[TD]2.61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]Filip Forsberg[/TD]
[TD]NSH[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]201[/TD]
[TD]2738.2[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[TD]2.59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]Vladimir Tarasenko[/TD]
[TD]FLA, NYR, OTT, STL[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]220[/TD]
[TD]2881.0[/TD]
[TD]13.1[/TD]
[TD]2.56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]Sidney Crosby[/TD]
[TD]PIT[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]3535.6[/TD]
[TD]15.2[/TD]
[TD]2.56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]Tage Thompson[/TD]
[TD]BUF[/TD]
[TD]C, R[/TD]
[TD]227[/TD]
[TD]3064.5[/TD]
[TD]13.5[/TD]
[TD]2.55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]Carter Verhaeghe[/TD]
[TD]FLA[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]235[/TD]
[TD]3259.0[/TD]
[TD]13.9[/TD]
[TD]2.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]Alex Tuch[/TD]
[TD]BUF[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]199[/TD]
[TD]2713.1[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[TD]2.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]Nico Hischier[/TD]
[TD]N.J[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]222[/TD]
[TD]2983.4[/TD]
[TD]13.4[/TD]
[TD]2.53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]Leon Draisaitl[/TD]
[TD]EDM[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]241[/TD]
[TD]3811.1[/TD]
[TD]15.8[/TD]
[TD]2.52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]Kirill Kaprizov[/TD]
[TD]MIN[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]223[/TD]
[TD]3393.0[/TD]
[TD]15.2[/TD]
[TD]2.51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]Brayden Point[/TD]
[TD]T.B[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]229[/TD]
[TD]3379.2[/TD]
[TD]14.8[/TD]
[TD]2.49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]Kevin Fiala[/TD]
[TD]L.A, MIN[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]3121.7[/TD]
[TD]13.4[/TD]
[TD]2.48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]Jack Hughes[/TD]
[TD]N.J[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]189[/TD]
[TD]2928.3[/TD]
[TD]15.5[/TD]
[TD]2.48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]Aleksander Barkov[/TD]
[TD]FLA[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]2724.7[/TD]
[TD]13.1[/TD]
[TD]2.47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]Jordan Kyrou[/TD]
[TD]STL[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]235[/TD]
[TD]3304.9[/TD]
[TD]14.1[/TD]
[TD]2.47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]Johnny Gaudreau[/TD]
[TD]CBJ, CGY[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]243[/TD]
[TD]3582.0[/TD]
[TD]14.7[/TD]
[TD]2.46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]Robert Thomas[/TD]
[TD]STL[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]227[/TD]
[TD]3217.8[/TD]
[TD]14.2[/TD]
[TD]2.41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]Nazem Kadri[/TD]
[TD]CGY, COL[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]235[/TD]
[TD]3205.7[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[TD]2.40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]Elias Pettersson[/TD]
[TD]VAN[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]242[/TD]
[TD]3279.6[/TD]
[TD]13.6[/TD]
[TD]2.40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

31​

[/TD]

[TD]Michael Bunting[/TD]
[TD]CAR, PIT, TOR[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]242[/TD]
[TD]3221.4[/TD]
[TD]13.3[/TD]
[TD]2.37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

32​

[/TD]

[TD]Steven Stamkos[/TD]
[TD]T.B[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]241[/TD]
[TD]3241.2[/TD]
[TD]13.4[/TD]
[TD]2.37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]Brock Nelson[/TD]
[TD]NYI[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]236[/TD]
[TD]3239.8[/TD]
[TD]13.7[/TD]
[TD]2.37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

34​

[/TD]

[TD]Mikko Rantanen[/TD]
[TD]COL[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]237[/TD]
[TD]3898.4[/TD]
[TD]16.4[/TD]
[TD]2.35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

35​

[/TD]

[TD]William Nylander[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]C, R[/TD]
[TD]245[/TD]
[TD]3415.8[/TD]
[TD]13.9[/TD]
[TD]2.35[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Confucius]

Finally, a hater with a large sample size. Unfortunately you're completely ignoring Nylander's dismal defence. While using +/- is frowned upon when comparing two right wingers on the same team it's at least a reasonable context and in this case it should give you a hint as to how horrible Nylander is defensively. To even consider comparing Nylander to Marner during the regular season is absurd. Do you guys even watch the defensive zone?

Im not a hater, jeeze. I just don’t believe in overpaying. Mitch playing all the pk apparently but has only 7 shp compared to William’s 4. William with 17 gwg’s compared to Marner’s 8. We can all point to different angles. I’d say the difference In defence is countered by the difference in goals

 

[666]

We can all point to different angles. I’d say the difference In defence is countered by the difference in goals

Then you don't understand Marners role or defense. Nylander is a defensive liability all of time. Marner is a defensive superstar all of the time. When Nylander plays with JT they let in more goals than they score. When Marner plays with JT they are as effective as the Matthews line.

You need to watch Nylander closer in the defensive zone. First of all he's alway late getting out of the offensive zone because he's always so tired or lazy getting back. Then, most of the time, he hangs out at the blue line looking for the flashy stretch pass breakaway. When he does rarely contribute he gives the puck away more often than not. You guys really need to pay more attention in the defensive zone.

 

[Confucius]

Then you don't understand Marners role or defense. Nylander is a defensive liability all of time. Marner is a defensive superstar all of the time. When Nylander plays with JT they let in more goals than they score. When Marner plays with JT they are as effective as the Matthews line.

You need to watch Nylander closer in the defensive zone. First of all he's alway late getting out of the offensive zone because he's always so tired or lazy getting back. Then, most of the time, he hangs out at the blue line looking for the flashy stretch pass breakaway. When he does rarely contribute he gives the puck away more often than not. You guys really need to pay more attention in the defensive zone.

Why are you a William hater?
See how that works?

 

[666]

Why are you a William hater?
See how that works?

Because he sucks defensively.

 

[Confucius]

Because he sucks defensively.

Well he isn’t a defensive star but if we need a goal (this year) it will come from William.

 

[666]

Well he isn’t a defensive star but if we need a goal (this year) it will come from William.

Does it really matter if he's on the ice for more goals against than goals for? Think about it.

 

[ACC1224]

Does it really matter if he's on the ice for more goals against than goals for? Think about it.

Math is hard

 

[Confucius]

Does it really matter if he's on the ice for more goals against than goals for? Think about it.

I don’t have the time to research how all the goals were scored over the last 2.5 years. When Mitch plays on the pk he can only get a plus never a minus. So that is a big advantage. Maybe it has to do with linemates, maybe with situational use.

 

[666]

I don’t have the time to research how all the goals were scored over the last 2.5 years. When Mitch plays on the pk he can only get a plus never a minus. So that is a big advantage. Maybe it has to do with linemates, maybe with situational use.

The stats have been posted many many times. Nylander is horrible defensively and PK has nothing to do with it. Of course linemates matter but the stats still say the same thing. But none of this should matter. You should clearly see it EVERY SINGLE GAME. Marner is constantly doing his defensive magic getting the puck out of the zone and Nylander is constantly getting back late and hanging out at the blue line. How have you not noticed this?

 

[Confucius]

The stats have been posted many many times. Nylander is horrible defensively and PK has nothing to do with it. Of course linemates matter but the stats still say the same thing. But none of this should matter. You should clearly see it EVERY SINGLE GAME. Marner is constantly doing his defensive magic getting the puck out of the zone and Nylander is constantly getting back late and hanging out at the blue line. How have you not noticed this?

Ofcourse pk time affects plus minus. You can never be assigned a minus while on pk but you can collect pluses. How many free pluses over 2.5 years did Mitch collect? Anyway man I value them both the same. If I’m defending I want Mitch, if I need a goal I want William