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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

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francis246 said:
Ironically I think this is probably Leafs managements frustration. The cap system has definitely f***ed them. Before you come at me for defending them, I’m just playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion.

Now that I’ve established that lol, I think the leafs would argue that they are punished in this system for simply having good players and wanting to retain them. If the cap was more flexible it wouldn’t be such an issue and a stagnant cap put a strangle hold on their plans.

From a fans perspective my thought is, At the end of the day it’s on the leafs to pivot and adjust if their plan wasn’t working.
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Other teams seem to have navigated the strangle hold cap.
It’s almost too late for the Leafs to pivot and adjust. If they lock Marner up we will just have to wait until they age out and hope the next tank and rebuild is done properly
 
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thusk said:
1- Did the salary change anything in the fact than Nylander is not the same player playoff vs regular season? That's just telling marner was a better player when it was time for contract extension and Nylander got a late evolution, that's it

ps expectation going with what player doing in regular season, nobody will expect more from Stone because he won 1 M over draisaitl

2-You're the guys always changing the subject... Are you really serious? Move from Marner playing better in a north/south system to regular vs playoff ( an area where almost every leafs player becoming worst)... So just said it was the case with everyone you changing woth by carreer % production and proclamaing it was not the case withNylanderl and just showing it was not the case since he became a ppg player so you're changing it again to value vs result... But go ahead, i'm the guy whos constantly changing the subject...
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Nylander basically is the same player at the very least marner is not
 
Racer88 said:
Other teams seem to have navigated the strangle hold cap.
It’s almost too late for the Leafs to pivot and adjust. If they lock Marner up we will just have to wait until they age out and hope the next tank and rebuild is done properly
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Personally I believe the core will get it done, so I’m not opposed to signing Marner. I think this core is more than capable. So I don’t few signing Marner as a death sentence. But I know some people do given the past years history which is more than fair.
 
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francis246 said:
Personally I believe the core will get it done, so I’m not opposed to signing Marner. I think this core is more than capable. So I don’t few signing Marner as a death sentence. But I know some people do given the past years history which is more than fair.
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What we need is to hit on our next couple moves It could be real integral to success cause we’re getting old and fast
 
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thusk said:
Yeah for sure Nylander had been so great vs florida...
-one puck bouncing of a skate behind the net the jump direct on his stick in the slot, missed his shot who hit the post, hit the back of bobovsky and came back in.
-a pretty bad angle shot from peripheric with goalie just being weak... and those 2 goal are basically everything nylander did...2 lucky goal...Yeah Nylander had been so pretty good vs florida. It's exactly what i said... double standard. He was not even better than the rest of the team.

Boston series is the only in the last 3 year than nylander had been better and honestly i dont think marner was 100% coming back of his high ankle injury but we will probably never know.

If Marner would not be pretty good first few game vs tampa, maybe both series would be over in 4 especially in 2023 in the only series leafs won...game 1 to 4 matter as much than gm 5-6-7. if you're losing 4 of them whatever wich one, you're out. I don't understand the obcession for gm 5 to 7 over gm 1 to 4...

and like i said earlier, im pretty sure a more direct system will really help him in that part of the game. The futur will tel
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If you want to pick at individual plays, there's someone else here who can do that with you all day.

The fact that you keep propping up Marner by comparing him to a player who's cap hit is 4 million less than Marner's isn't really helping your cause but again, there are other threads for our other players, so why don't we get back to Marner for a moment.

You didn't say if you're fine with Marner going from being about a 100 point player during the regular season to being about a 70 point player in the playoffs. It's a simple yes/no question.

And as I've explained before, it's not games 1-4 vs games 5-7, it's games 1-4 of the 1st round vs everything that comes after. Now granted, we've only been past the 1st round one time but that one time Marner remained ineffective so quite simply, the concern is that Marner's good the first few playoff games while players are adjusting to playoff hockey but after that he's ineffective. If that is the case, and he's a 40 point player from that point on that would be bad, wouldn't it?

BraveCanadian said:
All it takes is one huge playoff and/or win and the narrative will be completely different for our guys too.

One win overrides years and years of losing.
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If it's coming (and that's a big if), it better come soon. Players have a limited number of prime years and many of those have been wasted already.
DarkKnight said:
He’s a good guy.
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But is he a winner?
 
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Gary Nylund said:
If you want to pick at individual plays, there's someone else here who can do that with you all day.

The fact that you keep propping up Marner by comparing him to a player who's cap hit is 4 million less than Marner's isn't really helping your cause but again, there are other threads for our other players, so why don't we get back to Marner for a moment.

You didn't say if you're fine with Marner going from being about a 100 point player during the regular season to being about a 70 point player in the playoffs. It's a simple yes/no question.

And as I've explained before, it's not games 1-4 vs games 5-7, it's games 1-4 of the 1st round vs everything that comes after. Now granted, we've only been past the 1st round one time but that one time Marner remained ineffective so quite simply, the concern is that Marner's good the first few playoff games while players are adjusting to playoff hockey but after that he's ineffective. If that is the case, and he's a 40 point player from that point on that would be bad, wouldn't it?


If it's coming (and that's a big if), it better come soon. Players have a limited number of prime years and many of those have been wasted already.

But is he a winner?
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Who in this team is? weird how he gets labelled while others have the same success or failure rate

Also, it's ok to seperate the person from the player from time to time
 
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fahad203 said:
Who in this team is? weird how he gets labelled while others have the same success or failure rate

Also, it's ok to seperate the person from the player from time to time
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Why do people keep saying this? You are wrong, simple as that. Many people in our organization (not just players) deserve criticism, and they are getting criticism. It's weird how it's OK to criticize other players but whenever people criticize Marner, people do what you're doing now. He's not "getting labelled", he's just one of many getting some criticism, deal with it.

Seriously, go check out some other threads, educate yourself to the fact that others are being criticized, learn something, sheesh.
 
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francis246 said:
Personally I believe the core will get it done, so I’m not opposed to signing Marner. I think this core is more than capable. So I don’t few signing Marner as a death sentence. But I know some people do given the past years history which is more than fair.
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More then anything I hope you are right but they have shown nothing that indicates that in the last 7 years
 
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arso40 said:
What we need is to hit on our next couple moves It could be real integral to success cause we’re getting old and fast
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Yup, I think we need to hope a few more draft picks pan out. And if we can acquire a center who is willing to commit to us for the next 3 years that would help tremendously. But you’re right we have to identify the right guys.

I’m curious and I’d love to hear your take, as a fan what do we feel is acceptable for this group, in order to justify bringing them back? I’m sure the answer will vary greatly. I would still consider a conference final a disappointment cause I want them to win the cup hahaha. But I think some people would view it as a success.
 
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fahad203 said:
Who in this team is? weird how he gets labelled while others have the same success or failure rate

Also, it's ok to seperate the person from the player from time to time
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Literally never see it in other player's threads. Never seen Matthews, Nylander or Tavares' charity/community work get posted on there. It's only here, and it's weird.

Yeah millionaires tend to give some money away to improve public image, especially pro athletes. The Marner PR crew seems to way overcompensate in this area and never miss a chance to flaunt it.
 
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IPS said:
Literally never see it in other player's threads. Never seen Matthews, Nylander or Tavares' charity/community work get posted on there. It's only here, and it's weird.

Yeah millionaires tend to give some money away to improve public image, especially pro athletes. The Marner PR crew seems to way overcompensate in this area and never miss a chance to flaunt it.
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It’s only a counter to the boorish clown patrol that tries to paint him as selfish. It’s fun to parse out things to support bullshit narratives, but then there is the truth. Say he’s hated in the room, you’re getting the praise from his teammates, say he’s a me first selfish asshole, you’re getting his unparalleled selfless acts. Say he needs to do more in the playoffs, you get agreement. What’s really weird, how people get triggered if anyone mentions he helps the community. Says a lot, and not how you’re twisting it.

He’s a good human. Plus he loves dogs ;)
 
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DarkKnight said:
It’s only a counter to the boorish clown patrol that tries to paint him as selfish. It’s fun to parse out things to support bullshit narratives, but then there is the truth. Say he’s hated in the room, you’re getting the praise from his teammates, say he’s a me first selfish asshole, you’re getting his unparalleled selfless acts. What’s really weird, how people get triggered if anyojne mention he helps the community. Says a lot.

Hes a good guy. Plus he loves dogs ;)
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It's all so weird, and pretty sad.
 
ACC1224 said:
It's all so weird, and pretty sad.
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And if you like the player you’re part of some PR crew, instead of just a fan who appreciates the guy. He’s the smartest Leaf since a Gilmour, period. I love watching him read the game, it’s frankly amazing what he sees. Let the jaundiced wince every time he does something good, I don’t have that conflict, thankfully. He’s failed in the past, with others, we’re Leafs fans, tomorrow is a new day and things can change. Until they don’t, I’m enjoying the ride this season. Low brow mob mentality is what is.
 
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IPS said:
Literally never see it in other player's threads. Never seen Matthews, Nylander or Tavares' charity/community work get posted on there. It's only here, and it's weird.

Yeah millionaires tend to give some money away to improve public image, especially pro athletes. The Marner PR crew seems to way overcompensate in this area and never miss a chance to flaunt it.
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Marner gets defended because he’s the only player who unfairly gets blamed for 8 years of failure. That’s literally it. You can deny it all you want, but there’s like 3 threads of evidence.

We’ve had people in this thread and others openly admit they just say random stuff about him because they don’t like him as a player and they never will. That’s fine and it’s their decision. But we need to stop pretending like people are preventing you from criticizing Marner. That’s not happening.

In recent years no one has been more scruitinzed as a maple leaf than him. Nylander to some extent but I’d say Marner has jumped ahead of him. Matthews seemingly gets a pass every year and while he takes some heat he doesn’t get as much. There has been a definite hyper focus on identifying Marner as the issue in the last 4 years. Since Covid, meanwhile no one is asking why a guy who can score 69 in his sleep in the regular season can’t shoot the lights out in the playoffs?
 
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francis246 said:
Marner gets defended because he’s the only player who unfairly gets blamed for 8 years of failure. That’s literally it. You can deny it all you want, but there’s like 3 threads of evidence. In recent years no one has been more scruitinzed as a maple leaf than him. Nylander to some extent but I’d say Marner has jumped ahead of him. Matthews seemingly gets a pass every year and while he takes some heat he doesn’t get as much. There has been a definite hyper focus on identifying Marner as the issue in the last 4 years. Since Covid, meanwhile no one is asking why a guy who can score 69 in his sleep in the regular season can’t shoot the lights out in the playoffs?
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This.
 
IPS said:
Literally never see it in other player's threads. Never seen Matthews, Nylander or Tavares' charity/community work get posted on there. It's only here, and it's weird.

Yeah millionaires tend to give some money away to improve public image, especially pro athletes. The Marner PR crew seems to way overcompensate in this area and never miss a chance to flaunt it.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people are on to this now. It's pretty apparent. Lot of pumping his tires.
 
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