Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[thewave]

yes I would absolutely love to win a cup

Even if these guys took reasonable contracts. Right now they are matching only the highest comparables or exceeding that.

If they all took a mid to low range based on comparables we are looking at like 5m in savings or so. That 5m gets you a guy like Knies vs not having a guy like Knies.

In the playoffs that's a big deal.

 

[DarkKnight]

A tax expert showed Reinhart would pay 12mil more in taxes here over the length of his contract, same money. Just for context.

 

[francis246]

And 11.6M in cap space got the Rangers Panarin who is better than Marner.

Not trusting your management to make signings is a different discussion. But like I said earlier, we don't need Marner to lose in the first round. We can do it without him. We're a playoff team without Marner.

At least without him we have the possibility of being better than a 1st round exit team every year.

There isn’t a panarin available though! That’s the whole point of the argument. If one of those top guys was clearly available I think fans and management would seriously be on board. All these agent / teams collude. If there was ANY chance that the leafs had a shot at those guys they’d probably know by now through back channels. It ain’t happening.

 

[francis246]

For the big 4 the best thing they could have done for their image considering the lack of playoff success is..

Matthews taking like 12.5m x 4

Nylander saying he was underpaid last time around and taking 10.5m or even 10.9m to match Mitch.

JT should admit he was overpaid or hint at it in a subtle way. Wanting to complete the job and get a cup here and take a 5x5m

Mitch should just take a contract at 11.5m but that won't happen now. Matching Nylander so we can win would save his face big time though. If he matches as a % with Nylander would probably save his face a bit too.

Winning a cup erases all issues. Can we afford the depth to do it? I hope so, the 3 year Cup window is looking very real

I think JT is gonna take like a 4.75 deal. His will be team friendly. Under 5. I think he does the team a solid to stay. I think the Ryan O’Reilly deal is a perfect comparable.

 

[All Mod Cons]

It is imperative that we re-sign Marner and Tavares.

 

[thewave]

It is imperative that we re-sign Marner and Tavares.

Haha.

Marner not so much. That 13 14m could be become ROR JT and part of Knies.

Sorry for the next 3 years I would rather have ROR JT and Knies here. 100% more likely to get a cup with those players

Then you get another 6m to spend on another player with savings from the new JT contract. Suddenly things look up

 

[francis246]

Haha.

Marner not so much. That 13 14m could be become ROR JT and part of Knies.

Sorry for the next 3 years I would rather have ROR JT and Knies here. 100% more likely to get a cup with those players

Then you get another 6m to spend on another player with savings from the new JT contract. Suddenly things look up

You don’t wanna see JT - ROR - Marner reunited?!?

 

[thewave]

You don’t wanna see JT - ROR - Marner reunited?!?

I think in terms of what would it take to get an almost sure fire shot at the cup. I know we have Tanev and OEL looking good but for how long.

Does 14m Marner get it done in 3 years. Just not sure.

 

[thewave]

A tax expert showed Reinhart would pay 12mil more in taxes here over the length of his contract, same money. Just for context.

Now this is a topic almost all of us agree 100% on. The tax issue needs resolved in the next CBA. Either the govt needs to harmonize pro level athletes or something.

I don't mind if Athletes pay less personally. I feel they make good ambassadors and help promote Canada. Maybe they could make a elite level athlete tax bracket.

5m+ and it kicks in

Under 5m uses standard. There wouldn't be many special cases to deal with by the CRA

 

[leafs in five]

Haha.

Marner not so much. That 13 14m could be become ROR JT and part of Knies.

Sorry for the next 3 years I would rather have ROR JT and Knies here. 100% more likely to get a cup with those players

Then you get another 6m to spend on another player with savings from the new JT contract. Suddenly things look up

imo we should definitely choose the players that make us 100% more likely to win a cup

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think JT is gonna take like a 4.75 deal. His will be team friendly. Under 5. I think he does the team a solid to stay. I think the Ryan O’Reilly deal is a perfect comparable.

You wait on both of them till the playoffs are done. There's no point in handcuffing yourself with these contracts and no move clauses if this is another one and done in the playoffs. I am sorry. This team has been giving the players what they want, when is enough is enough? Show me something in the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

You wait on both of them till the playoffs are done. There's no point in handcuffing yourself with these contracts and no move clauses if this is another one and done in the playoffs. I am sorry. This team has been giving the players what they want, when is enough is enough? Show me something in the playoffs.

The Leafs are already prepared to make him a top paid player in the league but from all the smoke, I am guessing Marner wants close to $14m (LOL). Makes me think Kyper played dumb and knows more than he is willing to admit. Based on Marner's last 12 playoff games, I'd pass.

 

[Divine]

There isn’t a panarin available though! That’s the whole point of the argument. If one of those top guys was clearly available I think fans and management would seriously be on board. All these agent / teams collude. If there was ANY chance that the leafs had a shot at those guys they’d probably know by now through back channels. It ain’t happening.

How is there not? Until Rantanen is re-signed he's available.

 

[ACC1224]

There isn’t a panarin available though! That’s the whole point of the argument. If one of those top guys was clearly available I think fans and management would seriously be on board. All these agent / teams collude. If there was ANY chance that the leafs had a shot at those guys they’d probably know by now through back channels. It ain’t happening.

Why would the Rangers ever dream of letting Panarin go with all the success he's delivered there?

 

[leafs in five]

I would look forward to the reactions here if we swapped out one winger making 12-14m for another

 

[thewave]

I would look forward to the reactions here if we swapped out one winger making 12-14m for another

We have a secondary scoring issue and a scoring issue in the playoffs. When the best teams clamp down on our best players, there is nobody else to worry about as a scoring threat. That's why depth matters to winning teams. It's why cap matters. If you don't believe me look at how many series we have won in 8 years.

If we were MTL the fans would be tomato chucking this team last season. The pressure on Dubas and Keefe would have been enormous and tbh. I appreciate MTL fans for their ability to poopoo on their team when need be. Good for them.

Toronto fans will eat shit and ask for more.

 

[DarkKnight]

Bottomline, this fan base won't tolerate top top dollar again, his camp must accept this fact. If he truly wants to remain a Leaf, this concession is baked in, if his agent can't swallow that, it's over.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How is there not? Until Rantanen is re-signed he's available.

Rantanen is almost certainly going to re-sign, and even if he doesn't re-sign, it's extremely unlikely he'd want to come here, and even if he doesn't re-sign and does want to come here, we'd just end up paying even more money for a worse player.

 

[Smif]

Bottomline, this fan base won't tolerate top top dollar again, his camp must accept this fact. If he truly wants to remain a Leaf, this concession is baked in, if his agent can't swallow that, it's over.

I think we need to accept the income tax rates are severely affecting our inflated salaries. We can't compare our salary structure to 16 other low income tax teams imo. We're at a major disadvantage.

Since the salary cap was introduced in 05-06:

Highest 16 income tax rate teams - 3 cups.

Lowest 16 income tax rate teams - 19 cups.

The 3 cups came from beautiful California teams with a weather advantage. No high income rate team has won the cup since 2014.

 

[Evilhomer]

Bottomline, this fan base won't tolerate top top dollar again, his camp must accept this fact. If he truly wants to remain a Leaf, this concession is baked in, if his agent can't swallow that, it's over.

What exactly will the fan base do if he gets $14 million per season?

 

[DarkKnight]

I think we need to accept the income tax rates are severely affecting our inflated salaries. We can't compare our salary structure to 16 other low income tax teams imo. We're at a major disadvantage.

Since the salary cap was introduced in 05-06:

Highest 16 income tax rate teams - 3 cups.

Lowest 16 income tax rate teams - 19 cups.

The 3 cups came from beautiful California teams with a weather advantage. No high income rate team has won the cup since 2014.

I commented on that earlier as it relates to Reinhart. But, it simply isn't on for Marner to make more than Matthews, if his camp actually thinks that flies here, it's time to explore other options. It's death for him here too, it just doesn't work after the last deal. I don't think it comes to that, but this new cap growth talk has warped the landscape.

 

[Smif]

I commented on that earlier as it relates to Reinhart. But, it simply isn't on for Marner to make more than Matthews, if his camp actually thinks that flies here, it's time to explore other options. It's death for him here too, it just doesn't work after the last deal. I don't think it comes to that, but this new cap growth talk has warped the landscape.

I think their case will be that Matthews only signed for 4 years while Marner's camp will sign for 8, add to that the impending cap increase and I can see where Ferris is going with it.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think their case will be that Matthews only signed for 4 years while Marner's camp will sign for 8, add to that the impending cap increase and I can see where Ferris is going with it.

Sure, I get the logic, but they have to recognize perception.

 

[Smif]

Sure, I get the logic, but they have to recognize perception.

 

[DarkKnight]

What exactly will the fan base do if he gets $14 million per season?

Hate him to the end of time? Put so much pressure on him, he regrets being here? If we win a Cup this year, no problem lol, anything short of that and it just isn't tenable here. Read the room is my advice, take 12.75 on an eight year deal, the media will spin it as fair, given the cap. Make some endorsement deals and retire a Leaf, hold records and have your jersey retired.