Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Jojalu]

He’s fourth in the league scoring and has been our top forward D. You can argue we don’t need him, but it just isn’t serious to not acknowledge his contributions. I mean he’s fourth in the entire league and you act like he’s Holmberg. Again, don’t like the contract, fine, but no need to be forget he’s a star in this league.


No question, just look at every other sport without one, the big guys take even bigger pieces of a pie.

If you believe Leaf fans have it tough, try being a Cowboy fan.

60 mil per year for Dak to lose every playoff game.

 

[leafs in five]

"at least half"

 

[ToneDog]

To me, at least half of his points are empty calories. He is great on PK and a lot of defensive work, which a 2.5 mil player can do. My problem with him is that he is holds on to the puck way too much, he is trying to set up plays that are not there, he skates himself into corners, because he loses the real estate, they just box him out. He loses the puck so much because of boneheaded passes into god knows where. Yes, he does do some spectacular plays. But everything in between them is largely insignificant. I am much rather have another Knies than Marner.

It's like the Rudy Gay trade for Raptors. They traded him away thinking of a rebuild, but it actually made the team better

Imagine what you can add to last night's lineup with $13m. That's 10 Bobby McManns. Are we not more difficult to play against and deeper with 3 more Bobby McManns/Matthew Knies type players in last night's lineup in place of 75, 67 and 29?

 

[ToneDog]

Exactly this man! The Rudy Gay of the Toronto Maple Leafs. This is a solid gold truth nugget right there.

Yesterday the discussion was whether he is the Kawhi or Derozan of any trade, today he is the Rudy Gay.

 

[IPS]

Yesterday the discussion was whether he is the Kawhi or Derozan of any trade, today he is the Rudy Gay.

Well he's definitely not Kawhi, let's get that out of the way right away.

 

[leafs in five]

a team with 10 Bobby McManns is the stuff of nightmares

 

[DarkKnight]

If you believe Leaf fans have it tough, try being a Cowboy fan.

60 mil per year for Dak to lose every playoff game.

I'm an Eagles fans, I can't sympathize lol.

To me, at least half of his points are empty calories. He is great on PK and a lot of defensive work, which a 2.5 mil player can do. My problem with him is that he is holds on to the puck way too much, he is trying to set up plays that are not there, he skates himself into corners, because he loses the real estate, they just box him out. He loses the puck so much because of boneheaded passes into god knows where. Yes, he does do some spectacular plays. But everything in between them is largely insignificant. I am much rather have another Knies than Marner.

It's like the Rudy Gay trade for Raptors. They traded him away thinking of a rebuild, but it actually made the team better

They're not empty calories. The fact you dismiss one of, if not the best, playmaker in the league, I don't get it at all.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He did?

Those $200 cheques are nothing but bribing us with our own money.

 

[thewave]

I'm an Eagles fans, I can't sympathize lol.


They're not empty calories. The fact you dismiss one of, if not the best, playmaker in the league, I don't get it at all.

Mitch Marner in fancy fashion is trying to force the game through him to maximize points totals and contract. It doesn't matter how many times he does things that result in loss of possession etc. He does not care if he hangs out at the blue line or the perimeter. The guy is a gamer in the sense that he knows how to pad stats. The problem isn't Matthews having a bad year. Its also Marners quest for the big pay day is leading to less opportunity for Matthews, especially the miserable PP.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm an Eagles fans, I can't sympathize lol.


They're not empty calories. The fact you dismiss one of, if not the best, playmaker in the league, I don't get it at all.

There is no denying he is a highly skilled player, but for me the question becomes, can you win with your 3rd best player making $13+m? After 8 years of the same stale rerun, IMO no. If one of Marner or Willie was a top 1/2C or a Makar, maybe it has a better chance of working. Two soft wingers @ $25m is overkill.

Sometimes too much of a good thing is not a good thing.

 

[leafs in five]

deciding how many more Matthews Knieses I want to buy with Marner's money

 

[GoonieFace]

It’s pretty obvious they need Marner away from Matthews. Put Mitch with McMann and (insert trade target C). Keep Willy with Tavares, and that’s 3 solid lines. He just needs to stop with the curl around BS and hanging out at the blueline.

 

[leafs in five]

pretty obvious that this guy who is top 5 in the league in points needs to alter his game entirely

 

[Stringer Bell]

Disagree with me, as this is just my opinion...

It's not just that Marner and Matthews doesn't work, it's that Marner makes Matthews a worse player.

Matthews works harder away from Marner and plays a more engaged style.

 

[Smif]

So nice to not have a game full of globetrotter on ice hockey plays. If Matthews were out it would be proof of more wins without. Dare I do the same and start the counter?

Is that the core 3 can't coexist? Is it Matthews? Mitch? Willy Rocket?

Honestly, I think it's Matthews. At least it is this year anyways. Both Marner and Nylander have played their best hockey when they've been beside JT this year. I really wish we could see them all on separate lines for an extended period of time. Imagine this as your third line:

McMann - B. Nelson - Marner

 

[Gary Nylund]

pretty obvious that this guy who is top 5 in the league in points needs to alter his game entirely

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm, but it also seems like your hear is buried under the sand to you can ignore the real issue.

Considering his point production dries up by more than half after 86 games, it would be nice if he could alter his game to some degree, but I fear he's not capable of it. His game is what it is. It works well during the regular season but once teams settle into playoff style hockey, it no longer works, simple as that.

Now if you're happy with playoff failures as long as long as he puts up points during the regular season then by all means, be happy.

 

[The Podium]

Imagine what you can add to last night's lineup with $13m. That's 10 Bobby McManns. Are we not more difficult to play against and deeper with 3 more Bobby McManns/Matthew Knies type players in last night's lineup in place of 75, 67 and 29?

Where are you going to find 10 Bobby McManns? And if you find them they won’t be at his AAV.

Ditto with Knies

 

[leafs in five]

Now if you're happy with playoff failures as long as long as he puts up points during the regular season then by all means, be happy.

thanks, I am, and I will be

 

[Dekes For Days]

So is signing this guy for 14 million for 8 years.

That doesn't make us worse.

If they want all this money they need to at least give the teams some flexibility.

NMCs are pretty standard when you're worth that much money.

 

[ToneDog]

Where are you going to find 10 Bobby McManns? And if you find them they won’t be at his AAV.

Ditto with Knies

Your are right. Love to find 2 and an upgrade on D. We also need to find a C who can take over from Tavares going forward and that will not be cheap. Tre's got some difficult decisions to make going into the offseason.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The problem with Marner isn't his play but his attitude.

Fans can handle a winner with a bad attitude. And they'll tolerate a loser with a good attitude. What they won't put up with is a loser with a bad attitude.

That's Marner.

If he was just a little smarter he would realize nobody would care how many points he got. Nobody would care how much money he earned. Nobody would even care if he ever won the cup.

Nobody would care about these things if he wasn't such a snivelling snotty sucky baby.

The Quinn and Burns era teams are STILL adored by the greatest fan base in the world. Even though none of them ever won a cup or much by way of individual awards. But because they played for the crest on the front of the jersey instead of the name on the back.

The only thing Marner plays for is a bigger paycheque.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Where are you going to find 10 Bobby McManns? And if you find them they won’t be at his AAV.

Ditto with Knies

That's true. A more realistic choice might be something like this - here are two options for how to spend 16 million of cap:

Option 1 - 13M for Marner, 1M each for 3 other guys.

Option 2 - 16M spread out on 4 players who play playoff style hockey.

Considering Marner has consistently gone from a ~100 point guy to a ~40 point guy after 86 games and we've had no playoff success to speak of after 8 years of Marner, I have a strong preference at this point for NOT committing to Marner for another 8 years, and I think option 2 could work quite well for us.

The problem with Marner isn't his play but his attitude.

Fans can handle a winner with a bad attitude. And they'll tolerate a loser with a good attitude. What they won't put up with is a loser with a bad attitude.

That's Marner.

If he was just a little smarter he would realize nobody would care how many points he got. Nobody would care how much money he earned. Nobody would even care if he ever won the cup.

Nobody would care about these things if he wasn't such a snivelling snotty sucky baby.

The Quinn and Burns era teams are STILL adored by the greatest fan base in the world. Even though none of them ever won a cup or much by way of individual awards. But because they played for the crest on the front of the jersey instead of the name on the back.

The only thing Marner plays for is a bigger paycheque.

The Quinn and Burns era teams are popular with Leaf fans mostly because they are the only Leafs teams of the last 50 years to win more than one round in the playoffs. Boy oh boy have the last 50 years ever sucked.

 

[The Podium]

That's true. A more realistic choice might be something like this - here are two options for how to spend 16 million of cap:

Option 1 - 13M for Marner, 1M each for 3 other guys.

Option 2 - 16M spread out on 4 players who play playoff style hockey.

Considering Marner has consistently gone from a ~100 point guy to a ~40 point guy after 86 games and we've had no playoff success to speak of after 8 years of Marner, I have a strong preference at this point for NOT committing to Marner for another 8 years, and I think option 2 could work quite well for us.

4 x 4mill guys? 4mill barely buys you 3rd liners and bottom pairing D men theses days. More likely you’re looking at 2 x 7-8mill guys who are generally flawed 1st liners or good 2nd liners.

 

[Gary Nylund]

thanks, I am, and I will be

If you're happy with playoff failures as long as Mitch keeps putting up points, then that's great. Perhaps you can at least try understand those of us who care more about team playoff success than individual regular season stats and stop mocking those people who aren't happy with Marner's play in the playoffs.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The Quinn and Burns era teams are popular with Leaf fans mostly because they are the only Leafs teams of the last 50 years to win more than one round in the playoffs. Boy oh boy have the last 50 years ever sucked.

I liked them because they kicked ass.