Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Antropovsky]

Dregar reporting that Marners camp still refuses to negotiate in season and is waiting to offseason. Interesting because recentl Tree was asked about negotiations on Knies, Tavares and Marner, he didn't say this. I'm a little shocked that Marner would take this route if he wants to be here next year. Seems risky. Dregar obviously still a mouth piece for the Marner camp. Trying to play off the Rantanen trade like it doesn't effect Marner and that Tree would work very quickly to sign Marner immrdiately if Marners camp was open to negotiating.

 

[Confucius]

They are in the business of making money and do not want to upset the apple cart. Yes, you can make even more money if you win the Stanley Cup but that would require competency and hard work and that is something this organization has lacked since Conn Smythe. They were ready to rehire Dubas who was a disaster and is further proving it in Pittsburgh. Add that they have no clue how to draft and develop talent and here we are. Our prospect pool is 28th in the league, and Dubas mortgaged the future with most of our picks to beat a Tampa team that could not get a save.

This team is betting on 3 first round picks that a blind man could have picked. Hell he probably would have taken Ranta because he did not have connections to the London Knights.

We do it every year other than the tank year for AM. We’ll do it again this year, never learn. Lol

 

[leafs in five]

Dregär

 

[Racer88]

And no sarcasm tag by you!

That's a weird thing to say about Gretzky.

Not weird at all. He is a big buddy of Trumps…….far right

 

[thewave]

Gretzky is a far right lunatic. I wouldn’t listen to a word he say

Wayne is right about the Leafs. It was a Great Dig.

He isn't far right at all. He is just a centrist that values the core USA ammendments. That's not far right it's probably traditional Democrat in US terms.

Because people don't know this. Trump was a Democrat that went Republican when the whole culture pivoted left.

Anyways. Just wanted to defend Gretzky. No political talk from here on out

 

[CelticDruid]

The bottom line is fans are sick and tired of this team paying the core four outrageous term and money.

Marner cannot deliver in the playoffs and has to be the sacrificial lamb in order for this team to move forward.

I would like Tavares and Marner unsigned until other options are available in the off season.

 

[leafs in five]

Colorado, who has won a cup in recent years, has realized you can’t build a competitive TEAM with so much money tied in a couple players.

Why is it so hard for this organization to realize that? It’s been 8 years of failure with this core four and a constant rotating door in the bottom six due to them sucking every penny they can. Then we wonder why we don’t have depth as we scrape the bottom of the barrel hoping someone can contribute.

If we have another disappointing playoff series, I don’t know how you can bring Marner and even JT back.

We should have traded Marner before his NTC kicked in.

Ok nevermind that we don't spend pennies on things like 4th line C or 5/6th dmen. If Colorado never gets back to the final does it prove the opposite? That depth is less important than keeping a hold of your superstars?

 

[34]

Nylander is probably my favorite Leaf but these guys are all overpaid. There’s no reason Nylander should be making $11.5 mill AAV, I don’t even know who the Leafs were competing with. Who was paying him $13+ mill over 7 years in free agency?

Matthews’ contract is a joke. There’s not much else to say.

They should have let these guys go to free agency. The money they are demanding is not out there. Teams aren’t going to sign these guys to stupid contracts and break their internal cap structure.

Marner should not be re-signed during the season. Let him go to free agency.

I actually agree. Let Marner go to free agency and watch the $9M AAV offers roll in. His dad can take a f***ing hike trying to hold the MLSE at gunpoint.

 

[thewave]

I actually agree. Let Marner go to free agency and watch the $9M AAV offers roll in. His dad can take a f***ing hike trying to hold the MLSE at gunpoint.

Marner is going to take a bath in free agency. The USA does not know or care about him in the media. The sponsorships will be gone and the kid is making bank on that here.

Dare him to take a hike. He will fold like a cheap suit.

 

[Gabriel426]

Of all the teams that have capspace and willing to use them on a UFA like MM or Rantanen.
Hawks and Utah come to mind. As I think both teams won't mind paying 13mil each to get one or both of them.

 

[Aashir]

I think the plan was to trade Mitch, maybe at least in Dubas' eyes. I think Shanny is the guy committed to the core and that's probably why Dubas became a judas. Probably wanted to trade Mitch, Shanny wasn't going to let that happen.

Jonas Seigel wrote an article after the Florida series saying that Mitch Marner was under the assumption that maybe be his last series as Maple Leaf. I think even he believed he was out the door heading into July 1st that year.

To be fair though, it’s not like dubas didn’t vouch extra hard for the core.

From the group of people who don’t like the core 4, or even are more neutral (I believe you are too), I think unanimously everyone agrees Montreal should’ve been the end of this core 4. Dubas had that offseason and the next off season to deal anyone, but specifically a 3-4 year term Marner. It’s not like the second we realized it wasn’t working dubas was fired, he was given ample time IMO to come to the same conclusion as everyone and it still took him 2 extra playoff exits.

I don’t think Shanahan was going to fire dubas that early in, as it would look awful on him and the organization so I think blame also falls on dubas for how awfully long it took for him to realize his mistakes.

 

[Zero1]

Of all the teams that have capspace and willing to use them on a UFA like MM or Rantanen.
Hawks and Utah come to mind. As I think both teams won't mind paying 13mil each to get one or both of them.

I don’t see it.

If Marner makes $13 mill AAV as a 90-100 point winger, what do you think Bedard or Cooley will ask for? This is the same mistake the Leafs made.

They need to lock their guys up first before they start paying big money to free agents.

 

[34]

Marner is going to take a bath in free agency. The USA does not know or care about him in the media. The sponsorships will be gone and the kid is making bank on that here.

Dare him to take a hike. He will fold like a cheap suit.

Oh for sure. He is trying to hold the MLSE at gunpoint right now. I really hope he goes to free agency and gets offers of eight and $9 million a season. Paul can f*** right off.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ok nevermind that we don't spend pennies on things like 4th line C or 5/6th dmen. If Colorado never gets back to the final does it prove the opposite? That depth is less important than keeping a hold of your superstars?

I wish Colorado all the best but at the same time, I don't really care much how they do so here are a few questions that seem more relevant for Leaf fans:

1)
Why would we set the bar for Colorado at getting to the final, when we haven't even been able to get to the 3rd round, and have lost 7 times out of 8 in the 1st round?

2)
If the Leafs extend Marner and never get to the final, does that prove that keeping all our "superstars" is a bad idea?

3)
Would some number of years of abject embarrassing playoff failure be enough, so that we can admit that this was a bad idea and try something else? Or should we just keep these "superstars" forever no matter what?

4)
If the answer to question 3 is yes, there is some number then what's the number? I ask because I feel like we're past that number already, we've seen enough to know that what we're doing simply does not work and every year we keep going down this path is just one more wasted year.

I don't like wasting years, I feel like we've wasted more then enough already.

 

[GoonieFace]

I wish Colorado all the best but at the same time, I don't really care much how they do so here are a few questions that seem more relevant for Leaf fans:

1)
Why would we set the bar for Colorado at getting to the final, when we haven't even been able to get to the 3rd round, and have lost 7 times out of 8 in the 1st round?

2)
If the Leafs extend Marner and never get to the final, does that prove that keeping all our "superstars" is a bad idea?

3)
Would some number of years of abject embarrassing playoff failure be enough, so that we can admit that this was a bad idea and try something else? Or should we just keep these "superstars" forever no matter what?

4)
If the answer to question 3 is yes, there is some number then what's the number? I ask because I feel like we're past that number already, we've seen enough to know that what we're doing simply does not work and every year we keep going down this path is just one more wasted year.

I don't like wasting years, I feel like we've wasted more then enough already.

They’ve already buried themselves, so they will double down now. If for some reason it works out one of these years, they will say they knew it all along and look like geniuses. If it doesn’t, they won’t be around to care anyway

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is going to take a bath in free agency. The USA does not know or care about him in the media. The sponsorships will be gone and the kid is making bank on that here.

Dare him to take a hike. He will fold like a cheap suit.

Bravo!

If his choice is taking say 11.9 to play in Toronto, or take say 13.5 in Utah but lose millions in endorsements, I do believe folding like a cheap suit is exactly what he'll do.

It's hard to believe that this once proud organization would stand for being bullied by this kid who turns into a cupcake after 86 games. Embarrassing. I wish I wasn't addicted to following this and I could just pick another team to cheer for. Did I say embarrassing? Oh yeah, I did. So I'll say it again, embarrassing.

 

[34]

Bravo!

If his choice is taking say 11.9 to play in Toronto, or take say 13.5 in Utah but lose millions in endorsements, I do believe folding like a cheap suit is exactly what he'll do.

It's hard to believe that this once proud organization would stand for being bullied by this kid who turns into a cupcake after 86 games. Embarrassing. I wish I wasn't addicted to following this and I could just pick another team to cheer for. Did I say embarrassing? Oh yeah, I did. So I'll say it again, embarrassing.

He is not worth 11.9. He won’t get $10M on the open market.

 

[francis246]

They’ve already buried themselves, so they will double down now. If for some reason it works out one of these years, they will say they knew it all along and look like geniuses. If it doesn’t, they won’t be around to care anyway

This is why I have my stance. Honestly I’d love to get to the point maybe you and a few others are out. But they dug their heels in with this core. This is who they believe in and who are we kidding to think they are going to change it. We also are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to stop watching.

I care, I’m on hf boards spinning circles everyday, but I don’t care to the point that if they signed Marner it would make me stop watching. So whatever they decide I want to see them have success. It’s not that I’m a fake fan or a Marner supporter, but me being outraged does nothing IMO. They aren’t going to suddenly not want Marner anymore cause of that. So I’m just being realistic and accepting the situation for what it is and I just hope this core can eventually get it done cause they ain’t going no where for at least another 3 years. When they didn’t at least fire Keefe after Montreal I accepted ain’t nothing changing.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t see it.

If Marner makes $13 mill AAV as a 90-100 point winger, what do you think Bedard or Cooley will ask for? This is the same mistake the Leafs made.

They need to lock their guys up first before they start paying big money to free agents.

Had those two break out yet? Last I checked, think both of them can sign extension on July 1. Same date Rantanen and MM can sign their deals

 

[leafs in five]

I wish Colorado all the best but at the same time, I don't really care much how they do so here are a few questions that seem more relevant for Leaf fans:

1)
Why would we set the bar for Colorado at getting to the final, when we haven't even been able to get to the 3rd round, and have lost 7 times out of 8 in the 1st round?

2)
If the Leafs extend Marner and never get to the final, does that prove that keeping all our "superstars" is a bad idea?

3)
Would some number of years of abject embarrassing playoff failure be enough, so that we can admit that this was a bad idea and try something else? Or should we just keep these "superstars" forever no matter what?

4)
If the answer to question 3 is yes, there is some number then what's the number? I ask because I feel like we're past that number already, we've seen enough to know that what we're doing simply does not work and every year we keep going down this path is just one more wasted year.

I don't like wasting years, I feel like we've wasted more then enough already.

So in response to 1. I say, because the Avs' remaining stars are better/cup winners who care more about winning than the greedy pampered soft losers that we have? And the team (Colorado) has done what critics of our structure/personnel have been asking for, and shipped out a big salary for more depth and flexibility and a commitment to common wealth over individual? Therefore I would expect them to better the abject, embarrassing results of this Leafs core, if we are going to treat this kind of ruthless change as the obvious correct course or action that we should have taken years ago. But yeah the benchmark is arbitrary, and say conference finals then instead.

And fair enough of all the rest, no need to argue over those points again except I will say that I have never been embarrassed about or on behalf of any sports team I watch/follow/love. though maybe I have felt guilty a few times, like after Domi brained Scott Neidermeyer or Kypper took out Fuhr.

 

[studebaker17]

So in response to 1. I say, because the Avs' remaining stars are better/cup winners who care more about winning than the greedy pampered soft losers that we have? And the team (Colorado) has done what critics of our structure/personnel have been asking for, and shipped out a big salary for more depth and flexibility and a commitment to common wealth over individual? Therefore I would expect them to better the abject, embarrassing results of this Leafs core, if we are going to treat this kind of ruthless change as the obvious correct course or action that we should have taken years ago. But yeah the benchmark is arbitrary, and say conference finals then instead.

And fair enough of all the rest, no need to argue over those points again except I will say that I have never been embarrassed about or on behalf of any sports team I watch/follow/love. though maybe I have felt guilty a few times, like after Domi brained Scott Neidermeyer or Kypper took out Fuhr.

The only thing proven Colorado has done is they know they can win the cup with Rantanen playing for them . Trading him is an experiment to fill depth is just an experiment at this point that may very well regress them now and the future . I get you don't want the inmates running the asylum but it may also negate your chances of actually winning not finding common ground .

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I actually agree. Let Marner go to free agency and watch the $9M AAV offers roll in. His dad can take a f***ing hike trying to hold the MLSE at gunpoint.

I think you guys underestimate how desperate for stars some teams are. If Mitchy were to hit free agency, in his prime, he would create a frenzy and some jackass Owner/GM would go all in and make a huge mistake. Tale as old as time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So in response to 1. I say, because the Avs' remaining stars are better/cup winners who care more about winning than the greedy pampered soft losers that we have? And the team (Colorado) has done what critics of our structure/personnel have been asking for, and shipped out a big salary for more depth and flexibility and a commitment to common wealth over individual? Therefore I would expect them to better the abject, embarrassing results of this Leafs core, if we are going to treat this kind of ruthless change as the obvious correct course or action that we should have taken years ago. But yeah the benchmark is arbitrary, and say conference finals then instead.

And fair enough of all the rest, no need to argue over those points again except I will say that I have never been embarrassed about or on behalf of any sports team I watch/follow/love. though maybe I have felt guilty a few times, like after Domi brained Scott Neidermeyer or Kypper took out Fuhr.

I didn't know you viewed our guys as greedy pampered soft losers but Ok, good to know.

I would agree that the benchmark is arbitrary, but so is the idea that one's team success or failure proves that any approach is right or wrong. Every team is different, every situation is different, and sometimes you can make the smartest move and still not have success etc.

To put it another way, I don't need any examples from Colorado or any other team to tell me that extending Marner for big money before the playoffs seems like a really bad idea.

 

[ToneDog]

I didn't know you viewed our guys as greedy pampered soft losers but Ok, good to know.

I would agree that the benchmark is arbitrary, but so is the idea that one's team success or failure proves that any approach is right or wrong. Every team is different, every situation is different, and sometimes you can make the smartest move and still not have success etc.

To put it another way, I don't need any examples from Colorado or any other team to tell me that extending Marner for big money before the playoffs seems like a really bad idea.

No brainer unless he gives the Leafs a significant discount.

 

[leafs in five]

I didn't know you viewed our guys as greedy pampered soft losers but Ok, good to know.

I would agree that the benchmark is arbitrary, but so is the idea that one's team success or failure proves that any approach is right or wrong. Every team is different, every situation is different, and sometimes you can make the smartest move and still not have success etc.

To put it another way, I don't need any examples from Colorado or any other team to tell me that extending Marner for big money before the playoffs seems like a really bad idea.

yeah but my initial reply was to a post that said, why can't our front office see the obvious, as Colorado's has. I think that position will be tested by that team's results over the next couple years.