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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

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IPS said:
Literally the precise same negotiation tactic Marner used in 2019 claiming this with Matthews, which led to him getting paid significantly more than Rantanen.

Hey if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, eh??


I mean just last week the Marner PR crew was throwing around $13M an assuring us that it it absolutely OK for him to get this because "salary cap rising bro".

Did Rantanen try telling Sakic this? How come Sakic doesn't subscribe to the Marner PR crew logic?
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They should ask him. Do you want to try and make that elsewhere? If so waive and we can Rantanen your ass. Once that 8th year is gone the 13m aint 13m anymore in a sense. Nobody is going to make it 14.5m for the lost year either in July

Other teams have balls while our managers are constantly checking in with accounting to verify how much MM etc are bringing in
 
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For funzies, Rantanens current market value: 11.0

IPS said:
And Tanev's play being worthy of $7M! I'm sure Dekes is gonna be upset about that one.
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Tanev has been an amazing get. Just need his body to hold up and him not to get old overnight.
 
IPS said:
Of course you wouldn't get it.

When you start letting players put $$$ over the team your culture goes to shit. Hence the Leafs winning 1 series in 8 years. Sakic ain't having none of this shit with the Avs.

Turns out elite GM's like Sakic do know more than the fans.
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Yes let’s watch Colorado go out in the first round for the next 8 years
They are 100 per cent worse off with argueably their best player gone. He is right there with Mack.
Carolina fleeced Colorado.
 
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Zybalto said:
Current market value for Leafs players in the NHL excluding goalies (via the Athletic):

Matthews: 12.2
Marner: 12.0
Tavares: 10.4
Nylander: 9.2
Tanev: 7.1
McCabe: 6.7
OEL: 5.7
Knies: 5.6
Rielly: 5.0
McMann: 4.9
Domi: 2.9
Timmins: 2.7
Robertson: 2.2
Lorentz: 1.9
Patches: 1.8
Kampf: 1.1
Holmberg: 0.9
Dewar: 0.8
Reaves: 0.8
Benoit: 0.8
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Most of this list is ok I guees. MM should under the new cap be more like 11m and WN maybe 10m. The guy is in a rocket hunt ffs lol

I wouldnt pay him. I like goal scorers to be my highest paid players.
 
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notdoneyet said:
Yes let’s watch Colorado go out in the first round for the next 8 years
They are 100 per cent worse off with argueably their best player gone. He is right there with Mack.
Carolina fleeced Colorado.
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For Carolina, it depends on how well Rantanen gels with the new team. Power forward Meier had a bit of a troubled transition to the Devils. The solid system in Carolina does seem like a great landing spot though.
 
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notdoneyet said:
Yes let’s watch Colorado go out in the first round for the next 8 years
They are 100 per cent worse off with argueably their best player gone. He is right there with Mack.
Carolina fleeced Colorado.
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Yup Sakic should have let him walk for free when he could have gotten a cost controlled Necas for him.
 
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ToneDog said:
This move has Sakic's fingers all over it. To me it is clear he makes the big decisions in Denver. He does not hide behind his GM.
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Chris McFarland isn’t some chump lol. He was a huge part of the Avs winning the cup. I was reading up and it seems like McFarland and Sakic are really aligned and work together on a lot of things. Seems to be a lot of good trust. They’ve been a tandem since 2015 when McFarland was hired as Sakic’s AGM.
 
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francis246 said:
Chris McFarland isn’t some chump lol. He was a huge part of the Avs winning the cup. I was reading up and it seems like McFarland and Sakic are really aligned and work together on a lot of things. Seems to be a lot of good trust. They’ve been a tandem since 2015 when McFarland was hired as Sakic’s AGM.
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All I am saying is that a move like this has to have Sakic's stamp of approval. The same for any decision not to to pay him more than MacKinnon even though with the cap rising, he should be paid more.

The same is true here where Shanny has the final say IMO.
 
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francis246 said:
Chris McFarland isn’t some chump lol. He was a huge part of the Avs winning the cup. I was reading up and it seems like McFarland and Sakic are really aligned and work together on a lot of things. Seems to be a lot of good trust. They’ve been a tandem since 2015 when McFarland was hired as Sakic’s AGM.
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Its a good deal .carolina did well necas is a good player
Marner can be traded as well if he doesnt come in under the team internal cap
The leafs can trade marner the bar is set
 
thewave said:
Most of this list is ok I guees. MM should under the new cap be more like 11m and WN maybe 10m. The guy is in a rocket hunt ffs lol

I wouldnt pay him. I like goal scorers to be my highest paid players.
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Nylanders poor defensive numbers and facing lesser comp is what brings him down. He's one of the best scoring wingers in the league and being used well. I dont think he could thrive with the comp guys like MM and AM face. It's just not his game. He needs to be a Kessel for us in the playoffs and has largely played that role.

Tavares is a different player than when he arrived. He quickly became one of the top faceoff guys in hockey with us and has now changed his game to a far more responsible defensive style. He's going to take a big haircut to stay with the team as he already has been paid and wants to stay. How much he gets depends on how well he does for us in the playoffs. If he gets any more than 7, it means he (and we) have had a great playoffs IMO.
 
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Zybalto said:
Nylanders poor defensive numbers and facing lesser comp is what brings him down. He's one of the best scoring wingers in the league and being used well. I dont think he could thrive with the comp guys like MM and AM face. It's just not his game. He needs to be a Kessel for us in the playoffs and has largely played that role.

Tavares is a different player than when he arrived. He quickly became one of the top faceoff guys in hockey with us and has now changed his game to a far more responsible defensive style. He's going to take a big haircut to stay with the team as he already has been paid and wants to stay. How much he gets depends on how well he does for us in the playoffs. If he gets any more than 7, it means he (and we) have had a great playoffs IMO.
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This comp stuff is nonsense. The quality of linemates is far more important. How would Mitch fair playing with Holmberg and McMann, or whatever leftovers Nylander gets saddled with.
 
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Zybalto said:
Tanev has been an amazing get. Just need his body to hold up and him not to get old overnight.
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I was using Tanev as an example why this list is basically bunk. Our guy who plays the 4th most minutes at ES and overall isn't a 7 million guy. Much like Rantanen being less than Marner when they're having very similar seasons.
 
I know this is a unique thread about MM but respect to Avs and Carolina for going for it. That's the American spirit we seem to lack in Canadian sports (save for the Raptors one year which lead to a ring). We do still win Cups in Canada of course, it's just that it's been 33 years or so...
 
Zybalto said:
Nylanders poor defensive numbers and facing lesser comp is what brings him down. He's one of the best scoring wingers in the league and being used well. I dont think he could thrive with the comp guys like MM and AM face. It's just not his game. He needs to be a Kessel for us in the playoffs and has largely played that role.

Tavares is a different player than when he arrived. He quickly became one of the top faceoff guys in hockey with us and has now changed his game to a far more responsible defensive style. He's going to take a big haircut to stay with the team as he already has been paid and wants to stay. How much he gets depends on how well he does for us in the playoffs. If he gets any more than 7, it means he (and we) have had a great playoffs IMO.
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There’s no justification for Tavares having more market value than Nylander. If they were both UFAs right now it would not be close as to the offers received. Any attempts to rationalize it are laughable.
 
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IPS said:
I was using Tanev as an example why this list is basically bunk. Our guy who plays the 4th most minutes at ES and overall isn't a 7 million guy. Much like Rantanen being less than Marner when they're having very similar seasons.
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Tanev is a 20 minute a night top 4 D who is one of the best defensive dmen in the league. Not only is he worth his salary, he's especially worth it to us when we have had a huge hole there since Muzz went down. I guess it just matters of how much emphasis you put on D.

Rantanen and Marner as so completely different as wingers, its hard to compare. Scoring power forward puck protector vs. 2 way all situations playmaker. Again, D comes into play here.

TheDoldrums said:
There’s no justification for Tavares having more market value than Nylander. If they were both UFAs right now it would not be close as to the offers received. Any attempts to rationalize it are laughable.
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Its how they are playing this year, not how much they should get.
 
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Leafsfan74 said:
I know this is a unique thread about MM but respect to Avs and Carolina for going for it. That's the American spirit we seem to lack in Canadian sports (save for the Raptors one year which lead to a ring). We do still win Cups in Canada of course, it's just that it's been 33 years or so...
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Has nothing to do with candian vs American.

The difference is having a singular owner who can make unilateral decisions. It’s probably easier to convince one person to make a drastic move, compared to convincing a board with differing interests.

Kronke has never been afraid to make bold moves and same with Carolina owner despite him being cheap.

We’ll see what really happens once Ted Rogers buys out Larry.

TheDoldrums said:
There’s no justification for Tavares having more market value than Nylander. If they were both UFAs right now it would not be close as to the offers received. Any attempts to rationalize it are laughable.
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It’s a model that takes into account, offensive, defensive play and a bunch of other things from this year to determine their market value. Nothing more than a modelled projection. Doesn’t really mean anything.
 
1) Colorado knew they couldn't afford him so they had unload him.

2) He is not signed. So they had to find a partner who would trade for him without a contract past this year. That's a huge gamble for the team receiving Rantenen.

3) The team trading for him had to make sure they can can resign him and fit him under their cap.

Carolina fit that bill. Not an easy trade to pull off.

Could backfire massively for Carolina. See Guentzel.
 
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