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Miscellaneous NHL Talk V10.0 - 2018/19 Regular Season

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Striiker

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Rebels57 said:
Thats exactly the reputation Weise had after raising hell against Boston while with Montreal. Thats exactly why Hextall signed him.
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Doubt it.

Much more likely he wanted another Raffl-like player for the third line after a year where the bottom six consisted of guys like White, Vandevelde, Bellemare, Umberger, Cousins, and cameos by McDonald, Weal, and Leier.
 
Beef Invictus

Beef Invictus

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Striiker said:
VDV wasn't a problem until his coach decided he was a shutdown player.

Umberger was a Lehtera-type cap dump to get rid of Hartnell.

Not really comparable.
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Hextall kept VDV. He was always a problem because he was never NHL caliber.

You don't make cap dumps fixtures on the roster. He saw the guy as an actual player. He belonged in the AHL and Hextall didn't out him where he belonged. His presence harmed the team with Hextall's blessing. He whiffed.

His record with getting NHL talent is garbage and there's no way around that simple fact.
 
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klutch

klutch

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Dec 5, 2014
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Beef Invictus said:
Hextall kept VDV. He was always a problem because he was never NHL caliber.

You don't make cap dumps fixtures on the roster. He saw the guy as an actual player. He belonged in the AHL and Hextall didn't out him where he belonged. His presence harmed the team with Hextall's blessing. He whiffed.

His record with getting NHL talent is garbage and there's no way around that simple fact.
Click to expand...

Mind boggling the guy drafted a quality pool of youth but couldn’t see what was quality at that time in the league.
 
tictactoe

tictactoe

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Jan 15, 2017
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EklunD again says that we are buyers and now he says that Bob McKenzie also saying that we are buyers....
 

tucson83

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
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tictactoe said:
EklunD again says that we are buyers and now he says that Bob McKenzie also saying that we are buyers....
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
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baudib1

baudib1

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Apr 12, 2016
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The thing where Hextall and Hakstol were both really into specific roles was really annoying. VdV was far from the only guy they put on the team to be a PK specialist. Remember Boyd Gordon? At least they figured out how bad he was pretty quickly.

The two of them had this formula where vets > young players, heavy players > fast players, PK ability > 5v5 ability.
 
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Ghosts Beer

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Holy shit! Fenton traded Niederreiter straight up for Viktor Rask??????????

I thought word around the campfire was that Fenton was asking for way too much for his players.... Apparently not.

Good deal for Carolina. Lousy return for Minnesota.
 
Striiker

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,963
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Pennsylvania
Beef Invictus said:
Hextall kept VDV. He was always a problem because he was never NHL caliber.

You don't make cap dumps fixtures on the roster. He saw the guy as an actual player. He belonged in the AHL and Hextall didn't out him where he belonged. His presence harmed the team with Hextall's blessing. He whiffed.

His record with getting NHL talent is garbage and there's no way around that simple fact.
Click to expand...

It's not a fact, it's a sample picked out of a larger group. Overall it was a mixed bag.

Here's a group that of positive additions.
Gudas, Bellemare, Gagner, Del Zotto, White, Neuvirth, Elliott, Folin, and JVR. (I refuse to put Weal on this list, although others probably would have)

And Vandevelde was signed by Holmgren and then brought up by Hextall in 2014-2015, where he was actually semi-decent in the second half. He scored 9 goals that year, and while that was known to be unsustainable, it was enough for people to think it was worth seeing if he could be a useful 4th liner. People were fine with him being re-signed too ($700k per year, two way contract, for two years), which showed it wasn't as black and white as you're suggesting. Unfortunately that thread is now gone... but I posted it before as proof.

Here's another thread where you can see similar sentiments in posts from January 2015 and a little after.
Chris VandeVelde

VDV only became a huge problem after that contract was signed, when Hakstol decided he was a top shutdown player who should be used against opponents top players and to finish every damn game. THAT was where the problem came from, Hextalls horrible failure with the coaching staff. It's just like with Bellemare. Started off as a fine addition, then everyone hated him once Hakstol did dumb stuff with him, and now that he's gone we have further proof that the coaching/usage was the real problem with that 4th line.
 
Beef Invictus

Beef Invictus

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Striiker said:
It's not a fact, it's a sample picked out of a larger group. Overall it was a mixed bag.

Here's a group that of positive additions.
Gudas, Bellemare, Gagner, Del Zotto, White, Neuvirth, Elliott, Folin, and JVR. (I refuse to put Weal on this list, although others probably would have)

And Vandevelde was signed by Holmgren and then brought up by Hextall in 2014-2015, where he was actually semi-decent in the second half. He scored 9 goals that year, and while that was known to be unsustainable, it was enough for people to think it was worth seeing if he could be a useful 4th liner. People were fine with him being re-signed too ($700k per year, two way contract, for two years), which showed it wasn't as black and white as you're suggesting. Unfortunately that thread is now gone... but I posted it before as proof.

Here's another thread where you can see similar sentiments in posts from January 2015 and a little after.
Chris VandeVelde

VDV only became a huge problem after that contract was signed, when Hakstol decided he was a top shutdown player who should be used against opponents top players and to finish every damn game. THAT was where the problem came from, Hextalls horrible failure with the coaching staff. It's just like with Bellemare. Started off as a fine addition, then everyone hated him once Hakstol did dumb stuff with him, and now that he's gone we have further proof that the coaching/usage was the real problem with that 4th line.
Click to expand...

Classifying Gagner, White, and Neuvy's second stint as positive is extremely generous.

VDV was a problem from the start. He was not an NHL caliber player. It is a GM's job to recognize that. Hextall habitually failed at that and had a tendency to bring in poor talent.

It's telling that so many of the "positive" ones came so early in his tenure. Then he sequestered himself into a bunker with a couple guys and churned out...JVR and doubling down on a crippled Neuvirth. Oh boy.

Will there be a point where you look around and realize you're the only person defending Hextall's record with evaluating existing NHL talent and wonder why that is?
 
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Striiker

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
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Beef Invictus said:
Classifying Gagner, White, and Neuvy's second stint as positive is extremely generous.

VDV was a problem from the start. He was not an NHL caliber player. It is a GM's job to recognize that. Hextall habitually failed at that and had a tendency to bring in poor talent.

It's telling that so many of the "positive" ones came so early in his tenure. Then he sequestered himself into a bunker with a couple guys and churned out...JVR and doubling down on a crippled Neuvirth. Oh boy.
Click to expand...

We were talking about external additions of NHL players, so I'm strictly speaking about the initial additions of guys. AKA, Neuvirths first contract.

Later in his tenure his roster additions were mostly internal instead of external. He signed most of those guys I listed as early placeholders while the first guys he drafted were on their way. Gudas is still a very good player and Folin is a fine #7. Guys like Gagner, Del Zotto, etc were zero risk, possible reward type guys who had skill and might've just needed a change of scenery. Even White was perfectly fine here and many were sad to see him go. Regardless, forget nitpicking just how good they were, the point is it wasn't all garbage.

And again, no, VDV was not a problem from the start. You don't need to believe me. You can look at the link I posted and see others who thought the same thing. He started off as a nothing player, then showed a bit of potential in the second half of his first full year here, people wanted him signed, he got an extremely harmless contract, and then Hakstol did stupid things. Where Hextall really failed was the coaching problem and that had ripple effects all over the team... like with Vandevelde.
 
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