Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVII: What An Ugly Number

[Beef Invictus]

So believing that Claude Giroux wasn't treated badly by the team or fans is allegedly indefensible "trolling" with the implication that it should be censored.

Just because a minority of fans criticized Giroux on occasion, and the team decided it didn't make sense for a non=playoff team to extend a 35-year-old for three more years at $20M, doesn't mean Giroux was "treated badly."

That's essentially alleging that anything other than 100% hero worship and reverence for Giroux is "bad treatment" and "trolling."

Kiss Claude's ring or be censored! What a position to take.

Big talk from the guy who censors me.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

In this day and age, is there a player who doesn't get crap from a vocal minority of fans on the internet?
The internet, as we've seen, amplifies the opinions of small groups of extreme commentators, whether it's sports or politics, creating the illusion that those opinions are widely held.

They worked with G to send him where he wanted to go, but if you're not going to sign JG, why would you bring back G?

I think G understood the Flyers weren't going to be competitive for a couple years, and he probably didn't want to do the TDL shuffle again with young children (leave your family for two months). So if he were to come back to Philly, it wasn't going to be a one year deal, rather, something similar to what he got from Ottawa.

And given the Flyers' current situation, where they're going to move out JVR at the TDL if possible (if not before), they aren't in position to give a 35 year old LW a 3yr/$20M deal to make the team a few points better.

From Meltzer:

"Tortorella was not hired -- nor would he have accepted the job if offered -- to oversee another lost season in the hopes of increased lottery odds. He is here to coach the team to be as competitive as it be both in the near term and for the long haul.

 

[DancingPanther]

Clarke's grimy fingerprints are all over Lindros just like they're all over the worst iteration of the Flyers this franchise has ever seen. All he does is tarnish. Be it the roster itself, former executives, the reputation of players... all to just save his face as the premier Flyers deity and feed his ego. Clarke is the worst executive in all of sports, not counting anyone defamed by legitimate, bigger-than-sports type scandal.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Clarke's grimy fingerprints are all over Lindros just like they're all over the worst iteration of the Flyers this franchise has ever seen. All he does is tarnish. Be it the roster itself, former executives, the reputation of players... all to just save his face as the premier Flyers deity and feed his ego. Clarke is the worst executive in all of sports, not counting anyone defamed by legitimate, bigger-than-sports type scandal.

Bruce Allen used to edge him out but he's out of a job and testifying before Congress over the environment he helped build and maintain. Right now, actually.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Lindros' overbearing, meddlesome family was nothing but a complete pain-in-the-ass to deal with.

Trying to dictate who played on Lindros' line, suggesting trades, refusing to play in Sault Ste Marie, refusing to play in Quebec, and generally non-stop complaining.

They accused the Flyers of trying to kill their son, for F's sake.

You can only take so much, and with the Lindros family everything was about Eric over the team. Of course Bob Clarke was going to defend the Flyers organization and its staff. That's what he does.

But the vast majority of the Flyers' fanbase treated Lindros the player like a deity, and still do to this day.

 

[BernieParent]

A plea from someone trying to avoid the endless bickering: could this thread just be about other team / league stuff, please? I'll be more than happy to continue to ignore the roster and other Flyer-specific threads.

 

[Evergreen]

From Meltzer:

"Tortorella was not hired -- nor would he have accepted the job if offered -- to oversee another lost season in the hopes of increased lottery odds. He is here to coach the team to be as competitive as it be both in the near term and for the long haul.

The modicum of success Torts will likely squeeze out of this pathetic roster will come at the expense of long-term success because it will only serve to worsen our draft pick, not to make us a legitimately competitive team.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The modicum of success Torts will likely squeeze out of this pathetic roster will come at the expense of long-term success because it will only serve to worsen our draft pick, not to make us a legitimately competitive team.

Tru dat

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A plea from someone trying to avoid the endless bickering: could this thread just be about other team / league stuff, please? I'll be more than happy to continue to ignore the roster and other Flyer-specific threads.

GREAT POST.

Listen to Bern.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lindros' overbearing, meddlesome family was nothing but a complete pain-in-the-ass to deal with.

Trying to dictate who played on Lindros' line, suggesting trades, refusing to play in Sault Ste Marie, refusing to play in Quebec, and generally non-stop complaining.

They accused the Flyers of trying to kill their son, for F's sake.

You can only take so much, and with the Lindros family everything was about Eric over the team. Of course Bob Clarke was going to defend the Flyers organization and its staff. That's what he does.

But the vast majority of the Flyers' fanbase treated Lindros the player like a deity, and still do to this day.

Clarke's overbearing ego is a complete pain in the ass to deal with and has repeatedly done massive damage to the team

 

[GapToothedWonder]

GREAT POST.

Listen to Bern.

You have the power to make it happen.

 

[deadhead]

From Meltzer:

"Tortorella was not hired -- nor would he have accepted the job if offered -- to oversee another lost season in the hopes of increased lottery odds. He is here to coach the team to be as competitive as it be both in the near term and for the long haul.

Torts has repeatedly deflated expectations for the coming season, and so has Fletcher.
Charlie reported that the FO doesn't expect to be a playoff team this season.

This is going to be an evaluation season, much like when he took over CBJ or started in TB.
Install his schemes then evaluate both veterans, and as the season goes along, prospects, with regard to who he'll want to keep for 2023-24.

Torts doesn't coach to lose, a big part of evaluating players is to weed out those who are too complacent and accept losing. But that's part of building "culture," playing hard every night.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If they want to build a “winning culture” they’d be better severed to start with the losers in the front office.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Torts has repeatedly deflated expectations for the coming season, and so has Fletcher.
Charlie reported that the FO doesn't expect to be a playoff team this season.

This is going to be an evaluation season, much like when he took over CBJ or started in TB.
Install his schemes then evaluate both veterans, and as the season goes along, prospects, with regard to who he'll want to keep for 2023-24.

Torts doesn't coach to lose, a big part of evaluating players is to weed out those who are too complacent and accept losing. But that's part of building "culture," playing hard every night.

Well a Flyers employee is saying a little different. Trying to win as many games as possible was always the goal from day 1 imo. Nothing they did over the summer makes me believe otherwise.

The feeling at the facility is to be as competitive as possible, and Tortorella was hired to squeeze as many wins as possible out of the roster he has. That would be done by hammering structure and commitment to team D. You can at least be a playoff bubble team if your GAA is lowered enough, even if the offense is below the median.

That's what they are pushing heavily to the players. It can work for a year or two (see the Coyotes of the early 2010s especially the 107-point season under Tippett with the leading scorer having 55 points) but long -term, you need to grow in various directions including offensively.
- bmeltzer

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts has repeatedly deflated expectations for the coming season, and so has Fletcher.
Charlie reported that the FO doesn't expect to be a playoff team this season.

This is going to be an evaluation season, much like when he took over CBJ or started in TB.
Install his schemes then evaluate both veterans, and as the season goes along, prospects, with regard to who he'll want to keep for 2023-24.

Torts doesn't coach to lose, a big part of evaluating players is to weed out those who are too complacent and accept losing. But that's part of building "culture," playing hard every night.

Tortorella doesn't decide who is on the roster or not. Fletcher does. Coaches are not GMs.

And if Fletcher is handing roster control to every coach he hires, that doesn't somehow absolve him of blame. He's just as culpable as ever for giving up control and letting someone else do his job, which is bad management.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A plea from someone trying to avoid the endless bickering: could this thread just be about other team / league stuff, please? I'll be more than happy to continue to ignore the roster and other Flyer-specific threads.

Listen to Bern!

 

[Rebels57]

A plea from someone trying to avoid the endless bickering: could this thread just be about other team / league stuff, please? I'll be more than happy to continue to ignore the roster and other Flyer-specific threads.

Thanks, Bern. Enough of that shit goes on in the Roster Thread as is. We can't have it ruining multiple valued threads.

 

[deadhead]

Well a Flyers employee is saying a little different. Trying to win as many games as possible was always the goal from day 1 imo. Nothing they did over the summer makes me believe otherwise.

The feeling at the facility is to be as competitive as possible, and Tortorella was hired to squeeze as many wins as possible out of the roster he has. That would be done by hammering structure and commitment to team D. You can at least be a playoff bubble team if your GAA is lowered enough, even if the offense is below the median.

That's what they are pushing heavily to the players. It can work for a year or two (see the Coyotes of the early 2010s especially the 107-point season under Tippett with the leading scorer having 55 points) but long -term, you need to grow in various directions including offensively.
- bmeltzer

I think Meltzer doesn't understand Torts.

Torts is not Hakstol, play it conservative and hope to squeeze out wins, the only time he did that was after his GM let his top scorer and his starting goaltender leave in the same offseason, leaving him limited options.

He plays a high speed game, aggressive forechecking with two deep, but he expects players to skate hard on the backcheck.
The results is a high level of scoring chances for both teams.
He does emphasize getting players to the net on offense, lots of high danger shots.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A plea from someone trying to avoid the endless bickering: could this thread just be about other team / league stuff, please? I'll be more than happy to continue to ignore the roster and other Flyer-specific threads.

Listen. To. Bern.

 

[Curufinwe]

Bellemare is on the new 32 Thoughts Podcast.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Man that gold looks terrible.

 

[BernieParent]

Listen. To. Bern.

I'm sorry I was not the clarion call you hoped I would be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It can't be this hard to do a yellow/gold jersey.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

So believing that Claude Giroux wasn't treated badly by the team or fans is allegedly indefensible "trolling" with the implication that it should be censored.

Just because a minority of fans criticized Giroux on occasion, and the team decided it didn't make sense for a non=playoff team to extend a 35-year-old for three more years at $20M, doesn't mean Giroux was "treated badly."

That's essentially alleging that anything other than 100% hero worship and reverence for Giroux is "bad treatment" and "trolling."

Kiss Claude's ring or be censored! What a position to take.

It wasn't occasionally, It was all year every year after 2013