NHL Talk Miscellaneous NHL Discussion CIX: Processing a Tremendous Amount of Insane Information

[Beef Invictus]

I think you're overrating 3rd line forwards on most teams.

Not really. The Flyers are chiefly 3rd liners or below.

 

[deadhead]

Not really. The Flyers are chiefly 3rd liners or below.

EH (no empty net goals):
The median 2nd line forward would be #144. Median 3rd line #240.
TK scores at 1st line rate, Michkov, Tippett 2nd line

Top scoring forwards 2023-2025 (1 1/2 seasons):

TK (29)

Tippett (105)

Farabee (147)
Frost (151)
Laughton (154)
Couts (171)
Foerster (196)
Poehling (237)
Brink (240)

Cates (264)

This season

TK (15)

Michkov (78)
Tippett (117)

Laughton (145)
Frost (152)
Couts (177)
Foerster (180)
Brink (182)
Cates (191)
Hathaway (235)

Poehling (246)
Farabee (252)

 

[Beef Invictus]

EH (no empty net goals):
The median 2nd line forward would be #144. Median 3rd line #240.
TK scores at 1st line rate, Michkov, Tippett 2nd line

Top scoring forwards 2023-2025 (1 1/2 seasons):

TK (29)

Tippett (105)

Farabee (147)
Frost (151)
Laughton (154)
Couts (171)
Foerster (196)
Poehling (237)
Brink (240)

Cates (264)

This season

TK (15)

Michkov (78)
Tippett (117)

Laughton (145)
Frost (152)
Couts (177)
Foerster (180)
Brink (182)
Cates (191)
Hathaway (235)

Poehling (246)
Farabee (252)

Yeah, like I said. 2-3 top six players. Flood of 3rd liners. You're very effectively proving my points today.

As one of the most effective creators and setup guys on the team, it would be best to have him with our best producers instead of the slew of 3rd liners. The past has proven that he would immediately produce at a higher level, and so will the guys he's with. Playmaking is really important and highly effective, even though the Flyers hate it.

Edit: You are forgetting a lot of mediocre players on this team are getting upjumped usage because there's nobody else to play. Damned near most of this team is lower on any other depth chart elsewhere.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

EH (no empty net goals):

!!!!

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, like I said. 2-3 top six players. Flood of 3rd liners. You're very effectively proving my points today.

As one of the most effective creators and setup guys on the team, it would be best to have him with our best producers instead of the slew of 3rd liners. The past has proven that he would immediately produce at a higher level, and so will the guys he's with. Playmaking is really important and highly effective, even though the Flyers hate it.

Edit: You are forgetting a lot of mediocre players on this team are getting upjumped usage because there's nobody else to play. Damned near most of this team is lower on any other depth chart elsewhere.

Frost has played mostly with the three top forwards, who'd be top 6 on any team.
So you have run out of excuses for him.
Cates is outscoring him playing with Foerster and Brink, two inexperienced forwards you'd consider "3rd line."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost has played mostly with the three top forwards, who'd be top 6 on any team.
So you have run out of excuses for him.
Cates is outscoring him playing with Foerster and Brink, two inexperienced forwards you'd consider "3rd line."

Tk would be top 6 on any team. There are many teams where Michkov and Tippett are not. Likewise Frost.

And he has spent far more time with Tippett and MM (a restrained MM at that) than he has with TK; twice as much time, as I recall. He has only recently been put back with him. And he immediately began producing again while TK has also seen a boost.

I don't need to make excuses for him? He's proven to be a reliable middle six center which is what I predicted he would be. The team has also gone out of their way to get the least out of him as often as possible, too, which is ridiculous given their lack of talent. All of these things can be true at once. Whenever he's put in position to produce he does, so why would it be his fault when he doesn't produce when not in position to do so? He's no star player. It's a coach's job to get the most out of his players. There is no way to argue that the Flyers have been doing that with the bulk of their roster.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I just noticed that "Cates is outscoring" him bit. He's not, though.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Check those individual stats. It becomes clear that, in agreement with the eye test, Frost is more self sufficient while Cates is more benefiting efforts by his linemates (on offense).

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Colorado.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Colorado.

Some guys have all the luck.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Sad day, @CanadianFlyer88

 

[renberg]

Sad day, @CanadianFlyer88

At 5,375,000 X three left on his contract, I doubt that anyone would claim him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At 5,375,000 X three left on his contract, I doubt that anyone would claim him.

I had to make sure we don't have space. I don't think Ellis is formally on LTIR right now though so the team might be able to make cap space happen if they need to.

 

[Curufinwe]

I just noticed that "Cates is outscoring" him bit. He's not, though.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Not sure what the time period in question was, but after last night Frost has moved one point ahead of 1Cates in 5on5 scoring this season. Overall, under Torts he's 23 points ahead, or scoring at 1.89 P/60 vs 1.46.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[BigToe]

You love to see it

 

[ybnvs]

Does anyone else wonder if Beefy/Deady are in cahoots to spur site discussion?

These guys are relentless! I love it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

You love to see it

yea whatever... we got meat n potatos..

skill doesnt win SC rings.. thats the realm of tryhard grinders...

oh wait...

 

[Strawberry Fields]

You love to see it

Your profile pic is REALLY throwing me off