Mirtle: End is near for Hyman in Toronto

[myleafs]

True leaders aren’t sheep. If he’s bitter over another man making more money then he’s just as guilty of being greedy.

Why did Spezza take <1m again? As far as I’m concerned, what Hyman is doing is just as worthy of criticism as the big ticket guys. He is chasing an albatross contract that far exceeds his value.

He wanted to end his career at home near family.....also he has already made 88 milly in his career.

 

[TheDoldrums]

That's not "news" to me. This happens to be the Hyman thread, but yes I would agree that this is not a phenomena that's specific to Hyman.

I would make these two other observations though:

a) Two (or multiple) wrongs don't make a right. This tendency is not something to be proud about I'd think.
b) You can't really generalize by saying "the board". The board is not that homogeneous and people don't have just one opinion on a given topic.

The point is these Olympic level back flips you're observing are relatively tame compared to how opinion has shifted quickly on players like Matthews and Marner so I'm surprised you would find it amazing.

Also lol at being pedantic about generalizing "the board" when I was responding to your post about how most people here went from loving him to wanting him gone. I really didn't think anyone would need clarification that I wasn't actually referring to every single member of this board when responding to your own generalization, but here we are.

 

[shortfuze]

Good: Spezza, Muzzin, Brodie, Bogo.
The really, really super awful deals he gave to his BFFs: The Big 4.
Outside of those: Andreas was probably the biggest overpay.

Why is Nylanders deal awful? He is paid right with his comparable.

 

[Knies iT]

Is his family giving him anything ? Or maybe they said make it on your own , which he can do for cheaper but like with comrie just cuz their parents are rich doesn't mean you can shortchange them be it respect for what they have done or trying to make it on their own as an adult . (obv with help most kids get growing up)

Of course, I’m not saying he should leach off his family and sign for 700k. Simply putting into perspective that a financial whale is haggling over a 4m+ annual offer. Sports are a business, but people far worse off have taken far less for the collective goal of winning. People like to point at AM/MM setting the standard but they are not even remote comparables for Hyman and if he’s bitter that they broke the bank, that’s just pathetic, not “righteous” like some are making it seem.

 

[myleafs]

Ya, its amazing how people's opinions change so drastically. Most loved the guy a few weeks ago, now he's a seriously flawed player and folks are saying good riddance. This is Olympic level back flips and a good demonstration of how fickle some can be.

I must not be reading the same things you are. What I am reading by the vast majority is everyone loves Hyman and his work ethic and motor, that hasn't changed. What has changed is if he wants north of 5 milly, then thats a problem for most for what he brings kinda like how most will acknowledge that Marner has some serious skills but for 11 milly, its a questionable contract that appears to be hurting the team.

 

[socko]

Oh, I didn't realize that was his ask. It's too bad because he seems to compliment AM well.

He's the type of player the habs need because of what he brings to the ice but idk if I'd want to pay him over ~4.25

That seems about right. Hyman is probably a 40 point guy when playing on a line with similar talent to himself. I think Hyman is working over Dubas right now. I don't think he has any real intention of leaving the Leafs. He has watched what has worked before for others, and is following suit.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I must not be reading the same things you are. What I am reading by the vast majority is everyone loves Hyman and his work ethic and motor, that hasn't changed. What has changed is if he wants north of 5 milly, then thats a problem for most for what he brings kinda like how most will acknowledge that Marner has some serious skills but for 11 milly, its a questionable contract that appears to be hurting the team.

Ya, your either not (really) reading the same things or something. I have already explained this, but will explain again. The increase in salary is NOT what I'm talking about it. I can understand that fans would love to see a lower salary. But some are now calling him a lousy player (playoff underachiever, etc.) and are saying good riddance.

 

[myleafs]

Ya, your either not (really) reading the same things or something. I have already explained this, but will explain again. The increase in salary is NOT what I'm talking about it. I can understand that fans would love to see a lower salary. But some are now calling him a lousy player (playoff underachiever, etc.) and are saying good riddance.

You were saying swaths of people are turning on Hyman whereas last week or last month they loved him...I don't see it that way. Most opinions of wanting him to be let go are directly aligned with what salary and term he would want. Him getting older or not being offensively gifted or beaten down with injuries are all part of that discussion. If Hyman would take the same salary, nobody would have a problem with it and would love it in fact. At 5 milly not so much for all the above reasons.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The point is these Olympic level back flips you're observing are relatively tame compared to how opinion has shifted quickly on players like Matthews and Marner so I'm surprised you would find it amazing.

Also lol at being pedantic about generalizing "the board" when I was responding to your post about how most people here went from loving him to wanting him gone. I really didn't think anyone would need clarification that I wasn't actually referring to every single member of this board when responding to your own generalization, but here we are.

Once again, I don't think the back flips are anything new or that they are specific to Hyman. I've already said that but you seem to have got this in your head and want to run with it for whatever reason.

As for the 2nd sentence, my goal was to point out that not all posters have this tendency to denigrate a player once a situation changes i.e., wants a new (higher dollar) contract. This behaviour is more specific to certain posters and their personalities.

Please feel free to not reply any more on this topic. Its not going anywhere worthwhile and I certainly would not be offended.

 

[Seanaconda]

Of course, I’m not saying he should leach off his family and sign for 700k. Simply putting into perspective that a financial whale is haggling over a 4m+ annual offer. Sports are a business, but people far worse off have taken far less for the collective goal of winning. People like to point at AM/MM setting the standard but they are not even remote comparables for Hyman and if he’s bitter that they broke the bank, that’s just pathetic, not “righteous” like some are making it seem.

Hmm idk I don't think many other teams need what he brings more than Toronto so maybe you can bring in a cheaper replacement or wait for free agency and hope Noone else bites

 

[Suntouchable13]

Oh, I didn't realize that was his ask. It's too bad because he seems to compliment AM well.

He's the type of player the habs need because of what he brings to the ice but idk if I'd want to pay him over ~4.25

I don't know for sure that that's his ask, but it's just being reported that way.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Of course, I’m not saying he should leach off his family and sign for 700k. Simply putting into perspective that a financial whale is haggling over a 4m+ annual offer. Sports are a business, but people far worse off have taken far less for the collective goal of winning. People like to point at AM/MM setting the standard but they are not even remote comparables for Hyman and if he’s bitter that they broke the bank, that’s just pathetic, not “righteous” like some are making it seem.

Either chase big money or stay home to play for a million or 2 less.

 

[rumman]

Hyman’s family is filthy rich to the point they have generational wealth beyond what Spezza’s entire career earnings amount to. I have close friends who’s family are his direct neighbours and believe me, if Hyman never made a dime off of his businesses or NHL salary, he’d still be in the 1%.

Irrelevant, Hyman is a warrior, why would put his body thur the punishment he endues doing all the dirty work the divas can’t do for peanuts? If he’s sooooo rich why play hockey at all? He does it because he loves the game, and regardless of finances you should aways know your worth.....

 

[egd27]

I really like his Brodie Signing, Bogo.............that's all I got.

Muzzin, Brodie, Bogo......were they good (as in team friendly) signings or were they just fair market value signings?

I don't know.

 

[Mess]

So what would you pay Hyman?

Here is the problem .. In most cases an organization wouldn't have a problem giving a warrior like Hyman that plays up and down the line-up and brings lots of intangibles as well as capable of +20 goals a year a minor +$2.5 mil raise to $5 mil per unless of course you're in Cap Hell paying 4 forwards 1/2 your cap and then that is too rich for your blood for cap reasons.

So now you have to go dumpster diving and bargain bin shopping to find someone to replace all that Hyman does but you have to do that for Hyman's old price or less, which is easier said than done. You think there are a lot of +20 goal scorers sitting around in free agency and play a hard physical game with a high compete engine waiting to take Leafs low ball offer on the open market?

Then on top of that you also weaken your team further because let a solid player like Hyman walk for Free, and get no return for once a valuable member of your team. So if you sign an inferior player simply because he's cheaper and lose a better player then you weaken your team not make it stronger by this roster move. You have to make other roster moves simply to equal the loss of Hyman. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole here.

Chalk up another casualty to the Marner ugly contract.

I fully believe Hyman is going to get his $5 mil ask, just not from the Leafs.

 

[93LEAFS]

Hyman’s family is filthy rich to the point they have generational wealth beyond what Spezza’s entire career earnings amount to. I have close friends who’s family are his direct neighbours and believe me, if Hyman never made a dime off of his businesses or NHL salary, he’d still be in the 1%.

His family's loaded, but he has 5 or so siblings (and if his family is like most development money in Forest Hill, the money is generally from the Grandfather and is spread amongst cousins). I don't think Stuart Hyman is worth about 500m. I grew up in the area around Hyman, and I know even more successful families in the same field. I think you are underestimating what Spezza has made in his career. Spezza has made 89m USD prior to agent fees, escrow, and taxes. He has likely banked around 45m to 50m USD.

Plus, family money is family money until you actually inherit it.

 

[United35]

If you had the choice today, would you rather sign JT for 4 x 11 (his remaining term) or Hyman for 6 x 6 ?

JT

 

[Mess]

Get your signed Zach Hyman here .. Get them before he is gone.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Actually don’t think it will be that bad. The top guys might actually get up for any game they have to play against him. It’s compete level that kills this team.

 

[ps241]

His family's loaded, but he has 5 or so siblings (and if his family is like most development money in Forest Hill, the money is generally from the Grandfather and is spread amongst cousins). I don't think Stuart Hyman is worth about 500m. I grew up in the area around Hyman, and I know even more successful families in the same field. I think you are underestimating what Spezza has made in his career. Spezza has made 89m USD prior to agent fees, escrow, and taxes. He has likely banked around 45m to 50m USD.

Plus, family money is family money until you actually inherit it.

Also development money can be deceptive since allot of the wealth is on the balance sheet. It’s still wealth but the value can be tied up. Zach doesn’t seem like a trust fund baby that is coasting and content. My guess is he will be motivated to optimize his well earned payday. There is also allot of professional pride in that next deal which could be his last big contract.

I know it counterintuitive but the richest people I know always go for the jugular and would be the last people on earth to leave a dime on the negotiating table.

 

[socko]

Muzzin, Brodie, Bogo......were they good (as in team friendly) signings or were they just fair market value signings?

I don't know.

Fair market, which is the best possible outcome with Dubas, save for Spezza, who is a self-made steal. I really don't get why Spezza does it, even if he only wants to play in Toronto, he could work it like the other guys do. He's 1 of a kind on this team of greedy never won a damn thingers.

 

[rumman]

Actually don’t think it will be that bad. The top guys might actually get up for any game they have to play against him. It’s compete level that kills this team.

No doubt they have the tools, just not interested in putting in the work.....

 

[rumman]

Fair market, which is the best possible outcome with Dubas, save for Spezza, who is a self-made steal. I really don't get why Spezza does it, even if he only wants to play in Toronto, he could work it like the other guys do. He's 1 of a kind on this team of greedy never won a damn thingers.

Completely agree, not sure why any player would want to come here under the current conditions let alone for peanuts if other options are available?

 

[egd27]

Why is Nylanders deal awful? He is paid right with his comparable.

Who do you believe his comparable is?

 

[Stephen]

Fair market, which is the best possible outcome with Dubas, save for Spezza, who is a self-made steal. I really don't get why Spezza does it, even if he only wants to play in Toronto, he could work it like the other guys do. He's 1 of a kind on this team of greedy never won a damn thingers.

Spezza will probably end up taking a front office job one day. They'll call it the "Spezzaera."