Minor hockey tryouts (was: How to motivate a novice (or any) player for tryouts?)

[Yukon Joe]

I feel sorry for your kids Joe and I feel sorry for your issues, so I’ll let you get in that desperately needed last word.

You're going to have to come up with some better bait than that, Poppy.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

One of the odder Exchanges I’ve seen on this site...

 

[ChuckLefley]

One of the odder Exchanges I’ve seen on this site...

Yes it is odd, because he can’t stop. Everything I’ve said is 100% true, but he refuses to see that he has done anything in the least bit questionable and now has to get in the last word. He’s pretty much the textbook example of bad sports parenting.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yes it is odd, because he can’t stop. Everything I’ve said is 100% true, but he refuses to see that he has done anything in the least bit questionable and now has to get in the last word. He’s pretty much the textbook example of bad sports parenting.

You need to troll harder. You're not getting a reaction today.

 

[Slats432]

I think that Chuck and Yukon should be stopped from talking to each other because it brings zero value to the conversation. You guys should talk about the subject and not each other.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So anyways, to go back on topic of motivation...

We're no longer in tryouts. My kids have their teams. My oldest has always been the one who loved hockey the most. Sometimes he could pay attention a bit better in practice, but he generally gives it his all.

My youngest is the one that has really opened my eyes this year. He's not a great player, but this is his first year where he's tiered with other players of his skill level. Now that he's not being clearly outclassed by other kids he's really flourishing.

But my middle kid... We asked him in the spring about going into hockey - he said yes. We asked him in the fall about playing hockey - he said he wanted to. We gave him the choice to play something else - he said no I'll play hockey. But when he's out there he's usually just looks bored and uninterested most of the time. He's not trying very hard in his practices, only skating at maybe 50% speed, not paying much attention to the coaches. Last year during games (no games yet this year) I'd repeatedly have to tell him just simple things like "two hands on your stick" and "pay attention to the puck".

Not sure what the best dad move here is. Obviously I haven't gotten mad at him, but it kind of seems like a waste of time and effort to keep playing hockey when his obvious body language is that he isn't enjoying it. And the thing is he's a pretty good skater when he puts his mind to it.

Of course, none of my kids are going to make a living playing hockey (not with having me as their father). I don't care how long or short their hockey careers are. My wife and I put them into sports because of the benefits of physical exercise, plus the life lessons you learn about team work, hard work and dedication.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[Slats432]

So anyways, to go back on topic of motivation...

We're no longer in tryouts. My kids have their teams. My oldest has always been the one who loved hockey the most. Sometimes he could pay attention a bit better in practice, but he generally gives it his all.

My youngest is the one that has really opened my eyes this year. He's not a great player, but this is his first year where he's tiered with other players of his skill level. Now that he's not being clearly outclassed by other kids he's really flourishing.

But my middle kid... We asked him in the spring about going into hockey - he said yes. We asked him in the fall about playing hockey - he said he wanted to. We gave him the choice to play something else - he said no I'll play hockey. But when he's out there he's usually just looks bored and uninterested most of the time. He's not trying very hard in his practices, only skating at maybe 50% speed, not paying much attention to the coaches. Last year during games (no games yet this year) I'd repeatedly have to tell him just simple things like "two hands on your stick" and "pay attention to the puck".

Not sure what the best dad move here is. Obviously I haven't gotten mad at him, but it kind of seems like a waste of time and effort to keep playing hockey when his obvious body language is that he isn't enjoying it. And the thing is he's a pretty good skater when he puts his mind to it.

Of course, none of my kids are going to make a living playing hockey (not with having me as their father). I don't care how long or short their hockey careers are. My wife and I put them into sports because of the benefits of physical exercise, plus the life lessons you learn about team work, hard work and dedication.

Any thoughts or advice?

You can't will motivation into a kid. We have 5, and one of them is the least motivated, and no matter how much coaching (That you can do to a 27 year old) nothing changes it.

Here is what I explain to the kid.
---
There is only so much time in the day to do things. For me as a parent, I have to take care of work, the house, the other kids. You have your school, chores, homework. We are in this together. If you don't want to or don't enjoy hockey, I don't want either you or I to invest our time in it. From what I see, when you aren't trying your best, is that you just don't feel like it or like it. And when I don't see you putting in an effort or having fun, I don't have fun either.

I don't care how well you do. Whether you score or make passes or skate as fast as the other players...that doesn't matter. What matters is you have fun and try your best.

So, you get to decide. If you want to play hockey, we can do it as a family, but you have to try your best and find the fun in it. If you don't, we figure out what you might like better and go after that instead.
---
Or something along those lines.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So anyways, to go back on topic of motivation...

We're no longer in tryouts. My kids have their teams. My oldest has always been the one who loved hockey the most. Sometimes he could pay attention a bit better in practice, but he generally gives it his all.

My youngest is the one that has really opened my eyes this year. He's not a great player, but this is his first year where he's tiered with other players of his skill level. Now that he's not being clearly outclassed by other kids he's really flourishing.

But my middle kid... We asked him in the spring about going into hockey - he said yes. We asked him in the fall about playing hockey - he said he wanted to. We gave him the choice to play something else - he said no I'll play hockey. But when he's out there he's usually just looks bored and uninterested most of the time. He's not trying very hard in his practices, only skating at maybe 50% speed, not paying much attention to the coaches. Last year during games (no games yet this year) I'd repeatedly have to tell him just simple things like "two hands on your stick" and "pay attention to the puck".

Not sure what the best dad move here is. Obviously I haven't gotten mad at him, but it kind of seems like a waste of time and effort to keep playing hockey when his obvious body language is that he isn't enjoying it. And the thing is he's a pretty good skater when he puts his mind to it.

Of course, none of my kids are going to make a living playing hockey (not with having me as their father). I don't care how long or short their hockey careers are. My wife and I put them into sports because of the benefits of physical exercise, plus the life lessons you learn about team work, hard work and dedication.

Any thoughts or advice?

Lots of kids don’t care if they are the best ones on the ice.

They just want to play the game and have fun with their buddies.

Often it looks like they aren’t having fun, but they are. It’s different POVs.

I coached a girl who would literally go into the corner and stand there during play and acted like she didn’t want to be there...

Yet when her mom threatened to take hockey away she got really upset. She loved being part of the team and leading the cheer the kids did before the game...

I had a friend who had a daughter that did the exact same thing and she pulled her out of hockey.

The girl was upset, but found something she loved more which was equestrian riding which she is good at.

Kids just like the social aspect of being on a team, but don’t always have the motivation to push themselves to be good players (or even try hard sometimes).

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah, it's such a mixed bag amongst kids. That's why it's important not to generalize or to just judge based on what you think you see as an outsider. Guaranteed you are not seeing the whole story, not even if you are their coach.

Age matters a lot too. If they're under 15 and/or under AAA/Tier 1 levels, I would say just forget about everything entirely and go with the flow. Everything is fun, everything is praise, everything is sunshine, rainbows and lollipops in any conversation you ever have with them about hockey. Once they get older and can understand how to have a constructive conversation about things they could do differently, then MAYBE you can talk to them about hockey, motivation, things like that. Or if they are in AAA and the costs become a factor maybe you can provide them a justification of why you won't let them try out at that level anymore, say. Past 15 you can have a conversation.

Under 15... you hold a door open, and if they decide to walk through it, great, if not also great. There's nothing you will say or do in hockey that matters in the end. Which is a hard thing to accept as a parent, and basically nobody does this 100% successfully, of course. So also accept that it's a trial and error process to some extent. The coach who has coached for 10 or 20 years also has completely lost sight of that side of things. Unless somebody takes it too unusual extremes, it's not like any real harm can ever come from a kid ultimately liking or hating hockey. Who really cares if you push your kid a little and it ends up that he hates hockey and you wasted all that money? Like I said somewhere else, I push my kid to clean up his bedroom and eat his vegetables. He still hates it. Who cares? When he's 18 he can go eat whatever he wants and live in a pigsty. We'll still love eachother just the same. I don't have the bandwidth to actually push my kids in hockey, but I can see how they might benefit from it once in a while, and I can see plenty of parents around me doing it. It's no biggie either way. Within practical limits. It's silly to blow these kinds of things out of proportion.

 

[ChuckLefley]

I think that Chuck and Yukon should be stopped from talking to each other because it brings zero value to the conversation. You guys should talk about the subject and not each other.

I stopped talking to him yesterday, he keeps replying to me, even when I am talking to someone else about the topic. He can’t help himself.

 

[ChuckLefley]

If you’re not the coach you shouldn’t be telling your kid anything during games or practice. Anyone who does this is being a crazy sports parent,

It’s not your place to decide Whether the kid likes it or not. Here is a crazy notion, ask the kid what he wants!

 

[Yukon Joe]

If you’re not the coach you shouldn’t be telling your kid anything during games or practice. Anyone who does this is being a crazy sports parent,

It’s not your place to decide Whether the kid likes it or not. Here is a crazy notion, ask the kid what he wants!

Since you gave a more-or-less serious answer, I'll respond in kind.

I am one of the assistant coaches. I agree that parents yelling instructions from the stands is stupid.

And I think you missed the central point of the dilemma - I have asked him. Several times. He says he wants to play hockey, but his body language says otherwise.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Since you gave a more-or-less serious answer, I'll respond in kind.

I am one of the assistant coaches. I agree that parents yelling instructions from the stands is stupid.

And I think you missed the central point of the dilemma - I have asked him. Several times. He says he wants to play hockey, but his body language says otherwise.

You are probably mis-reading his body language.

I remember my older brother ripping on me for being lazy when I was younger because I wasn’t trying hard enough in his words.

I was having fun though, but his impression was that I was a lazy ass who didn’t try.

He more or less was right and I eventually changed how I played as I matured, but when I was a “lollygagger” as my bro called me, I was still enjoying the hell out of it.

I just didn’t really care at that time about being a try hard.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If you’re not the coach you shouldn’t be telling your kid anything during games or practice. Anyone who does this is being a crazy sports parent,

It’s not your place to decide Whether the kid likes it or not. Here is a crazy notion, ask the kid what he wants!

How can any non-coaching parent tell their kids anything during games or practice? Do you just mean parents should never shout instructions from the stands? No kidding. But I doubt the kids ever hear anything but Charlie Brown teacher noises when that happens anyway.

It's silly to think that parents don't ask their kids what they want. 99.9% do. And about 90% then actually listen to what the kid says.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Since you gave a more-or-less serious answer, I'll respond in kind.

I am one of the assistant coaches. I agree that parents yelling instructions from the stands is stupid.

And I think you missed the central point of the dilemma - I have asked him. Several times. He says he wants to play hockey, but his body language says otherwise.

I have had many serious responses, but you don’t like them because they don’t fit your idea of what you should be doing as a sports parent. You’ve argued with anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

Remind me where, in this thread, you mentioned being an assistant coach. I don’t recall seeing that.

No, in your crazy hockey parent mindset, you missed the real central point....that you should be listening to your kids, not telling them what they need or what they think. You continue sully prove what I have said about you.

 

[ChuckLefley]

How can any non-coaching parent tell their kids anything during games or practice? Do you just mean parents should never shout instructions from the stands? No kidding. But I doubt the kids ever hear anything but Charlie Brown teacher noises when that happens anyway.

It's silly to think that parents don't ask their kids what they want. 99.9% do. And about 90% then actually listen to what the kid says.

If you read his posts, everything is about what he thinks is best. He finally mentioned asking his kid something and then said that he doesn’t think it’s true because of the kids body language. It’s all about what Joe wants, not what his kids want.

Even if we ignore him we can find examples in just about every level of youth sports and well known ones like Pete Marinovich and John O’Sullivan, to name just two.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I have had many serious responses, but you don’t like them because they don’t fit your idea of what you should be doing as a sports parent. You’ve argued with anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

Remind me where, in this thread, you mentioned being an assistant coach. I don’t recall seeing that.

No, in your crazy hockey parent mindset, you missed the real central point....that you should be listening to your kids, not telling them what they need or what they think. You continue sully prove what I have said about you.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Something else I just had occasion to recall in terms of parents being acceptable final arbiters in terms of hockey decisions. Kid's gear becomes impractically small/damaged. Kid says, but I love these gloves/pants/pads/whatever, I'm so used to them. They are so comfortable and I don't want to break in anything new. Dad says, tough. Your gloves/pants/pads/whatever have holes in them and are shedding little bits all over the ice every game and leaving parts of your body exposed. Dad decrees: you will break in something new.

You don't have to give your kid absolute authority over every decision. They're kids. They don't know what's really in their best interests. In many areas. They can express certain things, and you can listen, all well and good. But you can take it all in and still Know Better on their behalf.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Anyways, back to the question of motivation.

My oldest kid (2010) who I started this thread asking about, is now very motivated and really loves playing hockey. My middle kid (2012) is fairly motivated and likes hockey.

But now what about my youngest kid (2013)? He always complains when we say it's time to go to hockey but has fun once we get there - this is not unusual in kids. He's had a rough couple of years though: last year in Initiation he was placed on a super-stacked team and in games he basically never had meaningful touches with the puck. I had figured this year would be his year to shine because he was now tiered with kids of the appropriate skill level (low), but of course Covid happened and he hasn't played a game all year. And us coaches try our best but there's only so much fun to be had in doing nothing but practices.

So anyways, he's said 2-3 times he does not want to play hockey next year. He's old enough it's up to him, but I still think it's okay to have some influence on that decision. His brothers went through the same hesitancy at about the same age (as seen in this thread) and came through it liking hockey. And I saw a flash of it last weekend - coach had them play 3 on 3, short ice for the last 10 minutes (which is actually against public health orders, but whatever) and he played great, and what's more he had a big smile on his ice because he knew he did great.

Anything I can say or do now to try and convince him that, once it comes to hockey registration in June, to get him to agree to sign him up again?

 

[Slats432]

Anything I can say or do now to try and convince him that, once it comes to hockey registration in June, to get him to agree to sign him up again?

Convince isn't the right word. Explaining the pros and cons, and the alternatives. (If my son wanted to quit, we always told him, up to you but the exact same time you make that decision, the alternative would have to be chosen. Basketball, tennis, whatever) When ours quit a year and a half ago from Junior A, it always was his call.

Is there a clear understanding of why he wants to leave the game? Sometimes the solution is in the question. I heard a story of a kid that wanted to quit hockey. He was a goalie and quite good. 9-12 year old range I think. His reason for wanting to quit was the kids all jumped onto him when they won to celebrate and he hated that. He got the coach to correct it and the kids kept playing.

Understand the reason first.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Here we go again. Now the kid says he doesn’t want to play, multiple times, but you feel the need to convince him to play.

The only obsession I see here is a dads obsession with forcing his kid to live his dreams instead of the kids dreams.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Here we go again. Now the kid says he doesn’t want to play, multiple times, but you feel the need to convince him to play.

The only obsession I see here is a dads obsession with forcing his kid to live his dreams instead of the kids dreams.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Is it too difficult for you to come up with something to refute what I said or are you just mad that you know everything I’ve said about you is correct, so you take the 10 year old way of responding.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Anyways, back to the question of motivation.

My oldest kid (2010) who I started this thread asking about, is now very motivated and really loves playing hockey. My middle kid (2012) is fairly motivated and likes hockey.

But now what about my youngest kid (2013)? He always complains when we say it's time to go to hockey but has fun once we get there - this is not unusual in kids. He's had a rough couple of years though: last year in Initiation he was placed on a super-stacked team and in games he basically never had meaningful touches with the puck. I had figured this year would be his year to shine because he was now tiered with kids of the appropriate skill level (low), but of course Covid happened and he hasn't played a game all year. And us coaches try our best but there's only so much fun to be had in doing nothing but practices.

So anyways, he's said 2-3 times he does not want to play hockey next year. He's old enough it's up to him, but I still think it's okay to have some influence on that decision. His brothers went through the same hesitancy at about the same age (as seen in this thread) and came through it liking hockey. And I saw a flash of it last weekend - coach had them play 3 on 3, short ice for the last 10 minutes (which is actually against public health orders, but whatever) and he played great, and what's more he had a big smile on his ice because he knew he did great.

Anything I can say or do now to try and convince him that, once it comes to hockey registration in June, to get him to agree to sign him up again?

Let him quit for a season and see if he misses it... if he does, he can always play spring hockey.

If not, I wouldn’t force him back into it.

We all try to do the best we can for our kids... I’m having the opposite problem where my daughter is obsessed with hockey and it’s been a long season of travel hockey.

I told her no spring hockey - no debate and the decision was final. She was upset but finally accepted the decision my wife and I made.

I want her to play other sports and be a well rounded athlete and child that’s not fixated on one thing.

She’s signed up to play travel soccer this spring and she keeps complaining about it, but she always has fun when she plays. So it’s annoying when she complains, but I told her she doesn’t have to play.

However I made it clear whining about soccer doesn’t mean she gets to play spring hockey.

I feel we made a healthy decision for her and in the end you have to just trust your own instincts and not worry about what others think.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Is it too difficult for you to come up with something to refute what I said or are you just mad that you know everything I’ve said about you is correct, so you take the 10 year old way of responding.

We've been at this for 2 years Chuck. I've tried replying in good faith, and you just reply that I'm what's wrong with kids sports and call me names.