Minor hockey tryouts (was: How to motivate a novice (or any) player for tryouts?)

[Yukon Joe]

personally i did not grow up playing hockey but i did grow up playing baseball from about age 5 to 16. the politics and BS from parents involved in little league completely drew me away from the game and by 14 i knew i was done, now i don't watch baseball and hate the game. no matter the game kids will start to get competitive and serious about whatever sport they are playing naturally if they love it enough.

i'm glad i found hockey later in life, its always been fun and i love the game more than any sport i've ever played.

Hockey politics are really funny. I mean there is independent evaluations so if your kid really is that good he or she will get ranked accordingly, but it's around the edges where it seems to make a difference. In my kids club I've been in it for 5 years, do a bunch of on-ice volunteering and coaches seem to like my kids so if anything I'm getting the benefit of the doubt, but what's crazy is half the time it has nothing to do with the kids - it's about the parents! One mom doesn't want another dad to be a part of the same team, or two mom friends try to make sure their kids wind up on the same team so that the moms can hang out together.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

Hockey politics are really funny. I mean there is independent evaluations so if your kid really is that good he or she will get ranked accordingly, but it's around the edges where it seems to make a difference. In my kids club I've been in it for 5 years, do a bunch of on-ice volunteering and coaches seem to like my kids so if anything I'm getting the benefit of the doubt, but what's crazy is half the time it has nothing to do with the kids - it's about the parents! One mom doesn't want another dad to be a part of the same team, or two mom friends try to make sure their kids wind up on the same team so that the moms can hang out together.

its all weird man. i specifically remember one year for little league a couple of the repeat offenders completely changed how the "draft" worked because it would benefit themselves. they would pick and choose when to enforce rules, my parents coached one year and i think i was maybe 10-11 so really not that old to be ultra competitive, and they gave everyone a chance to play a position they wanted because it was fun. one game my dad forgot to put someone in and they suspended him for it yet they could work the draft in their favor and load up their team.

 

[ChuckLefley]

For my thoughts go back and read my posts earlier as nothing has changed. Still a dad trying to push his kids rather than let them enjoy it and have it come to them.

When it comes to tryouts and politics, it’s a fools game to think any tryouts are unaffected by politics.

 

[Yukon Joe]

For my thoughts go back and read my posts earlier as nothing has changed. Still a dad trying to push his kids rather than let them enjoy it and have it come to them.

When it comes to tryouts and politics, it’s a fools game to think any tryouts are unaffected by politics.

I went back and read your earlier posts. I think maybe you misunderstand why kind of evaluation we're talking about. We run the kids through a series of 4 drills: forward skate, backwards skate, weave with puck, forwards/backwards transition. We time them. The problem is there's nothing "fun" about these - this isn't a hockey game.

Let me give you an example. I volunteered many hours running these drills. In particular when talking about the U9s, when left to their own they all want to skate hard and then glide the rest of the way (or even worse, the ones who stop at the end gate). It was a struggle to get them to skate hard all the way. It has nothing to do with how much fun they are having - we just want to get an accurate time from each kid that best represents their ability to skate - and not just their ability to understand the drill.

I was worried about my 2013 kid, doing this formal evaluation for the first time. I wanted to make sure he tried his best so we get an accurate testing of his abilities. He tried his best and I'm proud of him. The fact that he was all-in-all kind of slow doesn't matter

 

[krown]

My son and I played together for the first time this last year. Great experience. Probably the most fun he had playing hockey in a years.

This is what I'm hoping for eventually!

 

[ChuckLefley]

I went back and read your earlier posts. I think maybe you misunderstand why kind of evaluation we're talking about. We run the kids through a series of 4 drills: forward skate, backwards skate, weave with puck, forwards/backwards transition. We time them. The problem is there's nothing "fun" about these - this isn't a hockey game.

Let me give you an example. I volunteered many hours running these drills. In particular when talking about the U9s, when left to their own they all want to skate hard and then glide the rest of the way (or even worse, the ones who stop at the end gate). It was a struggle to get them to skate hard all the way. It has nothing to do with how much fun they are having - we just want to get an accurate time from each kid that best represents their ability to skate - and not just their ability to understand the drill.

I was worried about my 2013 kid, doing this formal evaluation for the first time. I wanted to make sure he tried his best so we get an accurate testing of his abilities. He tried his best and I'm proud of him. The fact that he was all-in-all kind of slow doesn't matter

What does the kind of evaluation have to do with someone desperate to get their kid to try their best? Someone so desperate that he got other parents to rent ice so they could practice the tryout drills. Someone trying to get anyone who doesn’t agree with him to change their mind instead of listening.

these are little kids, if they really want it they will figure it out on their own. As I said previously, most kids whose parents try to make them see how hard they need to try at tryouts or how important tryouts are, end up quitting long before tryouts really become important.

 

[Yukon Joe]

What does the kind of evaluation have to do with someone desperate to get their kid to try their best? Someone so desperate that he got other parents to rent ice so they could practice the tryout drills. Someone trying to get anyone who doesn’t agree with him to change their mind instead of listening.

these are little kids, if they really want it they will figure it out on their own. As I said previously, most kids whose parents try to make them see how hard they need to try at tryouts or how important tryouts are, end up quitting long before tryouts really become important.

'Just throw the kid in the pool - they'll figure out how to swim on their own' is not a parenting philosophy I agree with. You see it differently - c'est la vie.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

What does the kind of evaluation have to do with someone desperate to get their kid to try their best? Someone so desperate that he got other parents to rent ice so they could practice the tryout drills. Someone trying to get anyone who doesn’t agree with him to change their mind instead of listening.

these are little kids, if they really want it they will figure it out on their own. As I said previously, most kids whose parents try to make them see how hard they need to try at tryouts or how important tryouts are, end up quitting long before tryouts really become important.

'Just throw the kid in the pool - they'll figure out how to swim on their own' is not a parenting philosophy I agree with. You see it differently - c'est la vie.

I can see both of these sides. I'm more like a ChuckLefley here. I have just gone laissez-faire all the way. But hardly anybody around me does. And ultimately my kids won't go anywhere in hockey. To various degrees they seemed to want to... but it does set them back when they don't understand what is involved in accomplishing that at early ages. And as a parent you do understand it a little better. So even if they do figure it out when they are older, while it's not impossible to make up the ground, it definitely does create a challenge, and sometimes an outright barrier. That's just how the hockey system works. Most hockey parents see that and try to adjust for it like Yukon Joe. I don't see a problem with that. It all ends up in the same place at the end though.

Now, I have also learned that I don't WANT to pay for hockey for the younger ones anyway, since even when they eventually figure it out and go hard, it STILL isn't going to go anywhere. So I'm very happy to just let them figure it out or not on their own. Because any lack of figuring it out just benefits me in the long run. I'm going to save money if they don't figure it out. That's a win afaic.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I can see both of these sides. I'm more like a ChuckLefley here. I have just gone laissez-faire all the way. But hardly anybody around me does. And ultimately my kids won't go anywhere in hockey. To various degrees they seemed to want to... but it does set them back when they don't understand what is involved in accomplishing that at early ages. And as a parent you do understand it a little better. So even if they do figure it out when they are older, while it's not impossible to make up the ground, it definitely does create a challenge, and sometimes an outright barrier. That's just how the hockey system works. Most hockey parents see that and try to adjust for it like Yukon Joe. I don't see a problem with that. It all ends up in the same place at the end though.

Minor hockey can be difficult and confusing to navigate even for an adult. Just for an example I put all of my kids through skating lessons before putting them into hockey. Only afterwards I realized that those very early hockey sessions basically are just skating lessons. Or since my oldest made Tier 1, I was looking into AA hockey for next year (if my kid wants to try out) because I have no idea how any of that works.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Minor hockey can be difficult and confusing to navigate even for an adult. Just for an example I put all of my kids through skating lessons before putting them into hockey. Only afterwards I realized that those very early hockey sessions basically are just skating lessons. Or since my oldest made Tier 1, I was looking into AA hockey for next year (if my kid wants to try out) because I have no idea how any of that works.

And that's another important point for sure... I had the benefit of a 4-year gap between my oldest and then my next pair coming along. So I got to learn the ropes a little bit the first time around, and I was far more relaxed about it all with the second two. Of course, individual situations vary widely too.

My current state of "nothing matters, just have fun" might be something I would have nodded along to and then watched everybody else behave differently than all around me the first time, and then I would have felt a lot of trepidation about trying to follow that mantra. Now I can much more easily follow it, because I've lived it and believe it in my bones, and what everybody else is doing is really not a distraction anymore.

 

[krown]

I'm experiencing both ends of the minor hockey parent life now. I have a 12 year old who is strictly house league, and he will be there until his minor hockey career is over. He likes playing, but doesn't LOVE playing. He loves hanging out in the dressing room, going on tournaments and all the other stuff that goes along with hockey. He skated a a handful of times over the summer and did some shooting clinics (he REALLY wants to be able to raise the puck consistently) but nothing serious.

I also have a 10 year old who is hoping to make his A1 team this year. He's spent all summer on development and has come a LONG way since the end of last season. He has looked good so far in tryouts, and if he continues to do what he's been doing I think he'll make it.

Now, obviously, I've spend alot more $ on the younger one's hockey. However, I have also spent money on my older son who will MAYBE get 1 or 2 goals this season. Why do I spend money on his power skating or shooting? I do it because I want to put him in the best position to succeed and build his confidence on the ice. Even though he will be playing house league, I want him to have enough confidence when on it, and maybe build a LOVE for the game to want to continue playing into beer league. Right now at 12 he can do things I can't do on the ice (and I'm his coach this year) without even trying, and he's only learned to skate 3 years ago.

 

[Slats432]

I think there is totally a balance between Joe's and Chuck's philosophy. I started with a 7 year old that tried to quit during his first evaluation. He couldn't skate at all. He played the lowest tier of novice in Edmonton. He worked hard for a few years and by junior high we discussed hockey academy. We involved him in the discussion in everything he wanted to do in hockey/sport. He decided to go into academy, then continue towards Bantam AA, then Minor Midget and Midget AAA, and signed to play Junior A in SJHL. He was poised to work towards an NCAA scholarship, and in his first year of junior decided that he didn't want to be away from home and left the game to go to university. Without encouragement, financial commitment and physical commitment you don't go far. We encouraged off season training to reach goals. Going to a gym five days a week 3 hours a day when you are 14-15-16 doesn't happen without a bit of mutual understanding of what it takes to meet goals.

But do you think a 7 year old is qualified to decide whether or not they take skating lessons? No, we encourage and suggest as parents to put them in the best positions to succeed. From start to finish it was over $100K in the journey. None of which he or us, his parents regret. I will also suggest that his 4.0 GPA in first year of university can also be correlated to a decade of "Your success in life will be a direct result of your commitment and hard work." through hockey. And he is a hell of a beer leaguer now at 18 years old.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think there is totally a balance between Joe's and Chuck's philosophy. I started with a 7 year old that tried to quit during his first evaluation. He couldn't skate at all. He played the lowest tier of novice in Edmonton. He worked hard for a few years and by junior high we discussed hockey academy. We involved him in the discussion in everything he wanted to do in hockey/sport. He decided to go into academy, then continue towards Bantam AA, then Minor Midget and Midget AAA, and signed to play Junior A in SJHL. He was poised to work towards an NCAA scholarship, and in his first year of junior decided that he didn't want to be away from home and left the game to go to university. Without encouragement, financial commitment and physical commitment you don't go far. We encouraged off season training to reach goals. Going to a gym five days a week 3 hours a day when you are 14-15-16 doesn't happen without a bit of mutual understanding of what it takes to meet goals.

But do you think a 7 year old is qualified to decide whether or not they take skating lessons? No, we encourage and suggest as parents to put them in the best positions to succeed. From start to finish it was over $100K in the journey. None of which he or us, his parents regret. I will also suggest that his 4.0 GPA in first year of university can also be correlated to a decade of "Your success in life will be a direct result of your commitment and hard work." through hockey. And he is a hell of a beer leaguer now at 18 years old.

Cool story slats! Always nice to hear that how you play at age 7 does not define a kid as a player.

If you don't mind me asking (since I'm also in Edmonton) what was his experience in the hockey academy like?

 

[Slats432]

Cool story slats! Always nice to hear that how you play at age 7 does not define a kid as a player.

If you don't mind me asking (since I'm also in Edmonton) what was his experience in the hockey academy like?

He played club and went to school academy (Mount Carmel, St. FX) . He didn't go to the hockey academies.

There are two thought process to places like NAX and OHA. They believe that it gives an advantage to higher levels. It does but only to the top few kids. Players like Tyler Benson etc would go there and the other players pay high fees to play with those top kids. When my son was at Junior camps at 15-17, there was no discernible difference between Academy (NAX/OHA) and Club (SSAC/CAC/KC/MLAC). That said it can't hurt to play with some of the best kids in the age group. That is at a cost. ($20-30K per season)

If my kid was top 5 in the city at his age group in Pee Wee, I might have considered NAX for first or 2nd year Bantam.

 

[Yukon Joe]

He played club and went to school academy (Mount Carmel, St. FX) . He didn't go to the hockey academies.

There are two thought process to places like NAX and OHA. They believe that it gives an advantage to higher levels. It does but only to the top few kids. Players like Tyler Benson etc would go there and the other players pay high fees to play with those top kids. When my son was at Junior camps at 15-17, there was no discernible difference between Academy (NAX/OHA) and Club (SSAC/CAC/KC/MLAC). That said it can't hurt to play with some of the best kids in the age group. That is at a cost. ($20-30K per season)

If my kid was top 5 in the city at his age group in Pee Wee, I might have considered NAX for first or 2nd year Bantam.

Thanks for the info. There was some talk in our house about checking out Donnan/Vimy Ridge, but the couple kids on my son's hockey club team that attended there don't seem to be progressing any more than any of the other kids. I really hope NAX never gets looked at as it's terribly expensive.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

These are all good discussion points. I think it's also important to "never be judgemental" about what somebody else is doing with their kids. You REALLY don't know them, their kid, their circumstances, or anything at all about what went into how they chose to approach things. (Ok, there are some extreme outlier cases bordering on child abuse out there, but I'm not talking about those). If somebody else is doing more or less than you do with their kid, that's none of your business. You do you.

 

[ChuckLefley]

'Just throw the kid in the pool - they'll figure out how to swim on their own' is not a parenting philosophy I agree with. You see it differently - c'est la vie.

Huge difference between trying to help your child not die and trying to make your child live up to your hockey dreams.

I said it in my first post in this thread, people like you are what’s wrong with youth sports. I see this all the time in my coaching and the kids end up either quitting the sport or hating the parent. But, hey you’re just doing what’s best for the kid.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I'm still surprised by this phenomenon in parenting - someone who has never even met me or my kid is absolutely 100% convinced that what I'm doing as a parent is wrong.

 

[krown]

I don't renting the ice has anything to do with kids "trying their best". It's putting them in a position to succeed when tryouts do happen. ALL kids get nervous during tryouts, and if they say they aren't are probably lying. Being judged on a small sample size in a short time span is never easy. Add in the fact these kids are as young as 9 years old means chances are no kid every truly shows off their entire skillset/work ethic. If a parent can build some familiarity by going through the drills before hand with their kid, this would mean one less thing the kid has to worry about. Instead of trying to figure out the best way to perform well at a particular drill (or even worse, how to DO the drill), they already know what do and they just have to focus on effort and execution.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I don't renting the ice has anything to do with kids "trying their best". It's putting them in a position to succeed when tryouts do happen. ALL kids get nervous during tryouts, and if they say they aren't are probably lying. Being judged on a small sample size in a short time span is never easy. Add in the fact these kids are as young as 9 years old means chances are no kid every truly shows off their entire skillset/work ethic. If a parent can build some familiarity by going through the drills before hand with their kid, this would mean one less thing the kid has to worry about. Instead of trying to figure out the best way to perform well at a particular drill (or even worse, how to DO the drill), they already know what do and they just have to focus on effort and execution.

As young as 9? My 6 year old had to do these drills (turns 7 next month).

So I headcoached Initiation last year. One of my kids (2013 birth year) was an absolute superstar - both his parents played very high level hockey. I worried about opposing team goalies since we weren't using goalie equipment and this kid could shoot hard.

Anyways, I was on the ice when this kid was doing his tryouts. I just said hi, asked him how his summer went, explained the drill and predictably he did amazingly well, making Tier 1 in his first year.

But anyways, afterwards the dad goes and emails me to thank me for talking to his son. It really helped calm him down and put him at ease, apparently. So yeah, even an absolute superstar who had more hockey talent at age 6 than I'll ever have, gets nervous during evaluations.

 

[ChuckLefley]

I'm still surprised by this phenomenon in parenting - someone who has never even met me or my kid is absolutely 100% convinced that what I'm doing as a parent is wrong.

You’ve said plenty here about what you are doing to your kids and come up with enough excuses to make me, a former college coach know what you are doing wrong. But people like you are always convinced they are doing the right things for their kid and want the kid wants. Delusional.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You’ve said plenty here about what you are doing to your kids and come up with enough excuses to make me, a former college coach know what you are doing wrong. But people like you are always convinced they are doing the right things for their kid and want the kid wants. Delusional.

Cool. I've gone from "people like you are what’s wrong with youth sports" to "Delusional". Come one, I'm sure you're not done here - insult me some more! Surely you can come up with something worse! Be creative!

My own 2013 kid wound up in the absolute bottom tier after evaluations. That's fine by me! He knew the drills, he gave it his all, and that's where he belongs according to his skills. I have no illusions about any of my kids having big pro hockey careers. I just want them to have fun playing a game I (and hopefully they) love. I'm looking forward to assistant coaching him and his new team this year.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Cool. I've gone from "people like you are what’s wrong with youth sports" to "Delusional". Come one, I'm sure you're not done here - insult me some more! Surely you can come up with something worse! Be creative!

My own 2013 kid wound up in the absolute bottom tier after evaluations. That's fine by me! He knew the drills, he gave it his all, and that's where he belongs according to his skills. I have no illusions about any of my kids having big pro hockey careers. I just want them to have fun playing a game I (and hopefully they) love. I'm looking forward to assistant coaching him and his new team this year.

I think my favorite partS of your excuses are when you attack me and how you keep moving the goalposts.

Keep telling yourself that feeling the need to motivate your kids for novice hockey makes you a great dad instead of the next John O’Sullivan.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm still surprised by this phenomenon in parenting - someone who has never even met me or my kid is absolutely 100% convinced that what I'm doing as a parent is wrong.

I don’t see anything wrong with what you are doing.

You know your kids best, no one else, and all you can do from there is use your best judgement.

My daughter started skating at four and playing hockey at six, and she loved playing and such and I worked with her a lot to help her, but never pushed her to do extra off ice stuff.

That was my philosophy... keep it fun. When I was teaching her stuff, I turned a lot of it into games that kept her enjoying it.

A travel girls coach approached us last summer after we came off the ice for stick time and wanted to know more about my daughter... if she was interested in playing travel hockey the following season, etc.

That moment there is what changed everything for her... she realized she had some talent, a coach noticed her and she became self motivated to make travel this past spring.

She did tons of her own training on the synthetic ice we got her as a gift... begged for me to get her on the ice more to work on stuff... and all her hard work paid off as she made a tier 3 U10 all boys travel and the girls 12u.. which is an impressive accomplishment for a nine year old I told her.

So kids need self motivation to take the next step, but if I wasn’t helping her the five years prior, she wouldn’t have been in that position, right?

It’s all a balancing act and letting the kid figure out where he/she wants to go with it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think my favorite partS of your excuses are when you attack me and how you keep moving the goalposts.

Keep telling yourself that feeling the need to motivate your kids for novice hockey makes you a great dad instead of the next John O’Sullivan.

See, I knew you could come up with a creative insult. John O'Sullivan - I had to look that one up. Ah yes, I remember hearing the story, but forgot the name. Yes, the hockey dad so convinced his kid was going to make the NHL he was repeatedly physically and emotionally abusive. Yup, that definitely sounds like me!

Chuck, if you go through my posts I think you'll see I've never said anything about you. I don't know you.