Minor hockey tryouts (was: How to motivate a novice (or any) player for tryouts?)

[jw2]

First of all, as I made clear, this wasn’t about you.

Second of all, these are little kids. Parents should not be looking to motivate them to achieve what they want them to achieve. If a kid wants to dog it at tryouts when they are 8, that’s fine. If they don’t like the team they get put on then they have learned a lesson. If a parent is constantly trying to motivate a small child than the kid will never learn how to be self-motivated. I am a teacher and a coach and I see this all the time. The kids whose parents allowed them to fail when they didn’t put in the effort are always more successful in ten long run than the kids whose parent always push them. My son did terrible on the first day of tryouts. On the second day he looked around and saw who the other kids were in his tryout slot, realized he was in the bottom group and proceeded to be the best player on the the ice, by a large margin, during that time slot. He stepped up during the third night and got put a level higher than I expected and was one of the bottom kids on his team. During the season he got shifted to D and worked his butt off to do a good job, than got shifted back to forward and did a great job. I never had to say a word to him to motivate him. Last week I caught him doing push-ups in his room and, when I asked him why he was doing them, he said he wanted to be stronger next season. He motivates himself and will be successful in life because of that.

That's short-sighted. Not all kids that fail try, or want to try, again, while almost every "successful" kid has failed at something, at one time.
For me, I'd much rather spend a few minutes getting a 6, 7 8 year old kid to understand the importance of the try-out/evaluation than explain to him why he's not playing with his friends, or on the select team, (or in your case tell him he sucks) for a year.

 

[ChuckLefley]

That's short-sighted. Not all kids that fail try, or want to try, again, while almost every "successful" kid has failed at something, at one time.
For me, I'd much rather spend a few minutes getting a 6, 7 8 year old kid to understand the importance of the try-out/evaluation than explain to him why he's not playing with his friends, or on the select team, (or in your case tell him he sucks) for a year.

No, it’s short sighted to think that spending time trying to get your kid to understand the “importance” of a try-out is no big deal. The fact is that if you need to tell your kid that the tryout is important than you are doing it for yourself...no matter what you say and you are teaching the child that daddy will tell you when to try and when to not try. If a kid fails and decides to not try again, than that is just a sign that their heart was never really into it and it was just a matter of time before they found a reason to quit. As I have said, I have seen it in both education and sports. At the ages you mention, those tryouts are only as important as your kid thinks they are. Many a great pro athlete will tell stories of making a low team when they were young or just playing for fun.

You guys can argue all you want, but a parent “motivating” a young child for a tryout is 100% about the parent, not the kid.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Some of this discussion doesn't fit very well with some of my past experience. My kid at 8 was pretty oblivious to the process. And also not very self-aware. Yes, he wanted to play hockey. Yes, he wanted to make teams. But I don't think he was very well equipped to understand how to do it. In CL's example, I can't imagine my kid ever having been able to look around himself, recognize he was in a lower tryout grouping, and then recognize he had to push himself harder to get back into a higher grouping. Unless it was a straight race against other players from one end of the ice to the other, I don't think at that age he had the capacity to judge how he was performing relative to his competition. He could come off the ice thinking he did great in his worst showing, or terrible in his best showing, and it would not surprise me one bit that his impressions were completely opposite to what an evaluator might have seen. There's no way he'd know what he needed to work on, or if he needed to work harder to achieve his goals.

I push him to clean his room or do his homework or eat his vegetables too. Some of those things are for his own good to help him eventually realize success in his life - in those cases those are things which are definitely not on his priority list now. Maybe they never will be. But I like to think they'll help him. At least with hockey, I know he actually does want to do it - but still (at least when he was younger) had no clue how to. It's not wrong to give them some guidance and help push them in directions that your greater experience allows you to see will help the child accomplish their goals.

Maybe the disconnect is the matter of degree involved. Obviously if you live in the world of minor hockey you see no shortage of examples where the "push" is more than mere guidance, more sustained, and does hit the level of actually being detrimental to the child's development. As the kids get older they figure it out and you'll never need to help motivate them again. But at 8? I dunno, my experience is that I can see that as an age where a kid can still benefit from some help if you don't overdo it. But then my kids were also basically starting skating and hockey later than most. Maybe if your kid was playing IP and skating from 4 like some, they have a different level of awareness too. 8 was still very early days for us.

 

[MartinS82]

Oh no you have it right - I care about it, my son doesn't.

I don't know if that's the right attitude to have, so I don't put any pressure on him that he has to do well. I just kind of stew quietly in the stands when I see him not competing.

I will motivate my sons by giving them "tasks" during the game. Rather then reward goals/assists I like to reward the processes. So pick out specific behaviours and really have him focus on those (ie - win 5 board battles, force 3 turnovers with aggressive forchecking, etc). If you just say "compete" he may not understand what that means.

 

[Slats432]

I somewhat agree with Chuck but not totally. There is a difference between motivation and getting a child to understand the necessity to self motivate. I am an achiever. My wife is very competitive. We encourage goals, effort, empathy, teamwork, support, respect and having fun. (Emphasis on the fun). We would ask our novice and atom son, what his goals were. "To play the best hockey I can."

Sometimes you let them have a rough game. But if you see lack of effort, then you point it out. Life isn't about letting a kid decide right and wrong. It is about teaching them about actions and consequences. Even now at 17 turning 18 I ask my boy every year if he was still into putting in the effort in hockey, that he would always have that choice. But as a family we always say that it is important to be the best you can at whatever you do. We motivate him to study, to work hard at his part time job, to keep his car clean, to be the most kind and respectful person he can be. Because of that he succeeds at almost everything he does. It isn't pressure to succeed that is important. It is expectation of effort. Respect the process and the result is the result without regret.

We live in a society that is about participation ribbon. Personally, I say f*** that. My kid doesn't dog it. And whether he is 5 or 50, he owes it to himself to be the best he can be at whatever he does.

 

[ChuckLefley]

I somewhat agree with Chuck but not totally. There is a difference between motivation and getting a child to understand the necessity to self motivate. I am an achiever. My wife is very competitive. We encourage goals, effort, empathy, teamwork, support, respect and having fun. (Emphasis on the fun). We would ask our novice and atom son, what his goals were. "To play the best hockey I can."

Sometimes you let them have a rough game. But if you see lack of effort, then you point it out. Life isn't about letting a kid decide right and wrong. It is about teaching them about actions and consequences. Even now at 17 turning 18 I ask my boy every year if he was still into putting in the effort in hockey, that he would always have that choice. But as a family we always say that it is important to be the best you can at whatever you do. We motivate him to study, to work hard at his part time job, to keep his car clean, to be the most kind and respectful person he can be. Because of that he succeeds at almost everything he does. It isn't pressure to succeed that is important. It is expectation of effort. Respect the process and the result is the result without regret.

We live in a society that is about participation ribbon. Personally, I say **** that. My kid doesn't dog it. And whether he is 5 or 50, he owes it to himself to be the best he can be at whatever he does.

My point was more about age than about motivation. At the younger ages it should be 100% about the kid having fun. If it means he coasts, than so be it. If he really wants to achieve something than he will start to figure it out. It is extremely rare to see a kid who has been “motivated” by dad at such a young age, do anything more than end up not wanting to play because it’s not fun. I’ve coached everything from six year olds through college and I have seen it over and over.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Okay, so I'll bump this thread because it's this time of year again - tryouts start next Monday!

So, for my oldest kid (whom this thread was initially about) motivation is no longer a concern as he is moving into Atom (2010 birth year). He knows what tryouts are for, why it is important to try your best. Not worried about him - he'll be placed appropriately.

My middle kid (2012 birth year) though has his first meaningful tryouts. He's actually a pretty good skater, but at times an indifferent hockey player (he likes to play defence, and his idea of playing defence is to stand in front of the goalie). I'm sure we he's introduced to slightly more structured hockey this year that'll improve though.

My youngest (2013 birth year) also has tryouts (just simple forwards and backwards skating), although not this weekend. I'm really not sure why, as the purpose is to create balanced, not tiered, teams, and no one keeps score anyways in his level's cross-ice games.

But here's my question for the masses: not my initial idea, but we've gone in with 4 other families and rented an hour of ice time all to ourselves, all with the express purpose of practicing the try-out drills. These are for 5 Atom-level kids, together with some younger siblings. The cost is actually quite reasonable, at $40 per family.

Is this a genius move, helping my kids be the best they can be? Is it a harmless waste of $40 - once we're done practicing we'll just play around on the open ice for the rest of our hour? Or heck is trying to game the system like this likely to backfire? I'm slightly worried about my middle kid being placed in a tier higher than his actual abilities, which might just lead to a no-fun year for him. And for my oldest: he was on the cusp of being in Tier 1 last year, but was placed in Tier 2. But by all accounts Tier 1 was a mess with overly-competitive parents and coaches, whereas the kids (and parents) had an absolute blast in Tier 2.

 

[I am toxic]

Okay, so I'll bump this thread because it's this time of year again - tryouts start next Monday!

So, for my oldest kid (whom this thread was initially about) motivation is no longer a concern as he is moving into Atom (2010 birth year). He knows what tryouts are for, why it is important to try your best. Not worried about him - he'll be placed appropriately.

My middle kid (2012 birth year) though has his first meaningful tryouts. He's actually a pretty good skater, but at times an indifferent hockey player (he likes to play defence, and his idea of playing defence is to stand in front of the goalie). I'm sure we he's introduced to slightly more structured hockey this year that'll improve though.

My youngest (2013 birth year) also has tryouts (just simple forwards and backwards skating), although not this weekend. I'm really not sure why, as the purpose is to create balanced, not tiered, teams, and no one keeps score anyways in his level's cross-ice games.

But here's my question for the masses: not my initial idea, but we've gone in with 4 other families and rented an hour of ice time all to ourselves, all with the express purpose of practicing the try-out drills. These are for 5 Atom-level kids, together with some younger siblings. The cost is actually quite reasonable, at $40 per family.

Is this a genius move, helping my kids be the best they can be? Is it a harmless waste of $40 - once we're done practicing we'll just play around on the open ice for the rest of our hour? Or heck is trying to game the system like this likely to backfire? I'm slightly worried about my middle kid being placed in a tier higher than his actual abilities, which might just lead to a no-fun year for him. And for my oldest: he was on the cusp of being in Tier 1 last year, but was placed in Tier 2. But by all accounts Tier 1 was a mess with overly-competitive parents and coaches, whereas the kids (and parents) had an absolute blast in Tier 2.

Tier 2 is often a great place to land, as Tier 1 will likely have most of the . . . overly committed . . . parents.

However, the most important thing will be landing on a team that suits their development, regardless of tier. That is what will be the most fun. Make the best of whatever situation your kids land in.

As for renting the ice and preparing for the try out drills, I would recommend it. I did the same 4 years ago with ohsix and a couple others for combine testing. Why? Odds are it will not make any difference, but it begins the process of strategic planning and models the concept of preparation. Tangibly, there are usually a few kids on any roster that are on the "bubble". Often there is nothing to choose between who makes the team and who is cut. I have seen instances where scores from scrimmages were even, and scores from skills/combine testing impacted the decision. If your child ends up on a team that is beyond the level of their ability, they can (at least in my Association) self-release to the lower team. But if they land on a team below their ability, then the only way they can move up is if a spot opens up by way of another self-releasing, season ending injury, or leaving. This has only happened once in my experience - self-release is in your control, moving up is not.

Keep in mind that I am a believer in challenging oneself beyond their abilities. I believe that kids are capable of amazing development, and ohsix is fiercely competitive so if he is on a team where he is weaker, he still gives it everything he's got, and as a result he uusually ends up on PK1 and PP2. If he is stronger, he competes to be the first choice of affiliate for the team above, and the cycle continues. It's in his nature, whether it is piano festivals, Chinese exams, competitive swimming, ski racing etc.

On the other hand, we have friends where their kids are content to play hockey at a less intense level. And they have great fun and get great life lessons from that as well. So prepare your kids for their first tryouts as best you can, but then when it is the next year's tryouts lay out the options of how much they want to prepare (and the likely consequences) and let them choose how much to pursue it.

I have the good fortune to get to know some NHL'ers quite well, and got the chance to spend some time with one of the dads of a former player. Among the many fascinating stories he told, the one about hockey that stands out the most was that people would go to him for advice on getting their kids into the NHL. He told them basically don't do anything other than support what the kid wants. His kid got to the NHL because his kid wanted to put in the work to get there. I think it applies to all levels of hockey.

 

[Huck Cheever]

Make hockey enjoyable for him away from the rink imo. I've seen parents be hard on their kids at novice and atom which made them burn out by peewee.

Don't have expectations at this age, this is where they should be finding love for the game and not trying to move up tiers.... lol it's NOVICE man

 

[Huck Cheever]

That's short-sighted. Not all kids that fail try, or want to try, again, while almost every "successful" kid has failed at something, at one time.
For me, I'd much rather spend a few minutes getting a 6, 7 8 year old kid to understand the importance of the try-out/evaluation than explain to him why he's not playing with his friends, or on the select team, (or in your case tell him he sucks) for a year.

Good way to make his hockey experience about YOU, man...

I feel sorry for your child if you actually talk to him like this....

 

[jw2]

Good way to make his hockey experience about YOU, man...

I feel sorry for your child if you actually talk to him like this....

For explaining a situation to him? Different coaches, different drills? Young kids are easily confused, and can become very hesitant in unfamiliar situations. He/she turns and says "I dont want to do it", fine. Not an issue. But I'll always explain a situation to kids so they can be more prepared.

 

[Huck Cheever]

For explaining a situation to him? Different coaches, different drills? Young kids are easily confused, and can become very hesitant in unfamiliar situations. He/she turns and says "I dont want to do it", fine. Not an issue. But I'll always explain a situation to kids so they can be more prepared.

You've talked about how you can move him up in tiers and the child is in Novice. I've been around this game a long time to see even the best atom players don't turn out to be the best. The best players in bantam and midget are the ones that love the game, not who were tiered early on.

Instead of teaching him the importance of try outs in novice why don't you teach him the importance of just loving the game and having fun?

Must be a status thing for you to have a kid tier'd early on. You'll realize at bantam that it doesn't matter who made tier1 even in atoms. You'll see, I've been around a long time. In no time you'll ruin this kids minor hockey experience since you're making it all about yourself.

 

[jw2]

I don’t care about bantam hockey. My kid said HE wanted to play games, and wanted to play on a team. It’s more FUN for him. I explained the process. I didn’t set him up with a personal trainer and make him train 7 days a week at 4:30am.

What’s NOT fun about hockey is other parents telling my kid what he likes, or should like to do.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Ah, the pitfalls of evaluations!

So the practice ice time went well. The drills were confusing, so having several goes at them did help. When it came time for the official evaluations, stage 1 is 100% based on your time in 4 skating drills. When it came time for the hardest drill - weaving through some cones with a puck - my oldest kid did great, but at the end sailed beside the gate, not through it. One of the volunteers noticed and waved his hand to set off the sensor, but probably cost him a second or two. But that's all she wrote - only one try per drill.

Which may have made all the difference, as he just narrowly missed the cutoff to move on to the rest of Tier 1 evaluations. And as I understand it Tier 2 is made up of the kids who are part of Tier 1 evaluations, but don't make it. Ah well, I know he'll still have fun in T3 or T4 (it goes all the way to T7).

 

[I am toxic]

Ah, the pitfalls of evaluations!

So the practice ice time went well. The drills were confusing, so having several goes at them did help. When it came time for the official evaluations, stage 1 is 100% based on your time in 4 skating drills. When it came time for the hardest drill - weaving through some cones with a puck - my oldest kid did great, but at the end sailed beside the gate, not through it. One of the volunteers noticed and waved his hand to set off the sensor, but probably cost him a second or two. But that's all she wrote - only one try per drill.

Which may have made all the difference, as he just narrowly missed the cutoff to move on to the rest of Tier 1 evaluations. And as I understand it Tier 2 is made up of the kids who are part of Tier 1 evaluations, but don't make it. Ah well, I know he'll still have fun in T3 or T4 (it goes all the way to T7).

Not a bad situation to be one of the strongest in T3/T4.

Also, things can always change. T2 team will need affiliates. Affiliates likely will be able to practice sometimes with them. Kids in T1 or T2 could leave, opening up a spot.

And T3/T4 could be better development for some kids. More ice time, more time with the puck etc.

 

[TomP24684]

The child's success determines your affection. That is how you motivate.

No, but for real.

Tim Hortons. Kids these days are conditioned to be addicted to bacon. It’s in everything. You keep em on a rewards based diets of Hortons bacon treats based on effort and results and you got a motivated kiddo.

 

[NewDef]

Okay, this if my way, for what it's worth.

One thing I try to explain to my son is if he wants to receive good passes and make nice plays, he has to play with the better players and for this, he must show that he's worthy of being amongst them.
Now, know that I do not judge the new/unskilled players badly, just that IF this is what he wants and wants to play UP, he needs to show UP.

Actually, I LOVE to coach the youngest, not sure, not motivated, unskilled ones. It's a challenge, it's rewarding to see them grow in liking the game. God do they learn fast when they do get motivated.
Pushing the motivated players with skills is also a lot of fun (Seeing my boy get a pass on the tape and shoot top corner is another level of dad pride, not just coach pride )

Here is how I explain it to my son and some of them unsure players:

1. Enjoy being on the ice. (A minimum of comfort in the skates is required but once this is gained, if he likes the sport, it's all green) (I coach the 2010, 2011 and 2012 now and do a lot of positive reinforcing. A lot of unsure kids kinda grow in liking it because they find a positive environment. One bad coach can scrap that and I'm careful to not be that one. )
2. Make friends, be part of the team. YOU are a hockey player and YOU are a XYX team player. XYZ TEAM GO!
3. Enjoy the game itself. Hockey is beautiful, you dance, fly, slide on the ice. You control the game with a stick. Tic-tac swoosh, yay, red light. (Gosh I'm drooling again.) Do you love the game?
4. Play to succeed (win or lose). To succeed you must compete. You must skate, pass, shoot, block, etc. HARD. The skills must be learned and done with engagement (why 1,2 and 3 first). To be able to maximize on skills one must have complementary players to practice and play with. It's near impossible to shoot on reception if you never get a good pass. It's tough to practice hard pass reception if you never get hard pass on the tape. etc. This is where players that really want to succeed make it happen, not just to have fun, not just to be with friends, but to play the game well, to have the opportunity to be part of great plays, tic-tac-toes, shot on reception, outlet stretch pass etc. It's not free, you must put in the sweat to be part of that group. (Erhh, my son too still need works figuring it out but I've seen some make humongous strides once they get it.)

So, young players can stop at 3 and enjoy the sport a whole lot. But those enjoying success in hockey will push for #4. Motivation is based on the will to have fun and some have fun when they succeed.
This is the key I explained to my son. If you want to play with them, practice at their level or you won't get the slot.

If 4 is not important to the kid, ah well, lets let him have fun and grow at a pace with less stress.
They are no less hockey players, they just might not care enough about it to push hard for it.

Yes, there are kids that think they're good and don't listen. Usually dad is part of the issue. Dads, be real with your kid, make sure they respect the coach by not talking against him with the kid.
If coach says good but not good enough, kid is not bad, coach is not bad, this is just how it is. At 7-8-9, yes, he does have things to learn and practice to do. If he's not with the AA, it's not the coach fault

Well, part vision/philosopy, ends with a slight rant. Still, they're all good kids, it's all fun, some enjoy succeeding at the game more than others and it shows on the ice.
It's okay either way.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I'm a father of three boys, who starting this year all 3 of whom are going to be playing hockey. My oldest boy is going into his second year of Novice hockey. Evaluations are coming up starting next weekend. They consist first of a series of timed skating drills (forward and backward, straight or through cones, with or without the puck, that sort of thing). From there they are initially tiered, then play two exhibition games, after each game individual players can be adjusted up or down.

Being second year, my son had evaluations last year. He absolutely BOMBED his skating drills, by just kind-of dipsy doodling and coasting. I could see it with my own eyes. But when it came time for the exhibition games he shone (since of course playing hockey is way more interesting than doing boring old drills), was bumped up each time, and his final team was probably a good fit for where he was skill-wise.

It's that time of year...

Funny to go back to look at my older posts, where I commented on my oldest kid not really caring about doing well in evaluation drills. Oldest kid is now second year Atom (now U11) and was really competitive and driven to do well. This year with Covid those drills are the only form of evaluation they'll get and teams will be formed with only that information. But he flew through them and I was super proud.

But my younger two were doing practices of those drills - and they were doing exactly this kind of dipsy-doodling I was complaining about from 2017 or 2018! So maybe I should just chill and accept that's what comes from this age of kids.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So oldest kid did make Tier 1 Atom (now U11). Not even sure what that'll mean during a pandemic, but good for him. He was disappointed last year he didn't make Tier 1, set his mind to making it this year, and he did it.

Middle kid though now says he wants to make Tier 1 in Novice (now U9). His evaluation is tomorrow. I honestly don't care what tier any of my kids make it to, but if he's feeling a bit driven so that he tries his hardest during evaluations I'll be proud no matter what the outcome. There's virtually no chance he makes Tier 1 (he's a good, but not great, skater), but if he's motivated and tries his best I'll be super proud.

 

[krown]

YJ, I'm glad you revived this old thread! It's great reading other experiences families are having with tryouts.

This time of year is going to be super interesting for my 2010 who's a goalie. He's been on the ice all summer doing development, and helping out with coaches who need goalies for their drills. Development sessions have been invaluable. The "helping out" sessions have had limited results. The issue is while all the skaters are getting coaching, he's out there with none. I've seen him get lazy and get into bad habits that don't get corrected because there is no coach for him on the ice. So while seeing shots for a goalie is very important, if he doesn't get coaching while seeing these shots, it actually may become detrimental.

As an aside, my son is focused to make A1 this year. He played A3 with mixed success. However he turned a huge corner this summer with his goalie coach who literally rebuilt his stance and positional play, which has led to immediate payoffs. Evaluations start tomorrow, with intersquad games later in the week. First cuts on Friday/Saturday. Nervous times!

 

[Slats432]

Gents, a small reminder. You really don't know what you have in a hockey player until Bantam (U15). When by boy played Pee Wee Tier 6 I didn't know he would be an excellent MAAA defenseman. There should be no nervousness when kids are Novice and Atom. There should be "Try your best. Have fun. No matter what happens the ice cream is going to taste great."

 

[krown]

For me... all roads lead to beer league

 

[Slats432]

For me... all roads lead to beer league

My son and I played together for the first time this last year. Great experience. Probably the most fun he had playing hockey in a years.

Not to say parents shouldn't encourage players to reach for the stars. They should, but it shouldn't take on the stress that so many put on it. Now, if a kid is trying out for Bantam AAA and looking at being a hockey player....yep, stressful.

I know a really good young hockey player that would get yelled at after every game in Atom. By Bantam, he was mentally done and quit hockey soon after. And there are tons of those.

 

[Yukon Joe]

YJ, I'm glad you revived this old thread! It's great reading other experiences families are having with tryouts.

This time of year is going to be super interesting for my 2010 who's a goalie. He's been on the ice all summer doing development, and helping out with coaches who need goalies for their drills. Development sessions have been invaluable. The "helping out" sessions have had limited results. The issue is while all the skaters are getting coaching, he's out there with none. I've seen him get lazy and get into bad habits that don't get corrected because there is no coach for him on the ice. So while seeing shots for a goalie is very important, if he doesn't get coaching while seeing these shots, it actually may become detrimental.

As an aside, my son is focused to make A1 this year. He played A3 with mixed success. However he turned a huge corner this summer with his goalie coach who literally rebuilt his stance and positional play, which has led to immediate payoffs. Evaluations start tomorrow, with intersquad games later in the week. First cuts on Friday/Saturday. Nervous times!

Cool - good luck to your son! It's amazing to see kids development year over year.

My oldest crushed it and did in fact make the Tier 1 team. My 2012 kid actually did fairly good, and improved his tryout times from last year quite dramatically. My 2013 kid, who just a year ago was still skating by only pushing with one foot, put in a perfectly respectable time as well. Neither will sniff Tier 1, but both tried their hardest and I'm proud of them.

Now I'm just hoping they get put on teams with some kids they know (or even better - put on the same team!). Normally they don't build in any preference for siblings, but with Covid bubbles maybe they'll make an exception.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

Gents, a small reminder. You really don't know what you have in a hockey player until Bantam (U15). When by boy played Pee Wee Tier 6 I didn't know he would be an excellent MAAA defenseman. There should be no nervousness when kids are Novice and Atom. There should be "Try your best. Have fun. No matter what happens the ice cream is going to taste great."

personally i did not grow up playing hockey but i did grow up playing baseball from about age 5 to 16. the politics and BS from parents involved in little league completely drew me away from the game and by 14 i knew i was done, now i don't watch baseball and hate the game. no matter the game kids will start to get competitive and serious about whatever sport they are playing naturally if they love it enough.

i'm glad i found hockey later in life, its always been fun and i love the game more than any sport i've ever played.