Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Wabit]

Is it too late for any of them though? Defenders usually takes longer to develope.

2 full/healthy AHL seasons is usually enough to tell if a player is going to be a top-4 d-man. The ones that take longer than that are usually bottom of the roster players.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Is it too late for any of them though? Defenders usually takes longer to develope.

It's not too late, but ideally someone would be showing at least flashes of top 4 level. I don't feel confident any of them will be NHLers as we sit currently.

 

[Wabit]

It's not too late, but ideally someone would be showing at least flashes of top 4 level. I don't feel confident any of them will be NHLers as we sit currently.

I can see both Hunt and ROR being 3rd pair d-men (too soon to tell for Lambos). Neither of them are the complete package (or elite at something) that would put them on the 2nd pair.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I can see both Hunt and ROR being 3rd pair d-men (too soon to tell for Lambos). Neither of them are the complete package (or elite at something) that would put them on the 2nd pair.

It has been surprising that O'Rourke hasn't gotten a cup of coffee stint in the NHL yet.

 

[MNRube]

It's not too late, but ideally someone would be showing at least flashes of top 4 level. I don't feel confident any of them will be NHLers as we sit currently.

I agree with Iowa struggling to develop players, especially D, but I think with these guys it is just a talent issue. Or in Lambos’ case, a decision-making issue. Still a decent chance one of them is a late bloomer and elevates to become a quality NHLer (Soucy or Middleton type contributors)

Just another reason we should really try to snag one of the Top 7 D in this year’s class. Honestly, they all would be excellent additions to the farm.

 

[Wabit]

It has been surprising that O'Rourke hasn't gotten a cup of coffee stint in the NHL yet.

Not to me. Hunt's skillset is more of what MN has needed this year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Curious what level of defender Rossi could pull back in a trade. It is concerning that this organization doesn't really seem capable of developing a defender. All of Lambos, O'Rourke, Hunt, Spacek, Masters, Johansson, etc do not appear close to an NHL top 4. They didn't develop Faber.

Which is weird because that's what could only "develop" for a while.

 

[DANOZ28]

developing D is a concern, thats why i'd lean towards picking a forward in the 1st then D with later picks. i think the last time we developed a D was when the dinosaurs were little!

 

[AKL]

I'm still wondering how much we actually develop players and how much they're either going to make it or not based on their own character and abilities.

I'm also pretty confident that if you raised the draft age to 20-21 like it is in some other sports, you'd find a lot of teams get much better at scouting and developing.

 

[Wabit]

I'm still wondering how much we actually develop players and how much they're either going to make it or not based on their own character and abilities.

I'd say Shaw and Dewar were developed by the team. They completely changed their game from the players they were in the CHL.

Most of the top of the lineup players are really just passing though the AHL. The bottom of the lineup players are the ones that need/get developed in the minors.

 

[AKL]

I'd say Shaw and Dewar were developed by the team. They completely changed their game from the players they were in the CHL.

Most of the top of the lineup players are really just passing though the AHL. The bottom of the lineup players are the ones that need/get developed in the minors.

Sure, but I'm talking about a player like Lambos. He was originally projected to be a top of the lineup player. Before he even got to Iowa his stock was already on the decline. Was that a scouting/drafting error, despite the fact that a majority of people projected him to be better, and didn't consider him a reach? Was it a development issue because he isn't righting the ship since getting to Iowa? Or was he just never really going to be what everyone thought he would be because he lacked whatever ability and character he needed to reach those projections?

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA, the vast majority thought he would be a star, and could make the jump right away. Was that a NYR scouting/drafting/development issue? Was he ruined by going straight to the NHL instead of going back to a CHL league he had outgrown, or was he just never really going to be that player because he didn't have the ability and/or character to reach the projections?

I think in a majority of cases, these players just don't have the makeup to reach their "potential" and fans blame scouting or development because they need something to blame.

Obviously that is the risk associated with drafting 18 year olds, my point is that I think teams have a lot less influence on their careers than some fans think. I don't think the Wild ruined Lambos, I don't think the Rangers ruined Lafreniere, I don't think the Wild ruined Stramel, but I also don't think they can fix Stramel in the way that fans would hope.

I do agree there are certain situations where a guy who's maybe drafted as a skill guy can be told they're going to have to play a more bottom six style game, but after that conversation is had, it goes back to the player to actually have the ability and put in the work to make that adjustment.

 

[BagHead]

Sure, but I'm talking about a player like Lambos. He was originally projected to be a top of the lineup player. Before he even got to Iowa his stock was already on the decline. Was that a scouting/drafting error, despite the fact that a majority of people projected him to be better, and didn't consider him a reach? Was it a development issue because he isn't righting the ship since getting to Iowa? Or was he just never really going to be what everyone thought he would be because he lacked whatever ability and character he needed to reach those projections?

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA, the vast majority thought he would be a star, and could make the jump right away. Was that a NYR scouting/drafting/development issue? Was he ruined by going straight to the NHL instead of going back to a CHL league he had outgrown, or was he just never really going to be that player because he didn't have the ability and/or character to reach the projections?

I think in a majority of cases, these players just don't have the makeup to reach their "potential" and fans blame scouting or development because they need something to blame.

Obviously that is the risk associated with drafting 18 year olds, my point is that I think teams have a lot less influence on their careers than some fans think. I don't think the Wild ruined Lambos, I don't think the Rangers ruined Lafreniere, I don't think the Wild ruined Stramel, but I also don't think they can fix Stramel in the way that fans would hope.

I do agree there are certain situations where a guy who's maybe drafted as a skill guy can be told they're going to have to play a more bottom six style game, but after that conversation is had, it goes back to the player to actually have the ability and put in the work to make that adjustment.

100% agree. I think there are too many factors that go into making a player a star vs. a bust, and most of those factors belong to the player themselves. If anyone was able to figure out just the right mix of attributes and attitudes a player should have, and found a way to reliably test for them, they'd be set for life.

This is sort of why I prefer players who play in pro leagues before the draft vs. junior leagues, as long as I think they're in the same draft tier. I think the pro leagues naturally sort out some (not all) of the players who don't quite have the right mix of attributes. I don't have data to back this up, it's just a hunch.

 

[Wabit]

Sure, but I'm talking about a player like Lambos. He was originally projected to be a top of the lineup player. Before he even got to Iowa his stock was already on the decline. Was that a scouting/drafting error, despite the fact that a majority of people projected him to be better, and didn't consider him a reach? Was it a development issue because he isn't righting the ship since getting to Iowa? Or was he just never really going to be what everyone thought he would be because he lacked whatever ability and character he needed to reach those projections?

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA, the vast majority thought he would be a star, and could make the jump right away. Was that a NYR scouting/drafting/development issue? Was he ruined by going straight to the NHL instead of going back to a CHL league he had outgrown, or was he just never really going to be that player because he didn't have the ability and/or character to reach the projections?

I think in a majority of cases, these players just don't have the makeup to reach their "potential" and fans blame scouting or development because they need something to blame.

Obviously that is the risk associated with drafting 18 year olds, my point is that I think teams have a lot less influence on their careers than some fans think. I don't think the Wild ruined Lambos, I don't think the Rangers ruined Lafreniere, I don't think the Wild ruined Stramel, but I also don't think they can fix Stramel in the way that fans would hope.

I do agree there are certain situations where a guy who's maybe drafted as a skill guy can be told they're going to have to play a more bottom six style game, but after that conversation is had, it goes back to the player to actually have the ability and put in the work to make that adjustment.

Lambos was a lost COVID year draft player. I think not really playing that season kept his stock higher than it should have been. I think that draft year will be redraft will end up nothing close to what happened.

I think there is something with the scouting and development in NYR. Laf (1), Kakko (2), Kravtsov (9), and Lias Andersson (7) were their top picks 4 years in a row and none of them have come close to living up to their pre-draft projections. Really of the last 10 draft classes one player they've drafted has played over 300 NHL games, and 8 others have more than 100 games. Looking at their recent (10 years) draft history they've been bad overall at drafting and/or developing players.

 

[f7ben]

Winless against the top of the central this year in 8 games. Pretty much says it all. In 24 years I don’t believe this team has ever been a real contender. They’ve always just feasted on bottom dwellers.

 

[57special]

Even if our goaltending stays good,and Kaprizov, Boldy, Brodin, Faber, JEE continue to play well, i don't see us going more than 9-5 over the remaining games, which would get us to 92 points or so. Just bad enough to miss the playoffs, but good enough to also miss out on the top 12-13 in the draft, where, IMO, the major talent lies.

It's enough to make you cry.

 

[MK9]

Even if our goaltending stays good,and Kaprizov, Boldy, Brodin, Faber, JEE continue to play well, i don't see us going more than 9-5 over the remaining games, which would get us to 92 points or so. Just bad enough to miss the playoffs, but good enough to also miss out on the top 12-13 in the draft, where, IMO, the major talent lies.

It's enough to make you cry.

Other than shitting the bed in major playoff games or series, that's about as Minnesota sports as it gets though.

 

[57special]

If we go 9-5 in our remaining games we likely finish just on the outside of the playoffs, picking 15-16th in the draft - so, now hope of getting Celebrini in the draft lottery. If we go 5-9, then we end up 11th or 12th - possible chance at Celebrini, and a chance to get an Parekh, Helenius, Yakemchuk, Iginla type player.

I guess you could argue that BG has done a mini tank by trading Dewar and Duhaime(ensuring that Luchinni, Lettieri, and Shaw continue to play), and not trading Merrill and Gaudreau, but Kaprizov and Fleury are screwing it up by playing out of their minds.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Again, unless you wanted Kaprizov, Boldy, Eriksson Ek, Rossi, Faber and Brodin to be "bad" this year, you just have to deal with where we end up in the draft.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Again, unless you wanted Kaprizov, Boldy, Eriksson Ek, Rossi, Faber and Brodin to be "bad" this year, you just have to deal with where we end up in the draft.

Yep. A top 10 pick was never realistic unless major injuries happen.

 

[MNRube]

Guerin built this team with razor-thin margin for error. If you want to blame players, I’d say Gus & Gaudreau were the biggest problems. Both have been flat-out atrocious

 

[Sweetnut]

Guerin built this team with razor-thin margin for error. If you want to blame players, I’d say Gus & Gaudreau were the biggest problems. Both have been flat-out atrocious

I don't think Gus has been that bad to be honest. Not as good as last year for sure, but atrocious is a pretty strong word in his case. Some games he's looked very bad, others he has been really good.

 

[MuckOG]

 

[f7ben]

This forum is so terrible it’s tough to post. Half my replies get lost to page reloads before I finish typing. It’s mind numbing how pathetic it is.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

I don’t know where the Rossi to the wing talk comes from. He looks like at the very least he’ll be a 50 point, PP2 center for a long time here. Khusnutdinov is nowhere even close to Rossi as a player. He shouldn’t have any influence in what we Do wit rossi

 

[f7ben]

I don’t know where the Rossi to the wing talk comes from. He looks like at the very least he’ll be a 50 point, PP2 center for a long time here. Khusnutdinov is nowhere even close to Rossi as a player. He shouldn’t have any influence in what we Do wit rossi

I think Ek and Yurov are what impacts Rossi and Khus looking like a legit 3c option. Although Yurov Rossi might be a fine 1/2 combo also and we could bet a massive haul for Ek.