Dr Jan Itor
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If Vancouver can get what they're hoping for, I'll be very happy for them. I'll be a lot less happy if it's from Minnesota.
Value of: Miller to wild
- Thread starter Wildfan24
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None of them are surefire top-of-the-lineup players, so I would not consider them "A" prospects. All probably peak as middle-sixers or 2nd pairing defensemen.
Marat has top 6 potential and may get there. He's playing in the KHL at 19 years old (and a young 19 at that).
Lambos definitely has top pairing potential.
Don't look at where they are drafted, look at what they are doing now.
Do you consider Hoglander a B prospect? Pods?
It's absolutely comically how you are putting down wild prospects. Your opinion doesn't matter what you think about them
I do know where and how they're playing in their respective leagues. I think my evaluations are fair.
Hoglander is already a top-six NHLer. He's not a prospect anymore.
I think Podkolzin's upside is more along the lines of a 2nd liner, at least in terms of production. Maybe with some good fortune, he produces a bit more by riding as the gritty/defensive presence alongside elite players, a la Hyman or Alex Burrows previously. I guess I'd rate that as a B+ prospect. Plus Podz is already performing just fine in his rookie NHL season, reducing some of the uncertainty there. I'd have Podz as a better prospect than all the aforementioned Minnesota prospects and I don't even rate him as a truly top-end prospect. He was in the KHL as a 17 year old, so I think his development ran a bit ahead of Khus too.
I think they're all good prospects and will probably be NHLers. Saying that I don't think they're high-end pieces is in no way putting them down. I don't even think Podkolzin is a truly high-end piece. Boldy and Rossi are true "A" tier prospects and project to be top-of-the-lineup players. This is why I did not consider them to be available for trade from Minnesota. I'm being more than fair.
See the post above for further explanation.
If you had some better reasoning beyond "your opinion bad," I would be inclined to hear you out more and reconsider my stance. But you haven't offered any information worth noting.
Nucker42
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- Nov 27, 2011
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1st, Greenway, Addison is my package.
I’m sure Wild fans will think this is steep but again, arguably the best player available by trade this year.
the 1st is hit or miss, Addison is not established so Greenway is the only true here and now player
I’m sure Wild fans will think this is steep but again, arguably the best player available by trade this year.
the 1st is hit or miss, Addison is not established so Greenway is the only true here and now player
It's a fair trade, I just don't think it's one Minnesota would make at this point. Then again it really depends on how attached they are to Addison, which I might be overestimating.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I guess it depends on what we think we could recoup trading Miller after the season. If it's just the Reinhart template, then the trade is basically Greenway + any difference between Addison and whatever prospect we'd get back.
Maybe Vancouver takes Rask as well (15-20% retained) to even out the salaries a bit for the year.
Szechwan
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What kind of player is Addison lately anyways? I was under the impression he was an average sized, offense oriented RD, which is not exactly a need for Van. Although if he can play passable Defense as well he's likely an upgrade over their current RD.
Would you have considered him a B prospect before he came into the league though?
Marat is a center and he had an injury last year. Both Lambos and Marat are A-/B+ prospects. Lambos was considered a top 5 prospect/top 10 prospect before his injury last season, which doesn't seem to be slowing him down. He's definitely has the upside of a top pairing defenseman.
Nucker42
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Just because Buffalo got screwed on a terrible deal doesn’t mean that the Eichel trade set the market. He was also a broken player who had a C stripped so maybe his value wasn’t as high as you think.
Well judd brackett, and bill Guerin would beg to differ with you. Marat Khusnutdinov who wild traded Luke kunin to select? Carson lambos , who Minnesota traded up to select. Calen addison who played in playoffs game vs. Vegas and was very steady?
"Average-sized, offense-oriented RD" is pretty apt. His biggest selling point is his ability to quarterback a powerplay which is why I think Minnesota would probably like to keep him: while we have a number of great defenseman we've lacked someone with Addison's combination of mobility and instincts on the powerplay. Vancouver probably has that role mostly covered, though.
Defensively he probably tops out as a middle-pairing guy, but I think he's made strides in that department and will continue to do so. He's a pretty smart player and doesn't shy away from physical play, but he'll need time to figure things out. I think he can work his way into "reliable" territory, but he's not going to be Spurgeon or Brodin.
Eichel's market did set the value and it should tell you that disgruntled players aren't going to get much. But, fiala and miller are equal. Minnesota isn't going to make a trade with sending 1st round pick out , when that late 1st was what they used to select jasper wallstedt. This 2022 draft is the best in a long long while. Calen addison was specifically asked for by the gm when Zucker was traded. Sorry, but you can keep Ht , and Minnesota can go after Tomas H instead
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Please stop talking like you have direct line to them. Whichever name you go by, it's annoying.
Also:
1. Trading Luke Kunin for somebody doesn't make them untouchable, and you're stretching to say that they "traded Kunin to select Marat".
2. We traded up to select Wallstedt, not Lambos.
3. Playing in 3 playoff games doesn't make somebody untouchable.
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Yeah, I would've considered him a B+ prospect, based on his trajectory. For Khus and Lambos, yes I think their max upsides could be high-end players. But their likely upside is probably a bit short of that. This is how I've evaluated Podz. Could be a Mark Stone type? Yeah sure, it's possible I guess. But probably not.
These prospects are clearly not in the Boldy/Rossi tier. Which is why I was discussing them, and not the former two.
I didn't know I was talking to Brackett and Guerin themselves. Again, you haven't offered any worthwhile information. Your argument has morphed from, "your opinion bad" to "well Minnesota brass thinks they're good". Yeah, okay. And I'm sure Jim Benning thinks Podz is an absolute stud too. He thought Virtanen and Juolevi were.
You're falling into the classic homer trap of overrating your team's prospects. I've literally said I think they're good, but not elite, prospects. Why that would be a controversial opinion is baffling. Somehow you've interpreted that as a stunning criticism that I don't share your belief that every prospect will hit their absolute max upside.
I am not the only one in here who said Minnesota wouldn't trade Calen addison. So he's not the voice of Minnesota fans. I am not speaking for anyone. But Tomas h could be had for a 1st and top prospect or b prospect
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Whatever the reasons why people don't want to trade for Miller, it mostly boils down to not wanting/caring about an extremely short-term solution. If we traded for Miller today, we're pretty sure that we're not going to have him for the next 6-7 seasons, let alone even just the 2022-23 season.
The names and ceilings of the prospects almost don't even matter. If there's a whiff of top 6 or top 4 ability, it's not something that we're going to be easy to let go of for 1 playoff run. Which is why guys like Khusnutdinov and Addison, even though they're no Boldy/Rossi/Lambos, get grouped in with them.
Mark Stone. Unless you think Fiala is worth less than Brannstrom and Oscar Lindberg.
Marat's upside is top 6, Lambos is top 2. Also I said Marat is getting there, he is B+ (being a center as well makes him more valuable). Lambos is definitely on the same level as Boldy/Rossi.
Lambos is and Marat is getting there.
A lot of scouts were high on Lambos before 2020, and that year was crazy for a lot of prospects.
Boondock
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1 - he was a free agent and wasn't re-signing in Ottawa
2 - At the time Brannstrom was seen as an elite RHD prospect (another reason why gambling solely on a prospect to hit their peak potential is a massive risk). Brannstrom was a better prospect than Addison for example.
3 - and I'm just being picky here because I think Stone is the better player, but Stone didn't have 2 consecutive ppg seasons prior to the season he was traded.
That trade looks terrible for the Sens so that's a great example of why you need to get better assets in trades for your top players - so if that's the value offered for Miller you don't trade him.
