Mike Richards (Warning in OP)

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Pretty sure Lombardi was thinking long term when he had the option to buy out Richards and chose not to.

MR is here to stay, Johnny, and he's playing well. Deal.
 
Toffoli and Pearson on bridge deals is not out of the realm of possibility.

It's no more fantasy, then you people saying 2-3 million is low.

Neither Pearson/Toffoli are 30 goal scorers, they are not veterans. They are not 50 point players.

They are not even 30 point players yet. They are promising young players, that will need a raise after the year. That raise will be based on (Cap space) and production.

Toffoli hasn't even hit the 20 goal mark in the NHL.

ALSO STOP BRINGING UP KOPITAR.....His deal might as well be light years away. You guys act like the cap won't go up at all for two years. His deal kicks in 2016...2016 folks.
 
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Pretty sure Lombardi was thinking long term when he had the option to buy out Richards and chose not to.

MR is here to stay, Johnny, and he's playing well. Deal.

I'll quote you on this. Lombardi gave him a 2nd chance. He straight up told him get in shape or else...The media had about 50 reports of a pending Richards' buyout, including Helene Elliott. It def crossed Lombardi's mind. So much he visited him over the summer to check in. Richards' himself was worried. His teammates even heard about it.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-richards-elliott-20140924-column.html
 
I'll quote you on this. Lombardi gave him a 2nd chance. He straight up told him get in shape or else...The media had about 50 reports of a pending Richards' buyout, including Helene Elliott. It def crossed Lombardi's mind. So much he visited him over the summer to check in. Richards' himself was worried. His teammates even heard about it.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-richards-elliott-20140924-column.html

His still on the team, you're acting like he was already traded, Or bought out.

Checks.....Yup Mike Richards is still a King.
 
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/los141112.html

Kings contemplated buying him out? Hmmmm.....

Now, they are thinking of trading him. Hmmmm...

He is still a King...true. But IMO and the opinion of the hockey media that moving forward, he is the first King dealt to remedy future cap problems.

Bob Mac is the only guy I consider a true insider. Everyone else is cannon fodder and hyperbole.

Even in the article you reference(couple of posts back), Bob Mac says "Slim to none of teams interested in taking Mike Richards contract".

folks, No Florida or EDM is coming to the Kings rescue, to take Richards cap hit. Once again, Lombardi had his chance this off-season. He choose not to use it.

I would be floored, if any team took Richards cap hit (Free and clear) off the Kings hands.
 
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I'll quote you on this. Lombardi gave him a 2nd chance. He straight up told him get in shape or else...The media had about 50 reports of a pending Richards' buyout, including Helene Elliott. It def crossed Lombardi's mind. So much he visited him over the summer to check in. Richards' himself was worried. His teammates even heard about it.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-richards-elliott-20140924-column.html

What gives you indication that Richards isn't living up to his second chance? He's outperforming everyone not on the 70s Line. He's in shape and playing well.

The Voynov situation has caused all kinds of speculation. Even Bob Mac is speculating here. Lombardi won't trade a performing Richards. It's simple.
 
I don't think both will be gone, but one will for sure. No doubt about it.

I still feel like if Stoll can somehow find his game that he is re-signed to a two year deal for probably about half of what Richards makes. That gives the Kings a Kopitar-Carter-Stoll trio down the middle and that almost $3 million in cap space will go a long way in getting one of TT or TP signed to their extension or used to re-sign a veteran UFA like Williams or Martinez.

The ball is in Stoll's court though, he provides the physical play and has turned into a serviceable defensive player which gives him the advantage over Richards, but if he is going to be this bad offensively the Kings may need to stick with Richards and that in turn is going to cost the Kings someone like Williams or Martinez because the money won't be there.

Now YOU can hold a discussion.

If Stoll could find his game, then it certainly would give us more options going forward. But I remember fighting with you over Stoll years ago, figuring he'd get back to 15 goals a year. He maybe has 15 since then. I'm never backing that horse again lol.

You aren't wrong in saying that keeping Richards could end up costing us somebody, but answer me this: who would we really miss in their current form? I hope Williams comes around, but imagine he doesn't? Why would we extend him? Same with Stoll, and he's already semi-expendable. I'd say Martinez is going to make his case one way or another in the coming games as well.

If we were hard up this summer, a guy like Clifford could always be moved, Lewis too, though I'd sooner hold on to him.

Ultimately, I think most would agree there is no clear cut move to make yet, and what some are calling short term thinking, its really just avoiding knee-jerk reactions that can do more harm than good. We'll get through Voynovgate, and deal with the salary cap implications when they actually exist. In the meantime, we are all in and gunning for it again.

What gives you indication that Richards isn't living up to his second chance? He's outperforming everyone not on the 70s Line. He's in shape and playing well.

The Voynov situation has caused all kinds of speculation. Even Bob Mac is speculating here. Lombardi won't trade a performing Richards. It's simple.

This won't be answered. He'll just link a random outdated article about Richards and high five himself.
 
I mean, does anyone even have set expectations for him? A certain number of points or time on ice that would appease everyone?
 
Some seem to want Richards to fail, interesting.

I think that is BS. I would prefer to see other players stay and I don't believe it can happen with his contract on the books, but it doesn't mean I am rooting for him to fail, that is ridiculous, we are all Kings fans. And actually in truth, there are some on this board who are Richards fans first and Kings fans second.
 
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I mean, does anyone even have set expectations for him? A certain number of points or time on ice that would appease everyone?

I find it interesting how points didn't matter last year to some and now they do. I have said on numerous occasions that point don't matter to me with Mike Richards, I know the high scoring player is never coming back. I just have serious doubts that he has the all around game to justify his contract and the players we will lose in order to keep him on the roster. Again, atleast for me, it's more about money than anything else.

Now YOU can hold a discussion.

If Stoll could find his game, then it certainly would give us more options going forward. But I remember fighting with you over Stoll years ago, figuring he'd get back to 15 goals a year. He maybe has 15 since then. I'm never backing that horse again lol.

You aren't wrong in saying that keeping Richards could end up costing us somebody, but answer me this: who would we really miss in their current form? I hope Williams comes around, but imagine he doesn't? Why would we extend him? Same with Stoll, and he's already semi-expendable. I'd say Martinez is going to make his case one way or another in the coming games as well.

If we were hard up this summer, a guy like Clifford could always be moved, Lewis too, though I'd sooner hold on to him.

Ultimately, I think most would agree there is no clear cut move to make yet, and what some are calling short term thinking, its really just avoiding knee-jerk reactions that can do more harm than good. We'll get through Voynovgate, and deal with the salary cap implications when they actually exist. In the meantime, we are all in and gunning for it again.

Well, with Kopitar and Carter the Kings don't need their third line center to be an offensive dynamo, but they also can't have an offensive blackhole like Stoll and that is what may be Stoll's undoing in this likely battle for that one job with Richards. Stoll is better defensively and more physical than Richards, but he is terrible offensively and drags down his linemates as well and provides no insurance should one of the centers go down. But he also could probably be signed for a two year deal at less than $3 million which gives the Kings much needed cap relief.

It basically comes down to the value each player has in their contracts.
 
Need a Stoll thread.

It will come down between trading Richards or Stoll, and at this point Stoll has been MIA. Stoll is not a goal scorer and he's not really a passer, so all he's got is face offs and leadership don't know how far that'll take him with barely any cap left.
 
I mean, does anyone even have set expectations for him? A certain number of points or time on ice that would appease everyone?
I always liked the guy.
His cap hit is a bit big, and he hasn't been everything we would want in the last few seasons... But I think even on his game he is one of those players that is not well defined by stats.
 
Richards' play tonight showed why he can still be a valuable member on the team. Look what happens when some lines can't perform on certain nights, need guys like Richards to step it up, and he's done that.
 
Yeah Herby, I'd say Stoll seemed better defensively than Richards largely because of Richards' suck-slump. Now that Richards' overall game seems to be back, Stoll is clearly a notch below all-around. Personally I prefer having 3 solid centers capable of top 6 roles, its what keeps us lethal most nights when half the players are sputtering. Its worth a bit of an overpayment, and we won't realize the dynamic we've lost until its gone. For the time we have left where Richards is playing useful hockey, I take that, even when knowing that perhaps the last couple years of his deal might be unpleasant.
 
Yeah Herby, I'd say Stoll seemed better defensively than Richards largely because of Richards' suck-slump. Now that Richards' overall game seems to be back, Stoll is clearly a notch below all-around. Personally I prefer having 3 solid centers capable of top 6 roles, its what keeps us lethal most nights when half the players are sputtering. Its worth a bit of an overpayment, and we won't realize the dynamic we've lost until its gone. For the time we have left where Richards is playing useful hockey, I take that, even when knowing that perhaps the last couple years of his deal might be unpleasant.

Lol I just posted about Stoll in the pgt. I agree with you. If Carter was hurt, we would have Stoll centering TTTP. He would still be in our dzone while the kids would already shooting the puck.

Injuries happen, and I would rather have Richards plug into kopitar or carter spots if they ever get hurt.
 
We're 3M over and you aren't carrying a single extra player. So if anyone gets hurt we can't even call a player up.

This comment completely ignores the additional part of my post which stated I also didn't include any cap increase, assumed Williams and Martinez each get $4 million or more and are both retained, and that several players were included at a few $100,000's over their qualifier. We will be a lot closer to the cap (and maybe a decent amount under it) once those factors play out so we have actual numbers to use.

Toffoli makes 2 million? I wish. Have you seen the new modern NHL salaries for young players? Pearson might get that, but not TT.

What about Clifford, Andreoff and Nolan? Kings love those type of players.

I'm telling you. Richards' is gone. The Kings can keep most of the team together, re-sign Martinez and have some cash for the RFA's and Kopitar. Otherwise, the Kings are against the Cap for years.

Look at all the Kings big long term contracts and think about who they would move...

Carter - No
Brown - Probably Not
Muzzin - No
Doughty - No
Quick - No
Richards' - ???
Voynov - Maybe?

Well, i actually have Toffoli at $2.25 million, but if you think he'll get more then you may be right. However how much more? I posted comparables to him in this thread or another one a few days ago. The only comparables I could see getting much more than him were Duchene and Johansen and in the case of Johansen it was a three year deal. DL sees to stick to two year deals on bridge contracts, which is what is most likelt coming for Toffoli. Duchene was coming off a bad year but had two 50+ or 60+ point seasons before that and had three full NHL seasons under his belt. So naturally he'd get more.

On a two year deal I doubt Toffoli nets more than $2.75 million, assuming of course he does not continue to score at his current pace, which would have him at 87 points this season. The last time we had that happen was 2000-2001 with Ziggy Palffy so I really doubt Toffoli is going to be the guy to do it.

As for what about Andreoff, Nolan and Clifford, well frankly Nolan and Andreoff can be cut in my opinion. This discussion has turned into one about cap space, what are you getting from those guys? Likely Weal and Shore will both provide a lot more than Andreoff. I don't see many on here defending him besides you Johnny and that's likely only because he can hit and fight. Ditto for Nolan.

But if you really want Clifford and Andreoff on there, plug them in and take off Weal and Shore. It's basically the same salary. I doubt many would agree with keeping Andreoff over Weal however, and he is waiver eligible next season.

Also, for the last time, Kopitar is irrelevant to all of this at the moment. No one even knows what he's asking or what the cap will be like then. And as far as contracts I'd be willing to dump, yeah, I'd deal Brown before Richards. For all the flogging you give Richards for not earning his cap hit, Brown's is higher and he produces less. The only reason no one is saying boo about him is because he wears the C on a cup winning team. Bang for the buck, he's arguably the worst on the team right now and he was pretty awful last year too.

I'll quote you on this. Lombardi gave him a 2nd chance. He straight up told him get in shape or else...The media had about 50 reports of a pending Richards' buyout, including Helene Elliott. It def crossed Lombardi's mind. So much he visited him over the summer to check in. Richards' himself was worried. His teammates even heard about it.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-richards-elliott-20140924-column.html

Does anyone recall the story about DL going to talk to Doughty the year before his draft and telling him that if he gets himself into shape the Kings would draft him (if he was still on the board at their pick)?

Drew Doughty was a very talented kid. So talented in fact that he didn't have to work for it to be successful on the ice. DL basically told him if he wants to be a member of the Kings then he needs to show a commitment to the game. Doughty went and worked out 4-5 times a week, got into much better shape and DL drafted him.

DL gives his word and his keeps it. He told Richards to get into shape or else but if he did he'd stick with him. Richards got into shape. He didn't buy him out and so far we've been rewarded with a decent season, although I agree the offensive numbers need to improve, but that can be said about virtually the entire team.

Now I'm not sayinG DL won't trade him. The Voynov situation put DL in a position for which no did, or could have, planned for, and as such he may have to break his word. That doesn't mean that what played out over the summer about Richards weight/conditioning has any bearing on a deal now or a buy out, so it's a moot point.
 
Need a Stoll thread.

It will come down between trading Richards or Stoll, and at this point Stoll has been MIA. Stoll is not a goal scorer and he's not really a passer, so all he's got is face offs and leadership don't know how far that'll take him with barely any cap left.

Stoll has been bad, in pretty much all facets of the game save (face-off's)

This ^^^^

I think Stoll is the guy to go. If we need cap space this year there's no point paying $3.25m to a guy at this point only useful in very limited roles (ie faceoffs, leadership). Im sure some team will overpay for him in UFA market OR just pay him more then we will want given the value he'd bring to them in whatever capacity they see him.

I love Williams, he's a warrior and I remember being a rookie on the Cougars when he was there, so obvious connection. That said, he'll likely command $4m + and IMO while important to the Kings, at his contract price he should be allowed to walk. Kempe, Zykov, Proks, maybe even Kitsyn could slot in to Willy's spot... that 70s line, followed by King-Richards-Brown... I wouldnt trade him before season's over, just dont see signing him to another contract unless you're shipping Brown out which is unlikely.

Id rather have Mike Richards here even on his contract. He's still a useful player and improved dedication to the game could be a big factor im him doing what we need him to do.
 
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