Mike Richards (Warning in OP)

[KINGS17]

I thought this recapture penalty went to the team that actually signed him? If we trade him we are subject to it? If someone can clearify for me i would appreciate it

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-does-cap-advantage-recapture-work

The cap advantage recapture rule effectively forces teams to “pay back†any “cap advantage†they received from these contracts, should the player retire or defect from the NHL before his contract expires. If the player fulfills his contract in full, there are no cap advantage recapture penalties.

The 2013 CBA states that any long-term contract — defined as seven years or more — entered into on or before Sept. 15, 2012, is eligible for cap advantage recapture if a team received a “cap advantage†from it at the time the player retires or defects from the NHL.

The cold, hard details of the rule follow in this FAQ entry, but if that’s not your thing, check out CapGeek’s recapture grid for a quick look at the eligible players and their penalties, or use CapGeek’s recapture calculator to test out your own scenarios.

A “cap advantage†is accrued when the player’s actual salary exceeds his cap hit in a given year. A negative “cap advantage†is applied to that accrual in cases where the player’s cap hit exceeds actual salary in a given season, although it should be noted that teams do not receive a credit for net negative cap advantage.

At the time of retirement/defection, the net “cap advantage†will be “recaptured†— charged against the team’s cap in equal amounts each year until the contract expires. This applies to any team that received a net “cap advantage†from the contract — meaning trading the player won’t make the problem go away — except for teams that dealt the player on or prior to Sept. 15, 2012.

This means that Philadelphia is not responsible for the cap advantage they received with Mike Richards and Columbus is not responsible for the cap advantage they received with Jeff Carter.

I suppose that since the Kings have been enjoying the net "cap advantage" of Richards and Carter's contract, that any recapture penalties down the road would be on the Kings.

 

[Johnny Utah]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/12/welcome-mike-richards-to-the-trade-rumor-mill/

 

[Johnny Utah]

There is a market for centers. Kings are deep at center.

Kings could easily go with Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, and Lewis or Andreoff as the 4th line center and be fine.

If the Kings let Stoll walk, Weal or Shore could take that spot next year. Weal was one of the last cuts and Kings are high on Shore and look at his numbers so far.

This is logical move.

It's not about liking or not like Richards. It comes down to the depth at center and Kings cap flexibility.

 

[kingsfan]

I think this has to be the only thread where Stoll is given any value, called a real option at centre and not being called 'Stool' every fifth post. Only Mike Richards can prompt that level of love.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[damacles1156]

Stoll has been garbage to start this season, if he continues this way; be lucky to receive a contract offer at all. Williams/Stoll have been disappointments to start out here.

Williams 14GP 1G 2A 3P -1
Stoll 13GP 0G 1A 1P -1

 

[YP44]

There is a market for centers. Kings are deep at center.

Kings could easily go with Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, and Lewis or Andreoff as the 4th line center and be fine.

If the Kings let Stoll walk, Weal or Shore could take that spot next year. Weal was one of the last cuts and Kings are high on Shore and look at his numbers so far.

This is logical move.

It's not about liking or not like Richards. It comes down to the depth at center and Kings cap flexibility.

I grudgingly agree. I want to keep Richards but if the cap does not go up he may need to be moved. I don't see why we would have to do it until the voynov thing fully plays out, and assuming voynov is allowed back with the team why at all before the draft. If voynov is not allowed back with the club this season than DL will need the relief to bring in a top 4 defender for the playoffs.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

As far as Richards goes, I say don't play with the chemistry of the team until that becomes absolutely necessary. That would be in the offseason at the earliest. The issues with Slava will likely run their course and it doesn't appear like the Kings are interested in moving him unless a Ray Rice video appears.

I think this has to be the only thread where Stoll is given any value, called a real option at centre and not being called 'Stool' every fifth post. Only Mike Richards can prompt that level of love.

What is funny is reading Herby praise Stool's defensive prowess and attacking Richards' lack thereof. I'm not saying he is wrong but just funny reading somebody who coined the term "Stool" go to bat for said player.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/12/welcome-mike-richards-to-the-trade-rumor-mill/

This isn't a rumor. It was speculation by a few pundits that has turned into a game of telephone.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Stoll has been garbage to start this season, if he continues this way; be lucky to receive a contract offer at all. Williams/Stoll have been disappointments to start out here.

Williams 14GP 1G 2A 3P -1
Stoll 13GP 0G 1A 1P -1

True. But Stoll is a big body and great face-off guy who is solid in the playoffs. Kings love him as a person too.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Stoll's looking like a 4th line center and playing like one. Richards isn't. He's performed like a 2nd line C. As far as I'm concerned, the Kings have two #1 lines and a 2nd line that is capable of producing and a checking line that has been carried by the play of Kyle Clifford.

If it came down to picking one of Richards or Stoll, I'm picking Richards without any hesitation.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

There is a market for centers. Kings are deep at center.

Kings could easily go with Kopitar, Carter, Stoll, and Lewis or Andreoff as the 4th line center and be fine.

If the Kings let Stoll walk, Weal or Shore could take that spot next year. Weal was one of the last cuts and Kings are high on Shore and look at his numbers so far.

This is logical move.

It's not about liking or not like Richards. It comes down to the depth at center and Kings cap flexibility.

So Richards AND Stoll?

And in a matter of months, our vaunted center depth is no more.

 

[Herby]

True. But Stoll is a big body and great face-off guy who is solid in the playoffs. Kings love him as a person too.

True, but he isn't coming back as a 3 mill a year fourth line center, and his complete lack of offense makes it tough to justify him as a third line center.

As bad as Richards contract is for a third line center, $3 million (or whatever Stoll's contract will be) to be a fourth liner may be even worse.

You have said it yourself numerous times Johnny, and you are correct, there is no way the Kings will be paying $25 million a year to four centers once Kopitar's contract kicks in. One of Richards or Stoll will not be in LA after this season, and while Stoll is better defensively and more physical, you can't be a non-factor in the offensive zone making $3 mill a year.

 

[kingsfan]

True. But Stoll is a big body and great face-off guy who is solid in the playoffs. Kings love him as a person too.

Last season Stoll had a 54.7 winning percentage in faceoffs, Richards was 53.9 per cent. Richards was 32nd in the entire league in face off winning percentage for anyone with 100 or more faceoffs. Stoll was 21st.

And I'm pretty sure we can all agree Richards is way more solid in the playoffs than Stoll. Last three playoffs, Stoll has 58 games and 12 points. Richards has 61 games and 37 points.

Ideally I'd like to keep Stoll's faceoff ability as well, it is very good, but Richards is hardly a drop off and he brings way more offence despite how much you guys flog him for not producing.

 

[Herby]

So Richards AND Stoll?

And in a matter of months, our vaunted center depth is no more.

I don't think both will be gone, but one will for sure. No doubt about it.

I still feel like if Stoll can somehow find his game that he is re-signed to a two year deal for probably about half of what Richards makes. That gives the Kings a Kopitar-Carter-Stoll trio down the middle and that almost $3 million in cap space will go a long way in getting one of TT or TP signed to their extension or used to re-sign a veteran UFA like Williams or Martinez.

The ball is in Stoll's court though, he provides the physical play and has turned into a serviceable defensive player which gives him the advantage over Richards, but if he is going to be this bad offensively the Kings may need to stick with Richards and that in turn is going to cost the Kings someone like Williams or Martinez because the money won't be there.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Lombardi said once in an interview everywhere Stoll goes, he has a teammate with him. Remember when AEG was promoting their other arenas, who did they send to represent the Kings....Stoll.
Lombardi loves that kind of player. He is a glue guy.

Stoll will take a paycut to stay in LA and the term can be shorter. In the case of Richards', the Kings are stuck with 5.75 million for 5 more years.

With Stoll also, you can shift Weal and Shore up and down as a 4h line or 3rd like center and Stol won't complain. Richards' is not a 4th line center and keeping him forces Weal and Shore to be 4th line centers in the future.

 

[Trolfoli]

Richards just needs to talk to the captain about how to be invisible on and off the ice. It's amazing that Brown seems to escape the ire of the fans.

Now dumping Brown's cap hit wouldn't have a cap recapture penalty....

 

[YP44]

Richards just needs to talk to the captain about how to be invisible on and off the ice. It's amazing that Brown seems to escape the ire of the fans.

Now dumping Brown's cap hit wouldn't have a cap recapture penalty....

Part of me would rather dump brown than Richards.

 

[kingsfan]

I don't think both will be gone, but one will for sure. No doubt about it.

I still feel like if Stoll can somehow find his game that he is re-signed to a two year deal for probably about half of what Richards makes. That gives the Kings a Kopitar-Carter-Stoll trio down the middle and that almost $3 million in cap space will go a long way in getting one of TT or TP signed to their extension or used to re-sign a veteran UFA like Williams or Martinez.

The ball is in Stoll's court though, he provides the physical play and has turned into a serviceable defensive player which gives him the advantage over Richards, but if he is going to be this bad offensively the Kings may need to stick with Richards and that in turn is going to cost the Kings someone like Williams or Martinez because the money won't be there.

Here's my stab at it. This is assuming the cap does not go up at all (which it seems very likely that it will go up, if only $1 million - $1.5 million). I also resigned some RFA's/UFA's in here.

FORWARDS
Tyler Toffoli ($2.250m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Dustin Brown ($5.875m)
Tanner Pearson ($2.250m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Marian Gaborik ($4.875m)
Dwight King ($1.950m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jordan Weal ($1.000m)
Trevor Lewis ($1.525m) / Nick Shore ($1.100m) / Justin Williams ($4.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Slava Voynov ($4.167m)
Jake Muzzin ($4.000m) / Matt Greene ($2.500m)
Brayden McNabb ($0.650m) / Alec Martinez ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Martin Jones ($0.800m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $72,064,394; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): -$3,064,394

So assuming no cap increase and that guys like Weal, Shore and Jones resign for above their qualifiers (likely at least one or two will resign for less than what I stated), and assuming Williams gets $4.5 million and that Martinez gets $4 million, AND that both Toffoli and Pearson resign bridge deals at $2.25 million per season for two years each (that's the exact mid-point between the $2 - $2.5 million I pegged them at resigning for) then we are about $3 million over the cap if we let Stoll and Regehr walk.

Basically if Williams and Martinez resign for a bit less and the cap goes up $2-$3 million we should be fine. Tight but fine.

 

[CowMix]

Here's my stab at it. This is assuming the cap does not go up at all (which it seems very likely that it will go up, if only $1 million - $1.5 million). I also resigned some RFA's/UFA's in here.

FORWARDS
Tyler Toffoli ($2.250m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Dustin Brown ($5.875m)
Tanner Pearson ($2.250m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Marian Gaborik ($4.875m)
Dwight King ($1.950m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jordan Weal ($1.000m)
Trevor Lewis ($1.525m) / Nick Shore ($1.100m) / Justin Williams ($4.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Slava Voynov ($4.167m)
Jake Muzzin ($4.000m) / Matt Greene ($2.500m)
Brayden McNabb ($0.650m) / Alec Martinez ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Martin Jones ($0.800m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $72,064,394; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): -$3,064,394

So assuming no cap increase and that guys like Weal, Shore and Jones resign for above their qualifiers (likely at least one or two will resign for less than what I stated), and assuming Williams gets $4.5 million and that Martinez gets $4 million, AND that both Toffoli and Pearson resign bridge deals at $2.25 million per season for two years each (that's the exact mid-point between the $2 - $2.5 million I pegged them at resigning for) then we are about $3 million over the cap if we let Stoll and Regehr walk.

Basically if Williams and Martinez resign for a bit less and the cap goes up $2-$3 million we should be fine. Tight but fine.

Why do you have Williams on the 4th line? Are your line combos and dpairings just random?

 

[kingsfan]

Why do you have Williams on the 4th line? Are your line combos and dpairings just random?

Pretty much yes. I'm just getting the names and salaries in there, not line combos.

 

[tsanuri]

Here's my stab at it. This is assuming the cap does not go up at all (which it seems very likely that it will go up, if only $1 million - $1.5 million). I also resigned some RFA's/UFA's in here.

FORWARDS
Tyler Toffoli ($2.250m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Dustin Brown ($5.875m)
Tanner Pearson ($2.250m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Marian Gaborik ($4.875m)
Dwight King ($1.950m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jordan Weal ($1.000m)
Trevor Lewis ($1.525m) / Nick Shore ($1.100m) / Justin Williams ($4.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Slava Voynov ($4.167m)
Jake Muzzin ($4.000m) / Matt Greene ($2.500m)
Brayden McNabb ($0.650m) / Alec Martinez ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Martin Jones ($0.800m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $72,064,394; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): -$3,064,394

So assuming no cap increase and that guys like Weal, Shore and Jones resign for above their qualifiers (likely at least one or two will resign for less than what I stated), and assuming Williams gets $4.5 million and that Martinez gets $4 million, AND that both Toffoli and Pearson resign bridge deals at $2.25 million per season for two years each (that's the exact mid-point between the $2 - $2.5 million I pegged them at resigning for) then we are about $3 million over the cap if we let Stoll and Regehr walk.

Basically if Williams and Martinez resign for a bit less and the cap goes up $2-$3 million we should be fine. Tight but fine.

We're 3M over and you aren't carrying a single extra player. So if anyone gets hurt we can't even call a player up.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Toffoli makes 2 million? I wish. Have you seen the new modern NHL salaries for young players? Pearson might get that, but not TT.

What about Clifford, Andreoff and Nolan? Kings love those type of players.

I'm telling you. Richards' is gone. The Kings can keep most of the team together, re-sign Martinez and have some cash for the RFA's and Kopitar. Otherwise, the Kings are against the Cap for years.

Look at all the Kings big long term contracts and think about who they would move...

Carter - No
Brown - Probably Not
Muzzin - No
Doughty - No
Quick - No
Richards' - ???
Voynov - Maybe?

 

[Herby]

We're 3M over and you aren't carrying a single extra player. So if anyone gets hurt we can't even call a player up.

And I think the Pearson and Toffoli numbers are really low. And on top of that you have Kopitar needing to be re-signed and his salary likely increases to 9+ a year after next season, that has to be factored in.

And you can also mention how much weaker the Kings defense looks without RR, it would be tough to lose Mitchell and RR in back to back years and have zero cap space to fix the problem at the deadline.

If you guys are wondering why these rumors are being reported by MacKenzie and others, you need to look no further than kingsfan's capgeek chart. The Kings are officially in cap hell after this season. Now if people don't want to discuss it right now that is fine, I understand it, the Kings wanted to bring the band back and go for 3 in 4 years. But there is a reason it is being discussed, some people like to look ahead, this is hockeysfuture after all.

 

[tsanuri]

And I think the Pearson and Toffoli numbers are really low. And on top of that you have Kopitar needing to be re-signed and his salary likely increases to 9+ a year after next season, that has to be factored in.

And you can also mention how much weaker the Kings defense looks without RR, it would be tough to lose Mitchell and RR in back to back years and have zero cap space to fix the problem at the deadline.

If you guys are wondering why these rumors are being reported by MacKenzie and others, you need to look no further than kingsfan's capgeek chart. The Kings are officially in cap hell after this season. Now if people don't want to discuss it right now that is fine, I understand it, the Kings wanted to bring the band back and go for 3 in 4 years. But there is a reason it is being discussed, some people like to look ahead, this is hockeysfuture after all.

I wouldn't say they are really low for a bridge deal. But they are definitely on the optimistic side.
And this is really where the players also have put themselves partly in this position with the cap. It was reported they didn't take the full 5% escalator because of escrow concerns. And those 5% increases end up adding up over time.
But even DL with all his cap magic and planning I don't think could have envisioned a potential year without any real increase in the cap. And that alone will force change of some kind.

 

[Johnny Utah]

And I think the Pearson and Toffoli numbers are really low. And on top of that you have Kopitar needing to be re-signed and his salary likely increases to 9+ a year after next season, that has to be factored in.

And you can also mention how much weaker the Kings defense looks without RR, it would be tough to lose Mitchell and RR in back to back years and have zero cap space to fix the problem at the deadline.

If you guys are wondering why these rumors are being reported by MacKenzie and others, you need to look no further than kingsfan's capgeek chart. The Kings are officially in cap hell after this season. Now if people don't want to discuss it right now that is fine, I understand it, the Kings wanted to bring the band back and go for 3 in 4 years. But there is a reason it is being discussed, some people like to look ahead, this is hockeysfuture after all.

Exactly. A lot of denial and short term thinking on this board. Lombardi is NOT a short term thinker. He has his boxes drawn up in his office. I'm sure the names Shore and Weal are right under Stoll and Richards'.

Johnson was moved because Voynov was ready. Pearson took over for Frattin and Penner. It's just a matter of time until Weal and Shore replace Richards' and Stoll.

Kings are in Cap hell. That will be the cost of keeping the two top centers, Kopitar and Carter, their captain, Brown, 3 core D-men in Doughty, Muzzin, and Voynov and a goalie in Quick.

It doesn't make sense to keep Richards'. If there is no Carter, you keep Richards'. But that's not the case.

Richards' doesn't want to be a 4th line center...and that is exactly what he is.

I would deal him now. His value is still decent and he is only 29.