Mike Richards IV: Started From The Bottom, Still Here *MOD WARNING Post #194*

[SettlementRichie10]

I never said buying Richards out was easy on Phil's wallet, I just said all it took was money, and as Herby and I have already explained Mike Richards' contract is a sunk cost. If he isn't playing for the Kings in the NHL, he shouldn't be part of the Kings' organization.

Just spit balling, but I bet Dean can get a lot more for Kopitar than additional cap space. He is still the Kings' asset for the entire 2015-2016 season. If Kopitar's salary demands are not reasonable, he can be moved for some pretty good players and/or picks.

Say for example Dean talked to Detroit. Let's start by asking for Nyquist in return, maybe ask them to throw in Sheahan and a #1 pick as well. After that he still has cap space to add something else to the Kings, and he still has Doughty, Carter, and Quick.

You see Dean does have cards to play in a contract negotiation with Kopitar. Lombardi will never allow Kopitar to leave the Kings and get nothing in return, and I don't think he will allow Kopitar's agent to screw up his cap management. As I said before though, I expect Kopitar will be reasonable.

Lombardi has already screwed up his own cap management, and buying out Richards NOW wouldn't make things any better.

The reason Richards is still in this organization is because Lombardi refuses to waste phantom cap space on a player sitting at home. Be that through cap retention in a trade, or a buyout, DL is refusing to just eat 2-3 million in cap space for the next five years. It flies in the face of everything he believes in.

A buyout pretty much nullifies any chance we have of a third Cup over the next 5-6 years. Contending teams aren't eating phantom space like that and icing a competitive roster. I can't believe you guys actually believe that's a good option.

a Mike Richards at PPG in Manchester mentoring the prospects at his salary is worth more than 2-3 million in empty cap space until the year 3000. If Lombardi thought a buyout was a reasonable idea at all he would have done it already.

Lombardi either thinks Richards can transform his game and carve out a new niche on the NHL squad, or he can be traded without retaining salary over the summer.

 

[Trolfoli]

Calgary's played like one game without Giordano, Vancouver has like 5 without Miller. We;ve had 60+ without Voynov, that's not a fair comparision.

Sure, but once Voynov was switched to LTIR Lombardi could have gotten a replacement for him.... well other then McBain.... who wasn't playing bad recently... I guess we'll also see if those teams sink now....

Just look at Vancouver's line up... clearly a better team then the Kings, even without Voynov.

I just don't see how this team can compete in the playoffs (IF) with Stoll... Maybe he goes into playoff mode like last year and everyone wonders where Stoll had been the whole season... I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[moosehead81]

What is funny about what he said?

The numbers are pretty simple, you don't need to be a labor lawyer to get it.

- Richards NHL cap hit is $5.75m, his AHL cap hit is $4.82m, his actual guaranteed salary regardless of league is $7m.

- Shore's NHL cap hit is 925k, he has no cap hit when in the AHL, his actual salary is 925k in the NHL and 70k in the AHL.

So when the Kings made the transaction the cap savings on MR was immediately cancelled out by the call up of Shore who's actual salary increased by about 850k (pro rated for less). But by all means keep saying the Kings made the move for financial reasons, whatever excuse floats your boat, the reality is, the Kings gained nothing in cap space and are paying more money in actual salary with the Shore for Richards transaction than they would have had they not made it.

BTW, do either one of you have an opinion for the sudden improved play of Nolan and Clifford? They look pretty good for a couple of anchors.

The reference was to 23 roster players all being "better" than Mike Richards. There was no mention of the salary cap issue. However, you keep putting your almost, I would say, abnormal twist on things to "float your boat" if that makes you happy. And PS Mike Richards is, on his worst day, a better hockey player than a number of current roster players on their best day.

And put Nolan and Clifford opposite Kopitar or Carter and see how well their so called improved play does for Kopitar's and Carter's play. Wait, Sutter may well try that if they're that good.

 

[MsMeow]

Brown still has value. He showed up in camp to GREAT shape. He has size, which helps in the playoffs and olympics, especially when he's playing the body.

Richards' was left off team Canada last year and was on the 4th line in the playoffs. Enough said.

Oh noes! A player was left off the best team on the planet! So was Claude Giroux and a ton of other players. Man, you're reaching.

 

[kingsfan]

Yeah, he is. Look up the definition of a sunk cost. It's money already spent on an asset that you no longer can use, or have no need of using.

I said he's not JUST a sunk cost. As I stated in the rest of my post, the sole reason to buy him out is to free up the cap space to bring in another player, that cost needs to be factored into the equation. It's not really a $20 million hit, it's more likely $30 million or more when factoring in the salary of whomever we bring in (more or less, depending on the term of the contract of the player(s) brought in). Or it could be spent on extensions. You can't just view it in a vaccuum.

Sure, but once Voynov was switched to LTIR Lombardi could have gotten a replacement for him.... well other then McBain.... who wasn't playing bad recently... I guess we'll also see if those teams sink now....

Just look at Vancouver's line up... clearly a better team then the Kings, even without Voynov.

I just don't see how this team can compete in the playoffs (IF) with Stoll... Maybe he goes into playoff mode like last year and everyone wonders where Stoll had been the whole season... I'll be pleasantly surprised.

That's like saying Vancouver could have got a replacement for Miller or Calgary for Giordano. Replacements of that caliber don't grow on trees and are also dependent on another team willing to trade a player of that caliber. Who was going to part with a Voynov type of player two weeks into the season? Just as many as were willing to move a Miller or Giordano type at the deadline.

Which seaks nothing of the cost to get such a player. The only reason we got Sekera is the Canes were finally willing to move him -I doubt highly he was available in December- and we paid up a hefty price to get him.

As for vancouver versus LA's line up, I'll stick with the one with the cup rings for now thanks.

 

[KINGS17]

I said he's not JUST a sunk cost. As I stated in the rest of my post, the sole reason to buy him out is to free up the cap space to bring in another player, that cost needs to be factored into the equation. It's not really a $20 million hit, it's more likely $30 million or more when factoring in the salary of whomever we bring in (more or less, depending on the term of the contract of the player(s) brought in). Or it could be spent on extensions. You can't just view it in a vaccuum.

If Richards isn't good enough to play on the Kings' roster or be traded, that's exactly what you do.

 

[KINGS17]

Lombardi has already screwed up his own cap management, and buying out Richards NOW wouldn't make things any better.

The reason Richards is still in this organization is because Lombardi refuses to waste phantom cap space on a player sitting at home. Be that through cap retention in a trade, or a buyout, DL is refusing to just eat 2-3 million in cap space for the next five years. It flies in the face of everything he believes in.

A buyout pretty much nullifies any chance we have of a third Cup over the next 5-6 years. Contending teams aren't eating phantom space like that and icing a competitive roster. I can't believe you guys actually believe that's a good option.

a Mike Richards at PPG in Manchester mentoring the prospects at his salary is worth more than 2-3 million in empty cap space until the year 3000. If Lombardi thought a buyout was a reasonable idea at all he would have done it already.

Lombardi either thinks Richards can transform his game and carve out a new niche on the NHL squad, or he can be traded without retaining salary over the summer.

A) A trade would obviously be the best solution for the Kings. Who wants Richards?

Of course buying out Richards' contract would make things better in the immediate future. It lowers the cap hit of his contract immediately and spreads out the damage over a number of years.

B) Not even sure what "phantom cap space" is in your mind, but much more in cap space is being wasted in Manchester right now.

C) A buy out would suck, but it's a better option than paying Richards to play in Manchester, or have him play for the Kings with the way he was performing this season.

BTW, Lombardi decided with his heart and not his head that he would not buy out Richards' contract last summer. Now Lombardi has to wait until this summer for the next buy out period. One way or another Richards time with the Kings is likely over.

If Dean can trade Richards without retaining salary he really is a wizard, jedi master, whatever other mythological creature you can think of that can trick humans into doing stupid stuff. You really can't believe that is a possibility, but maybe you do, and that really is laughable.

 

[417th]

I see at least one possible scenario where we could move Richards without any further troubles.

When the ACES comes into the league in two seasons there will be an expansion draft and Richards would likely be a player picked up to help mentor that team as well as helping them reach the cap floor. Not a lock but a possibility. There has been talk of another buyout similar to the last one if the cap isn't capable of being raised. I don't pay too much attention to these situations as I think that they are part of doing business but those two situations though not perfect are possible outs. I am sure there are others. My point is that we aren't NHLGM's and can come up with at least imaginative scenarios where these things can be handled. I believe that an actual NHLGM has at least an actual idea of what can be done to fix things. I still feel that Lombardi has a card or two to play this summer. If not then nobody is perfect and we move on. Maybe Richards concussion issues pop back up and he goes out like Pronger (the only true embarrassment that the NHL has had over the past few years imo. Voynov is potentially another one.

 

[KINGS17]

I see at least one possible scenario where we could move Richards without any further troubles.

When the ACES comes into the league in two seasons there will be an expansion draft and Richards would likely be a player picked up to help mentor that team as well as helping them reach the cap floor. Not a lock but a possibility. There has been talk of another buyout similar to the last one if the cap isn't capable of being raised. I don't pay too much attention to these situations as I think that they are part of doing business but those two situations though not perfect are possible outs. I am sure there are others. My point is that we aren't NHLGM's and can come up with at least imaginative scenarios where these things can be handled. I believe that an actual NHLGM has at least an actual idea of what can be done to fix things. I still feel that Lombardi has a card or two to play this summer. If not then nobody is perfect and we move on. Maybe Richards concussion issues pop back up and he goes out like Pronger (the only true embarrassment that the NHL has had over the past few years imo. Voynov is potentially another one.

Agree. Any of these would be a fortuitous circumstance for the Kings. These type of things always seem to pop up in the NHL whenever the Flyers or Rangers need them to occur.

 

[theMajor]

Oh noes! A player was left off the best team on the planet! So was Claude Giroux and a ton of other players. Man, you're reaching.

seriously

Brown made the US team so obviously hes playing well
and Richards was left off so obviously hes done as a player!!! (are you ******** me ?)

I know Mr Utah loves bashing on Richards, but jesus christ, talk about a dumb argument

 

[417th]

Agree. Any of these would be a fortuitous circumstance for the Kings. These type of things always seem to pop up in the NHL whenever the Flyers or Rangers need them to occur.

Fortunate is the word that I was thinking of. It was on the tip of my tongue but I couldn't come up with it so thanks a ton for that. It was driving me crazier. Am I the only one who has heard of the possibility of another creative buyout happening or has it been going around? It had something to do with the cap but I can't recall what. There was an interesting panel on Bus (I will post a link as soon as someone reports on it) in Quebec that took place this past weekend through to last night where they discussed many different scenarios for bus development in Quebec along with the possibility of NHL expansion in the area. It boils down to the group of people who are organized and trying to make it happen have already petitioned the NHL and they are in advanced negotiations towards what they believe is the inevitability of an NHL franchise coming to Quebec (returning to from their position). With Vegas being a lock and Seattle already as close as they are to getting a franchise I have to wonder if the NHL has plans in place to bring in 2 or more teams in two seasons. There is a ton of hopeful/speculation going on for sure but it does all speak to the real potential for further NHL expansion.
That would effect the CBA or parts of it if it were to happen (in some ways automatically) and would definitely shake up the league a bit as well.

 

[KINGS17]

The reference was to 23 roster players all being "better" than Mike Richards. There was no mention of the salary cap issue. However, you keep putting your almost, I would say, abnormal twist on things to "float your boat" if that makes you happy. And PS Mike Richards is, on his worst day, a better hockey player than a number of current roster players on their best day.

And put Nolan and Clifford opposite Kopitar or Carter and see how well their so called improved play does for Kopitar's and Carter's play. Wait, Sutter may well try that if they're that good.

If this were true, Richards would be playing games in a Kings' uniform right now. Richards being in the AHL has nothing to do with saving money or cap space as has been demonstrated time and time again in this thread.

Sutter has put Shore with Nolan and Clifford and those two guys have benefitted from that move tremendously, thank you very much Daryl. I think you discovered the problem the 4th line was having and have dealt with it.

 

[Herby]

A buyout goes against everything Dean stands for, but paying guy $5.75m to play in Manchester doesn't?

I am amazed that someone would argue that wasting that much cap space on an AHL player would be more optimal than a buyout where the money could be used on an NHL player. I can't believe someone actually typed that.

 

[Herby]

Richie10,

There is zero chance anyone takes him on with no retention unless the Kings include significant assets to go along with him. The overvaluing based on name continues, just like last summer when it would be a "ridiculous idea" to buyout Mike Richards because someone would clearly give the Kings atleast a draft pick for him during the season, even with that salary. How did that work out?

Oh noes! A player was left off the best team on the planet! So was Claude Giroux and a ton of other players. Man, you're reaching.

Dumb argument by Johnny, but lets be honest here. How many Team Canada's would they have to have for MR to make the team?

 

[YP44]

A buyout goes against everything Dean stands for, but paying guy $5.75m to play in Manchester doesn't?

I am amazed that someone would argue that wasting that much cap space on an AHL player would be more optimal than a buyout where the money could be used on an NHL player. I can't believe someone actually typed that.

I hope that DL is able to move him with retaining around $2M. The $2M caphit would be on LA's books a lot less time than a buy out would.

 

[KINGS17]

I hope that DL is able to move him with retaining around $2M. The $2M caphit would be on LA's books a lot less time than a buy out would.

Anything along these lines would be a tremendous victory for Dean at this point. The problem is the other team is going to want either a very significant roster player, or a very significant prospect(s)/pick(s) to make that trade.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Mike Richards' was on one of the top 2 lines on Team Canada 5 years ago with Toews and Iginla? Or what is it Iginla and Crosby?

How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Herby]

Anything along these lines would be a tremendous victory for Dean at this point. The problem is the other team is going to want either a very significant roster player, or a very significant prospect(s)/pick(s) to make that trade.

Yup. And like we have both said, the biggest obstacle in moving Richards is the term more than the compensation.Even teams like Edmonton and Buffalo who are awful now feel they will be back in contention by year 3 or 4 and don't want to be stuck with a $3.75m cap hit for whatever MR will be in 3-5 years, so they want to be compensated highly for their troubles.

I still think Toronto with the Kings retaining close to half the salary makes the most sense since the Leafs are probably going to be completely gutting it this summer and probably won't be contending for the life of MR's contract and the pick, prospect, young players they get from the Kings could be useful for their rebuild.

 

[damacles1156]

Toronto won't take that contract even at 50%. Unless the Kings add someone that can play right away. Forbort/Miller/Shore

Shanny just got rid of some bad contracts, also looking to rid the team of Dion/Kessel.

He is not going to want to muck up his cap by taking Richards, after he just fixed it.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Whether you guys believe it or not, John Hoven and Jon Rosen have reported over and over teams are STILL interested.

We don't know as much as they do.

I am sure teams like Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, etc. would be willing to take a Mike Richards at 2-3 million as a mentor in the rebuild. None of those teams have a legit #2 center, Calgary really doesn't even have a #1.

 

[damacles1156]

Jon Rosen also said Richards will play for the Kings again this season.

 

[damacles1156]

Whether you guys believe it or not, John Hoven and Jon Rosen have reported over and over teams are STILL interested.

We don't know as much as they do.

I am sure teams like Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, etc. would be willing to take a Mike Richards at 2-3 million as a mentor in the rebuild. None of those teams have a legit #2 center, Calgary really doesn't even have a #1.

You never heard of Sean Monahan ? You know the best young Center in the game not named Ryan Johansen.

You watch hockey at all Johnny ? Or just Hockey fights ?

Calgary has great Centers in Monahan/Hudler/Colborne. EDM is not desperate like people think, The local Bob Stauffer(paid by the EDM Oilers) said Mac T had this to say about Richards "Not interested, at all".

I don't care what Hoven says, he is wrong more times then he is right.

Toronto makes some sense at the Draft. But like I said, Shanny just is about righting his ship cap wise. He is going to want some very good Prospects(not Weal), and picks to take Richards.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Hudler plays wing too. I doubt Calgary wants to go with a centerman that young into the playoffs the next few years.

I just have a feeling someone will take Richards' if the Kings pay some of that salary.

 

[damacles1156]

Hudler plays wing too. I doubt Calgary wants to go with a centerman that young into the playoffs the next few years.

I just have a feeling someone will take Richards' if the Kings pay some of that salary.

That would have happened at the deadline(if teams were interested in just salary retained), Lombardi was offering 30% retained(rumored) plus a pick probably.

No one took it.

Also people keep bringing up EDM, they are not interested. Their GM even said so. Hell Mac T is not even sure he wants to resign Derek Roy, who has been the Oilers best Center since he got there.

 

[Fishhead]

That would have happened at the deadline(if teams were interested in just salary retained), Lombardi was offering 30% retained(rumored) plus a pick probably.

No one took it.

Uncertainty with the cap and the CDN. I bet most GM's are on edge, especially with taking on any sort of salary.