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Mike Richards III (Cleared waivers 1/27/15)

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Man these guys seem to be declining earlier and earlier. Its not like the olden days I guess. The game is faster and more physical than ever, with grueling schedules to go along with that. Our guys have played a ******** of hard hockey over the past 3 years, so its to be expected...
 
GREAT point. I've been thinking that for a while. Glad you mentioned it.

Kopitar deserves to get PAID, but I'm really onboard the five year deal train now.
 
damacles1156 said:
That I would agree with. Dustin Brown is starting to show signs of that as well.

So is Kopitar, if you ask me.

It's why NFL teams like to get rid of Running Backs at the age of 28/29.
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We really don't know, we can speculate and plenty of people have, from shoulder to knees to concussions to more fringe things (which I don't think is fair). But the truth is we really don't know. If any of these injury or other off-ice reasons for the collapse turn out to be true it wouldn't shock me, this has been such a strange case.

My personal opinion is MR lost a step, which isn't unheard of for guys in their late 20's but it basically ruined his game where it only slightly sets back others. You mentioned Kopi and I agree he isn't quite as explosive as he was at 23 or 24, but he is still an elite player even with losing a half step. Some guys are better able to adapt to old age and some aren't. Look at Reggie Wayne, the wheels finally came off this year, but he was able to transform himself to a different type of player and extend his career once he lost speed. Same thing with Steve Yzerman in the NHL. Whatever reason if there is one for Richards collapse, he clearly has been unable to adjust and he is out of the NHL because of it.
 
I will say that 29 is no longer prime years(I would argue). The age of 29+ being prime production, has been debunked in numerous studies.

Prime production is 24 to 28, passed that you are rolling the dice.

A man's body is in prime(fitness/Health) 28 to around 35 ? I believe. But that does not correspond to Hockey production.

Their are exceptions to ever study of course.
 
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I hope Mike figures out how to re-tool his game because we're sure going to need a solid Richards if we make the playoffs.
 
damacles1156 said:
I will say that 29 is no longer prime years(I would argue). The age of 29+ being prime production, has been debunked in numerous studies.

Prime production is 24 to 28, passed that you are rolling the dice.

A man's body is in prime(fitness/Health) 28 to around 35 ? I believe. But that does not correspond to Hockey production.

Their are exceptions to ever study of course.
Click to expand...

Oh trust me, I agree with you and have been saying as much on this board for years (ok well since 2010 when I became a Kings fan). That is why people are wrong when they say most players don't get developed and become NHL'ers until 25. And wrong when they call guys like Andreoff and Forbort "kids" when they will be 24 and 23 in a couple of months. Most really good NHL players are in the NHL before age 23.

What we are seeing with MR though is basically unheard of, to go from the level of play he was at in 2010 to the level we have seen the past year. It's as if he went from 27 to 39 overnight. I don't know what to make of it, it's basically something that has never happened.
 
Just looked at some guys who had enjoyed big success earlier in their careers and came crashing down to see at what age they started to decline.

Jonathan Cheechoo started to decline by 27 and was done with the NHL when he was 29.

After hitting 30, Dany Heatley's production declined dramatically.

Milan Michalek peaked at 27 and has also rapidly declined.

Here's one we're all familiar with. Alex Frolov started slowing down by the time he was 27, done with the NHL at 28.

Another guy currently on the roster who hit the wall in his late 20s is Jarret Stoll. He used to be good for 40+ points. Now his production has been cut in half. His steep drop in production started when he 29.

Now there are your freaks of nature who are the exception to the rule, guys like Brendan Shanahan, Daniel Alfredsson, Joe Sakic, Teemu Selanne, Jaromir Jagr all enjoyed productive seasons well into their mid-late 30s.

These guys were known for keeping themselves in excellent shape. I know Stoll is a fitness guy but with some of these average sized guys, I think the pounding their body takes from giving and receiving hits gradually wears down on them to the point that they can't produce at the pace they previously were able to reach when they were in their early-mid 20s.
 
Herby said:
Oh trust me, I agree with you and have been saying as much on this board for years (ok well since 2010 when I became a Kings fan). That is why people are wrong when they say most players don't get developed and become NHL'ers until 25. And wrong when they call guys like Andreoff and Forbort "kids" when they will be 24 and 23 in a couple of months. Most really good NHL players are in the NHL before age 23.

What we are seeing with MR though is basically unheard of, to go from the level of play he was at in 2010 to the level we have seen the past year. It's as if he went from 27 to 39 overnight. I don't know what to make of it, it's basically something that has never happened.
Click to expand...

To go along with what Damacles said peak flat-out point production years are actually early 20s too. But it's not surprising that guys become (generally) better all around players as they physically and mentally mature. But I would say that it's mostly the truly exceptional players that are excelling from their teens to early 20s, most will need to marinate until AT LEAST 20-21 like Toffoli/Pearson. And that's not counting defensemen--you use the example of Forbort and to me that's a perfect example of a guy who needs the time, especially since he didn't play years and years of juniors.

In Mike's case, he's got a lot of mileage and if he wasn't already a fitness nut it's tough to reverse the odometer, you're usually just forestalling father time at this point. And keep in mind a lot of the guys we mentioned above ARE extremely physical players...Richards obviously, Brown obviously, I'd argue Kopi is an EXTREMELY physical player in absorbing contact rather than hitting...and have played more hockey than anyone lately.

But also agreed with everyone that I'm not sure it's just one factor. We've covered at least 10 serious reasons in the various incarnations of this thread and it's likely a little bit of all of them.
 
Stoll is in great shape. He is 32 and going to turn 33. That's 4 years older than MR. He is 6'-1". Stoll throws the body, especially in the playoffs. He is great in the face-off circle (maybe not so much this year).

Lombardi has also said Stoll always has a teammate with him wherever he goes and he lives in LA year round. The community loves Stoll.

For those reasons above, the Kings value him more than Richards'...which they just proved two days ago.

Stoll has 1 less points than Richards' this year, but he is a +10, where MR was a -7. also, LA is paying Stoll 3.25 rather than 5.75 million.

I agree Stoll has declined, he used to be a 40 point guy, but he still has value, and at this point I would rather have him than Richards'...and so would Lombardi and Sutter.
 
I think Stoll is gone after this season. Paying Stoll anything more than 1.5 million is just not a good idea(for the Kings).

Stoll would not accept a contract that low(I think), he can still get 2.5 to 3 million on the open market.

To my knowledge (someone correct me if wrong) the Kings have had Zero talks with Stoll's agent about an extension.

I get the feeling (personal opinion) Lombardi is even thinking about exploring trade options with Williams.

Williams will never be worth(in the future), what he is right now. If the Kings dig themselves a bigger hole in February. Don't be surprised if Lombardi is a seller come deadline day.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to bring Stoll back. Matt Greene, four more years is looking like a disaster in year one of his contract.

Jarret Stoll hasn't scored 10 goals, or even 30 points since 2010-11. At some point the bottom six has to get productive for the Kings.

That Starts with younger, more skilled players like Shore/Weal. Also more cost controlled. At this point I would rather the Kings resign RR than Stoll.
 
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The problem is that if the Kings do get younger, they're going to need a guy to welcome them to L.A., make them feel welcome and teach then how to be a pros pro, and that's Stoll's mo. He's going to take less to be a King until he retires I'm willing to bet.
 
Lombardi has usually re-signed guys during the season. Mitchell, Williams. Gaborik and Regehr were a bit different, but that was because they were deadline acquisitions. Only signed Stoll and Penner after the Kings won the Cup. Same thing with keeping Greene and Richards after last year. If the Kings go out to SJ in 5 or something instead of coming back, I'm guessing the team looks different after that. When Lombardi has known guys were going to leave, like Scuderi and Mitchell, he's gone out and traded for Regehr and McNabb before those other guys left.

I'm guessing something similar happens this year. If we get to the end of February, and Williams, and Stoll, and Regehr aren't signed yet, and especially if the Kings are out of the playoffs, we'll see some changes.
 
Still think with MR it's concussions. Wear and tear on the body to some extent, but the game just looks too fast and he's a second slow in his decisions. He was once fantastic with the puck and now he can barely keep it on his stick. Just what I see. His decision making is a step or two behind and with his history of "Known" concussion, it's what one would see in that player. Especially a high end talent like MR.
 
The game has passed him by. He's not big, he's not physical anymore, he's not fast. He has above average hockey IQ and skills but that doesn't mean much of you can't keep up. If that was the case Rob Schremp would be in the NHL.
 
"That off-ice work ethic that Simmonds embraces and defines him is something Richards has continually been prodded to embrace, with varying success. As he told ESPN's Pierre Lebrun after Kings GM Dean Lombardi chose not to cut him loose last summer, "I think before, not that I didn't work hard, but I think I just took it for granted, where stuff was going on and you could skip a workout a day or two and not think it would be problem . . . "
Read more at

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...in_Flyers__hopes_on_.html#YXZcZz1ObXQ6jpq6.99
 
Well, that's the reality of the situation. I'd be asking for those assets too if I were one of the very select few teams even remotely interested in acquiring him because they know the Kings are screwed right now.

So if we're gonna believe the article:
Mike Richards and one of Toffoli/Pearson OR 1st round and a top prospect
for
one or two overpaid unwanted players AND the Kings have to retain part of Richards salary.

Yeah no thanks.
 
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