Player Discussion Mike Matheson (Part 2) - Shoot on target please Edition

[le_sean]

He's just become an easy target...I see very little praise for the good things he does and a lot of criticism for every single mistake he makes.

Before anyone gets hate horny, i'm not saying criticism isn't allowed. If the player makes a bad play, cool...criticize, but it doesn't have to color everything he does.

Personally, I've had way more of an issue with how Lane Hutson has played the last week than I have Matheson...but that's not vogue around here.


There's got to be a reason...because like I been saying, it's not normal that this is still a talking point at this stage.

Either way, we're not helping that narrative as is, so all good. I'll stop even making this a thing so that it is indeed, not a thing.

It’s way too heated right now so sorry about that. We can both move on.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's just become an easy target...I see very little praise for the good things he does and a lot of criticism for every single mistake he makes.

Before anyone gets hate horny, i'm not saying criticism isn't allowed. If the player makes a bad play, cool...criticize, but it doesn't have to color everything he does.

Personally, I've had way more of an issue with how Lane Hutson has played the last week than I have Matheson...but that's not vogue around here.


There's got to be a reason...because like I been saying, it's not normal that this is still a talking point at this stage.

Either way, we're not helping that narrative as is, so all good. I'll stop even making this a thing so that it is indeed, not a thing.

I'm with you on this. It's very strange and it seems to be done more with Quebec or Montreal players. There is a clear trend and even Carrier talked about it. He said sometimes, there is less pressure when you make less salary. He's not entirely wrong or right about that statement.

I think if were were to be fair about it (either side of the fence), we need to put down some actual context because the gut feel opinions are already known. It's time to quantify opinions with context. Makes too many mistakes is not good context when his usage is very high

All I will say is we will miss that elite level skating and puck moving when it's gone.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm not opposed to moving Matheson because I think he'd fetch quite a bit in return.

But I also don't think there's anyone currently in the organization whose going to step in to give you more steady play.

I just don't.

If you don't mind seeing the team take a step back...by all means, move him. But if you as a fan, are looking for more steady play, that's not an answer in the immediate.

...we don't need an immediate answer; we aren't anywhere near a true contender yet...for the growth of the team, moving Matheson is the right move...it's a hard move in the interim, but it's the right one...and if we can get a good haul for him now, all the more reason to do it, imo...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The same Matheson "haters" are going to migrate over to Lane Hutson hate whenever Matheson isgone,e and the novelty of Hutson has worn off and he's making 8M yr.

Bad take. Hutson makes us win , Matheson never did. He was just the leftovers of the Petry trade. We all seen Matheson how brutal he is defensively and how stupid he keeps shooting on players when he tries his garbage shot.

Matheson is no plan of the future. The only reason he's been Trending up it's because Hutson is carrying his ass on both ends. But yeah Matheson IQ on the ice is probably lower than the hospital room I'm sitting on.

Crazy how people defend so much a guy that did the same thing in Pittsburgh and Florida. The less he plays the better defensively this team gets. Simple as that.

Don't compare Hutson who back check and fight all boards and his not a turnover machine.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm with you on this. It's very strange.

I think if were were to be fair about it (either side of the fence), we need to put down some actual context because the gut feel opinions are already known. It's time to quantify opinions with context. Makes too many mistakes is not good context.

...you're getting context, a lot of it...just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it not there...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Giveaways is the most subjective stat ever.

Plus this doesn’t account for his dumb positioning. Are we forgetting the Detroit game where he just inexplicably laid down on the ice which gave the Red Wings an easy goal? Just one of a plethora of coverage mistakes he makes.

He also dumped the puck on a 3v3 because god knows

 

[Habs Halifax]

...you're getting context, a lot of it...just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it not there...

Opinion context yes. The context I prefer is stats. I found the giveaways/60. If you don't like that, show something else.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Opinion context yes. The context I prefer is stats. I found the giveaways/60. If you don't like that, show something else.

...you do understand that subjective stats aren't the Be All End All, right??...ask Kyle Dubas...

 

[Habs Halifax]

...you do understand that subjective stats aren't the Be All End All, right??...ask Kyle Dubas...

I do understand that but you can't ignore it entirely either. We have some posters who value Matheson and some who don't. A lot has been said and to get better evaluation, we need to dig into deeper than just the gut feel opinions. There is way too much deflating going on... way more than the pumping. This reeks like a "player target" to me.

I'm assuming you think Team Canada are idiots for considering Matheson to replace Pietrangelo?

Come on man, I'm sure you can find some stats? We don't have to dwell on it but they often can give you better context.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bad take. Hutson makes us win , Matheson never did. He was just the leftovers of the Petry trade. We all seen Matheson how brutal he is defensively and how stupid he keeps shooting on players when he tries his garbage shot.

Matheson is no plan of the future. The only reason he's been Trending up it's because Hutson is carrying his ass on both ends. But yeah Matheson IQ on the ice is probably lower than the hospital room I'm sitting on.

Crazy how people defend so much a guy that did the same thing in Pittsburgh and Florida. The less he plays the better defensively this team gets. Simple as that.

Don't compare Hutson who back check and fight all boards and his not a turnover machine.

The less Matheson plays, the less puck possession we have. It's very strange to dwell on his flaws and ignore his strengths. We got to take a more fair approach on this. It's hard to take anything serious when there is massive exaggeration being used to support an opinion.

If Matheson was as bad as you say, his turnovers/60 would be sticking out like a score thumb. You're not in the hospital for a score thumb are you? I'm kidding

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I do understand that but you can't ignore it entirely either. We have some posters who value Matheson and some who don't. A lot has been said and to get better evaluation, we need to dig into deeper than just the gut feel opinions. There is way too much deflating going on... way more than the pumping. This reeks like a "player target" to me.

I'm assuming you think Team Canada are idiots for considering Matheson to replace Pietrangelo?

Come on man, I'm sure you can find some stats? We don't have to dwell on it but they often can give you better context.

...stats have been posted here ad naseum, and again, the stats don't tell the whole story and are, in most cases, quite contextual...I poked at Dubas in my last post to highlight it; stats are A WINDOW but they aren't THE ONLY WINDOW into a player & how they fit in the team's entire structure...Matheson honestly no longer fits the Habs structure and their developement...don't hate the player, hate the game, as they say...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The less Matheson plays, the less puck possession we have. It's very strange to dwell on his flaws and ignore his strengths. We got to take a more fair approach on this. It's hard to take anything serious when there is massive exaggeration being used to support an opinion.

If Matheson was as bad as you say, his turnovers/60 would be sticking out like a score thumb. You're not in the hospital for a score thumb are you? I'm kidding

His strength is to skate and that's it. He even suck at holding the puck on the Blueline

 

[ahmedou]

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

 

[417]

...we don't need an immediate answer; we aren't anywhere near a true contender yet...for the growth of the team, moving Matheson is the right move...it's a hard move in the interim, but it's the right one...and if we can get a good haul for him now, all the more reason to do it, imo...

I'm not opposed to it, I just don't think the team has designs on intentionally making itself worse by trading a very useful and affordable player.

That might change in the next 12 months, but for now, I just don't see it.

It’s way too heated right now so sorry about that. We can both move on.

All good my man, it's never that serious! We disagree, throw a few barbs and then it finished.

But you know what's never finished?

Our love for the Montreal Canadiens. Now get over here and give me a virtual hug.

 

[417]

I'm with you on this. It's very strange and it seems to be done more with Quebec or Montreal players. There is a clear trend and even Carrier talked about it. He said sometimes, there is less pressure when you make less salary. He's not entirely wrong or right about that statement.

I think if were were to be fair about it (either side of the fence), we need to put down some actual context because the gut feel opinions are already known. It's time to quantify opinions with context. Makes too many mistakes is not good context when his usage is very high

All I will say is we will miss that elite level skating and puck moving when it's gone.

I don't doubt that players born in Quebec get is mor difficult than others here, especially when they make a lot of money.

But I don't think that's the issue at play here. This market has a tendency of not being able to appreciate two players who play similar roles (i.e. Hutson and Matheson) and tends to pit one against the other.

I think that's more of the issue here than the fact that Matheson is a local product.

Bad take. Hutson makes us win , Matheson never did. He was just the leftovers of the Petry trade. We all seen Matheson how brutal he is defensively and how stupid he keeps shooting on players when he tries his garbage shot.

Matheson is no plan of the future. The only reason he's been Trending up it's because Hutson is carrying his ass on both ends. But yeah Matheson IQ on the ice is probably lower than the hospital room I'm sitting on.

Crazy how people defend so much a guy that did the same thing in Pittsburgh and Florida. The less he plays the better defensively this team gets. Simple as that.

Don't compare Hutson who back check and fight all boards and his not a turnover machine.

Stopped reading here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, I knew this was coming! lol.

If feel for the guy... no way he is 100% ignoring the focus some fans have on him right now. Suzuki was not wrong... he's getting very high usage and it's we are going to see stuff like this. He's clearly trying very hard and having him play 25 min's a game is causing these blunders to show up more.

Since the beginning of last year he is 3rd in ice time. On the Pens, he was around 18 min's a game. He should be around 20 but what do we do? Who's going to take that load? He played 22:41 last night... It's very possible we are wearing him out and he is just not use to this load. Going from 18 to 25 from the Pens to the Habs is a very big jump.

If anybody needs this 4 nations cup break on our roster, it's Matheson and Suzuki

 

[Deebs]

Matty is in the same boat as Hutson, they both need a stabilizing partner to cover for their will to roam and be out of position. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is. Playing these guys together is not the answer and will eventually need to be addressed. Until then, we must live with the highs and lows and wait to solidify our backend

 

[morhilane]

It's pretty amazing that he managed to to stop the puck at the blue line.

 

[le_sean]

Must be a strange coincidence that Carrier has his worst game as soon as he is paired with Matheson and that Hutson all of a sudden has good defensive metrics.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's pretty amazing that he managed to to stop the puck at the blue line.

Matheson is playing so much that his skates get dull in just one period! haha

Would have been a great play if he was able to get his stick on it and move in in the zone to one of our players. Most guys in that situation would have not been able to keep it in the zone and their first reaction would have been to skate back knowing they couldn't keep it in.

I like the guy. He's got some flaws but I value what he provides and I do like the hard work he is putting into it. He's clearly trying very hard out there.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I wonder what the market would have been like if we'd sold high on him over the summer. Teams may have been dumb enough to be fooled by 60+ points on the top pair and offered up a decent package.

 

[Sorinth]

And it goes hand in hand with playing well and being revered by the fanbase. So if a player is confident in his ability, why not sign in Montreal where he’ll get noticed? Think of that shift at the end of the Devils game where the Habs blocked like 5 shots. The crowd went NUTS. That’s what intense fans do.

Given that you listed a bunch of top players having had it worse then Matheson it's clearly not a question of do well and be loved. And given Matheson's criticisms stem from him being put in the wrong chair because nobody else can handle it, it's not even about being confident in your abilities.

Fans can cheer and be intense without being bi-polar or as hateful as this fanbase can get.