Player Discussion Mike Matheson (Part 2) - Shoot on target please Edition

[417]

Great, never claimed otherwise. Matheson made a number of bad mistakes over the last few games, culminating in a terrible giveaway for the OT loss last game, so it's still being talked about.

Yes, because it's Mike Matheson.

If that was Lane Hutson, and believe me, at some point it will happen (if it hasn't happened before), no one will care because everyone loves Lane (for now) and that's cute.

But this weirdo Matheson hang up is one of the more bizarre narratives I've witnessed with this fanbase. Brisebois I understood, Desharnais totally understood.

All of it is bizarro behaviour, but understandable.

This one, is beyond me.

 

[le_sean]

Has absolutely nothing to do with me not being able to admit it, it's got to do with you or others not understanding the basic principle that players who play a lot and have the puck a lot, will make mistakes.

I swear, it's like some of y'all never ever watch other teams play.

Brother, they turned the puck over on a 3 on 3, the other team went back and scored.

The Habs have done the same to teams this season, it's happened and it's going to happen to the Habs and the Habs are also going to benefit from other teams making mistakes like that.

The fact it's dwelling in your mind like this, again, over a 3 on 3 goal is weird.

I’m not dwelling on anything, I just see the story being brought up and this being compared to Brisebois’ criticism and I think that’s f***ing hilarious. It’s nothing like that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

he's just not that good

Define "not that good"? Because that context matters.

He's an offensive top 4D with elite level skating in my books and his defensive game is meh. Nothing to pump or deflate. But I feel you will say he is the worse guy in the D zone in the entire NHL?

 

[le_sean]

And how many big named players have signed here over the last 20 or so years?

We had a pretty big summer in 2009. But the rest was due to money and taxes, that was well documented. We also had a GM unwilling to trade a 1st for a good player and thought Desharnais could win the Cup as 1C.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Yes, because it's Mike Matheson.

If that was Lane Hutson, and believe me, at some point it will happen (if it hasn't happened before), no one will care because everyone loves Lane (for now) and that's cute.

But this weirdo Matheson hang up is one of the more bizarre narratives I've witnessed with this fanbase. Brisebois I understood, Desharnais totally understood.

All of it is bizarro behaviour, but understandable.

This one, is beyond me.

Hutson got/gets plenty of shit for bad games and plays, including suggestions of AHL time. When has anyone ever said Matheson should get sent down to the A? Worst he gets is people saying he should be traded for a RHD since he's in over his head and he's pretty much redundant in the lineup.

 

[417]

I’m not dwelling on anything, I just see the story being brought up and this being compared to Brisebois’ criticism and I think that’s f***ing hilarious. It’s nothing like that.

Yeah, it's more bizarre...not only was Brisebois mistake prone and overpaid, he wasn't very good.

That's not the case with Matheson.

Hutson got/gets plenty of shit for bad games and plays, including suggestions of AHL time. When has anyone ever said Matheson should get sent down to the A? Worst he gets is people saying he should be traded for a RHD since he's in over his head and he's pretty much redundant in the lineup.

To the point media guys are addressing it in interviews days after the game/mistake?

I must have missed that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, because it's Mike Matheson.

If that was Lane Hutson, and believe me, at some point it will happen (if it hasn't happened before), no one will care because everyone loves Lane (for now) and that's cute.

But this weirdo Matheson hang up is one of the more bizarre narratives I've witnessed with this fanbase. Brisebois I understood, Desharnais totally understood.

All of it is bizarro behaviour, but understandable.

This one, is beyond me.

Well said. Posters feel like they can dwell on his mistakes and that's fair but some other fans can talk about what Matheson is great at as well. Habs fans always have a target and we are better than this. Some people don't understand that when you constantly look for a mistake, you will find them and you can apply that to anybody.

Yeah, I do agree that when Matheson and some of the other vets are gone, there will be new targets. Hutson is not immune to that. He can and he will create a mistake and if it costs us a game, the "expert fans" will come out to nit pick it like a hero. Today, he is our golden boy

I'm actually surprised that Gallagher is not targeted more then he is.

 

[Team_Spirit]

EP40 is now called EP40%
Zibanejad gets destroyed nightly

Every fanbase has their toxic fans and it's a numbers game.

Matheson should not look at SM they tell every player not to for a reason.

 

[417]

EP40 is now called EP40%
Zibanejad gets destroyed nightly

Every fanbase has their toxic fans and it's a numbers game.

Matheson should not look at SM they tell every player not to for a reason.

The two examples you provided are fans reacting to what they perceive as high paid players not providing the requisite effort (which I also think is lazy).

In Matheson's case, it's cause he's error prone?

Like give me a break man lol

 

[Habnot]

I’m not dwelling on anything, I just see the story being brought up and this being compared to Brisebois’ criticism and I think that’s f***ing hilarious. It’s nothing like that.

There has been a faction of the fan base that has had it for Matheson from the very start and I am not sure why. He's not overpaid, he a great pro, he's a local kid and has been playing 25+ minutes almost every night, playing all situations and now on his off side.

Is he a perfect player? No - but he does not deserve the hate that he has been thrown at him since he got here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hutson got/gets plenty of shit for bad games and plays, including suggestions of AHL time. When has anyone ever said Matheson should get sent down to the A? Worst he gets is people saying he should be traded for a RHD since he's in over his head and he's pretty much redundant in the lineup.

You're going to miss his puck moving and elite level skating when he is gone. . Matheson is not making more mistakes on the RD side vs the LD side. I think he as improved but our nit pick fan base refuses to see it because they are looking for a mistake

I do agree we have roster flaws with our D and it's been improved with adding Carrier. Matheson should be with Guhle on the 2nd pairing and Carrier should be with Xhekaj. Too bad Reinbacher is not ready for prime time with Hutson.

Growing pains.

There has been a faction of the fan base that has had it for Matheson from the very start and I am not sure why. He's not overpaid, he a great pro, he's a local kid and has been playing 25+ minutes almost every night, playing all situations and now on his off side.

Is he a perfect player? No - but he does not deserve the hate that he has been thrown at him since he got here.

Those fans refuse to let him grow and mature. It's very weird.

 

[Saundies]

The reactions are completely disproportionate to what actually happened on the ice and the eventual outcome.

Maybe if fans can't handle players making mistakes, they should switch to watching cribbage

Garbage take.

The reason Mike Matheson gets crapped on so much is because, for the position he has on this team and on the ice, he makes way too many mistakes. Simple as that. He's supposed to be a veteran defenseman, someone who knows better to keep things simple in tight situations, trying to pick his spots and not always make the complicated play and bring a calming presence to the blueline. To 'teach the kids how to play the right way.'

That's not what he does. Ever. He is the anti-steady. He's actually what people complained PK Subban was (and he wasn't, PK was a lot better defensively). He disregards defense and simple plays at every opportunity.

When we sucked, it didn't matter. He got his 62 points and made 321029830 turnovers and we finished where we finished. Now that we're trying to compete, however, each mistake is glaringly more noticable and costly.

Legitimate criticism of an underperforming player isn't weirdo behaviour, it's normal fan behaviour, especially from a fanbase that knows puck. Spamming him names on social media/other players/officially Habs accounts and media vile things, yeah, weirdo behaviour. But criticism? Nah. These guys get paid way too much money to be off-limits.

 

[Canadienna]

Nope no clue why he gets criticized. What an everlasting mystery. It must just be completely random and have no basis on his play. Just bizarre and entirely unexplainable. What a mystery.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There has been a faction of the fan base that has had it for Matheson from the very start and I am not sure why. He's not overpaid, he a great pro, he's a local kid and has been playing 25+ minutes almost every night, playing all situations and now on his off side.

Is he a perfect player? No - but he does not deserve the hate that he has been thrown at him since he got here.

What's with the obsession at targeting players from Quebec or Montreal? There needs to be a real study on that psychology

 

[Habs Halifax]

Garbage take.

The reason Mike Matheson gets crapped on so much is because, for the position he has on this team and on the ice, he makes way too many mistakes. Simple as that. He's supposed to be a veteran defenseman, someone who knows better to keep things simple in tight situations, trying to pick his spots and not always make the complicated play and bring a calming presence to the blueline. To 'teach the kids how to play the right way.'

That's not what he does. Ever. He is the anti-steady. He's actually what people complained PK Subban was (and he wasn't, PK was a lot better defensively). He disregards defense and simple plays at every opportunity.

When we sucked, it didn't matter. He got his 62 points and made 321029830 turnovers and we finished where we finished. Now that we're trying to compete, however, each mistake is glaringly more noticable and costly.

Legitimate criticism of an underperforming player isn't weirdo behaviour, it's normal fan behaviour, especially from a fanbase that knows puck. Spamming him names on social media/other players/officially Habs accounts and media vile things, yeah, weirdo behaviour. But criticism? Nah. These guys get paid way too much money to be off-limits.

Quantify your "too many mistakes" with context and how that compares to all the other top 4D in the NHL who play more than 20 min's a game.

Look at the giveaways/60 numbers and see how many guys are worse than Matheson on this list (link below). Yeah, the accuracy of those stats can vary but you can see a general trend. I am interested in seeing some actual context at this stage. If you have others, share and lets avoid a witch hunt with a preset agenda type research.

NHL Stats

 

[417]

Garbage take.

One deserves an other.

The reason Mike Matheson gets crapped on so much is because, for the position he has on this team and on the ice, he makes way too many mistakes. Simple as that. He's supposed to be a veteran defenseman, someone who knows better to keep things simple in tight situations, trying to pick his spots and not always make the complicated play and bring a calming presence to the blueline. To 'teach the kids how to play the right way.'

This is ridiculous. Being a veteran dman doesn't make one immune to making mistakes, especially not one who has the puck on his stick as much as Matheson does.

When you spend all game waiting for a player to make a mistake, every mistake becomes amplified, when in reality, the game of hockey is a game of mistakes that happen all over the ice.

That's not what he does. Ever. He is the anti-steady. He's actually what people complained PK Subban was (and he wasn't, PK was a lot better defensively). He disregards defense and simple plays at every opportunity.

When we sucked, it didn't matter. He got his 62 points and made 321029830 turnovers and we finished where we finished. Now that we're trying to compete, however, each mistake is glaringly more noticable and costly.

Legitimate criticism of an underperforming player isn't weirdo behaviour, it's normal fan behaviour, especially from a fanbase that knows puck. Spamming him names on social media/other players/officially Habs accounts and media vile things, yeah, weirdo behaviour. But criticism? Nah. These guys get paid way too much money to be off-limits.

Yes, especially when that's all ones waiting for.

OMG Mike Matheson doesn't play mistake free hockey, burn him at the stake.

Man please.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Garbage take.

The reason Mike Matheson gets crapped on so much is because, for the position he has on this team and on the ice, he makes way too many mistakes. Simple as that. He's supposed to be a veteran defenseman, someone who knows better to keep things simple in tight situations, try to make the complicated play and bring a calming presence to the blueline. To 'teach the kids how to play the right way.'

That's not what he does. Ever. He is the anti-steady. He's actually what people complained PK Subban was (and he wasn't, PK was a lot better defensively). He disregards defense and simple plays at every opportunity.

When we sucked, it didn't matter. He got his 62 points and made 321029830 turnovers and we finished where we finished. Now that we're trying to compete, however, each mistake is glaringly more noticable and costly.

Legitimate criticism of an underperforming player isn't weirdo behaviour, it's normal fan behaviour, especially from a fanbase that knows puck. Spamming him names on social media/other players/officially Habs accounts and media vile things, yeah, weirdo behaviour. But criticism? Nah. These guys get paid way too much money to be off-limits.

...very clear, concise, spot-on explanation of why Matheson gets heat; because the guy has no situational awareness...he does not play like a veteran; he chases offense, period...he was a serviceable stop-gap offensive Dman until another one came along to take the spot; now, Hutson is here & Guhle is a Top 4 guy so the left Top 4 is ready...whether Reinbacher is on track to take a Top 4 RD spot or not, Matheson's game is no longer a need for the Habs, so it's time to move on from him, imo...

 

[417]

...very clear, concise, spot-on explanation of why Matheson gets heat; because the guy has no situational awareness...he does not play like a veteran; he chases offense, period...he was a serviceable stop-gap offensive Dman until another one came along to take the spot; now, Hutson is here & Guhle is a Top 4 guy so the left Top 4 is ready...whether Reinbacher is on track to take a Top 4 RD spot or not, Matheson's game is no longer a need for the Habs, so it's time to move on from him, imo...

To move on to someone else i'm sure.

 

[Habnot]

One deserves an other.

This is ridiculous. Being a veteran dman doesn't make one immune to making mistakes, especially not one who has the puck on his stick as much as Matheson does.

When you spend all game waiting for a player to make a mistake, every mistake becomes amplified, when in reality, the game of hockey is a game of mistakes that happen all over the ice.

Yes, especially when that's all ones waiting for.

OMG Mike Matheson doesn't play mistake free hockey, burn him at the stake.

Man please.

That's my take also - the Matheson haters do not apply the same standards to other players on the team.

 

[Saundies]

One deserves an other.

This is ridiculous. Being a veteran dman doesn't make one immune to making mistakes, especially not one who has the puck on his stick as much as Matheson does.

When you spend all game waiting for a player to make a mistake, every mistake becomes amplified, when in reality, the game of hockey is a game of mistakes that happen all over the ice.

Yes, especially when that's all ones waiting for.

OMG Mike Matheson doesn't play mistake free hockey, burn him at the stake.

Man please.

You're really going to sit here on a hockey forum and try to say that nobody can say anything bad about players on your team because you happen to like them? Why are you here man? How did you make it through the Drouin/Scott Gomez years without flooding your town with your tears?

This isn't about not making ANY mistakes, it's the number and the context of the game in which they occur and how big their impacts are. Matheson cost us two goals last game. Plays he made directly led to the puck going into our net twice.

 

[417]

You're really going to sit here on a hockey forum and try to say that nobody can say anything bad about players on your team because you happen to like them?

That's funny, I said nothing of the sort

You conjured up that whole thing on your own.

Playscript writer ?

Why are you here man? How did you make it through the Drouin/Scott Gomez years without flooding your town with your tears?

Because I am.

This isn't about not making ANY mistakes, it's the number and the context of the game in which they occur and how big their impacts are. Matheson cost us two goals last game. Plays he made directly led to the puck going into our net twice.

Yeah the context here being 3 on 3 OT.

 

[le_sean]

Quantify your "too many mistakes" with context and how that compares to all the other top 4D in the NHL who play more than 20 min's a game.

Look at the giveaways/60 numbers and see how many guys are worse than Matheson on this list (link below). Yeah, the accuracy of those stats can vary but you can see a general trend. I am interested in seeing some actual context at this stage. If you have others, share and lets avoid a witch hunt with a preset agenda type research.

NHL Stats

Giveaways is the most subjective stat ever.

Plus this doesn’t account for his dumb positioning. Are we forgetting the Detroit game where he just inexplicably laid down on the ice which gave the Red Wings an easy goal? Just one of a plethora of coverage mistakes he makes.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

To move on to someone else i'm sure.

...meaning??...a player like Hutson requires some insulation defensively, it's pretty simple...Matheson does not have that in his game; it's not a personal knock on the guy, it's just a fact...even a Brandon Carlo-type would be a better partner for Hutson (and I'm no Carlo fan, I think he's a poor man's #4 at best)...you're not breaking up Guhle - Carrier cuz they've been really good together...so where do you go??...play him with Savard or Jackeye on the 3rd pairing??...why; our 3rd pairing does it's job...the issue comes down to our Top Pairing having a rookie PMD who's defensive game needs growth and Matheson, who's defensive game has ALWAYS needed growth...a recipe for disaster...and with just the sheer number of Dmen in the system, it's time to find another home for Mike Matheson...just the way it is, imo...

 

[Canadienna]

That's funny, I said nothing of the sort

You conjured up that whole thing on your own.

Playscript writer ?

OMG Mike Matheson doesn't play mistake free hockey, burn him at the stake.

I'm sure you wouldn't have made this up and then a post later tried to call out someone else for doing the same, so please quote the poster who said Mike Matheson must play mistake free hockey or else should be burned at the stake.

 

[le_sean]

I'm sure you wouldn't have made this up and then a post later tried to call out someone else for doing the same, so please quote the poster who said Mike Matheson must play mistake free hockey or else should be burned at the stake.

Can’t criticize the player making obvious mistakes, let’s criticize the fans who criticize the player. Energy and time well spent.