Mike Bossy was a better goal scorer than Wayne Gretzky

overpass

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Jun 7, 2007
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I've posted on this in a couple of threads before, and I thought I'd put it out there for discussion.

When it comes to discussing the greatest goalscorers, I've often seen Bossy dismissed in this forum because Gretzky was a better goal scorer in their era. I don't think that's true at all -- I have Bossy as clearly the better goal scorer.

I will concede that Gretzky was better at racking up regular season goals in a league where 16 of 21 teams made the playoffs and the first half of the regular season was basically training camp. But Mike Bossy was the greatest goal scorer of his era when the games counted.

From 1978-79 to 1982-83, Mike Bossy played 82 playoff games and scored 67 goals. From 1980-81 to 1985-86, Wayne Gretzky played 75 playoff goals and scored 62 goals. Basically identical. Also, in Challenge Cup and Canada Cup games in 1979, 1981, and 1985, Mike Bossy scored 15 goals in 18 games. Gretzky scored 13 goals in 24 Canada Cup games in 1981, 1984, and 1987. Bossy was the better goal scorer in these highly competitive games.

So Bossy and Gretzky were basically equal in their playoff goal scoring peak. Lets dig a bit deeper to find the differences.

Structure vs Chaos
Bossy and Gretzky were very different in the way they scored their goals. Bossy was a much better goal scorer in a structured game and against a set defence. Gretzky was the much better goal scorer in a chaotic game. This includes unusual situations like 4-on-4, 3-on-4, 4-on-3, etc. Games against low quality opponents. Scoring against the run of play when the opponent is leading.

Let's break down Bossy's 67 playoff goals from 1979-1983, and do the same for Gretzky's 62 playoff goals from 81-86.

Bossy vs Gretzky in their playoff peaks by situation, table 1

SituationMike BossyWayne GretzkyBossy/82Gretzky/82Difference
5-on-53324332626%
5-on-42714271576%
4-on-469610-39%
4-on-50505-100%
5-on-30000#DIV/0!
4-on-31212-54%
3-on-30202-100%
3-on-40303-100%
3-on-50000#DIV/0!
Empty Net0303-100%
Total67626768-1%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Bossy scored 26% more 5-on-5 goals than Gretzky in their playoff peaks. And he scored 76% more 5-on-4 goals than Gretzky in their playoff peaks! These are the most common scoring situations for 1st line scoring forwards, and Bossy was far more dangerous in these situations against playoff defences.

Gretzky scored a lot of goals in defensive situations, including penalty killing and when defending a lead against a team who pulled their goalie. He had 5 goals at 4-on-5, 3 goals at 3-on-4, and 3 empty net goals. Bossy had 0 goals in all these situations, because Al Arbour and the Islanders had very strong checking lines to play in these situations.

Gretzky was also very dangerous when both teams had 4 a side or less. He had 9 goals at 4-on-4, 2 goals at 4-on-3, 2 goals at 3-on-3, and 3 goals at 3-on-4, for a total of 16 of 62 goals scored with 3-4 skaters on each side! The NHL changed the rule after the 1985 season to have play stay at 5-on-5 after concurrent minor penalties, because Gretzky and the Oilers were so good in these situations that the Oilers intentionally tried to create 4-on-4 situations. Bossy had only 7 goals in these situations. We really see here how Gretzky was the better goal scorer in wide-open, chaotic situations.

Bossy vs Gretzky in their playoff peaks by situation, table 2

SituationWayne GretzkyAs a % of teamMike BossyAs a % of team
Game Tying Goals611.3%1020.0%
Go ahead goals1516.0%2621.0%
1st Period2621.1%2722.3%
2nd Period1916.2%2419.0%
3rd Period1612.7%1412.3%
3rd period of wins1413.1%1210.5%
3rd period of losses210.5%212.5%
Overtime120.0%214.3%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Because Bossy was the better goal scorer against set defences, he scored a higher percentage of his goals while the game was close. 36 of his 67 (54%) playoff goals from 78-79 through 82-83 either tied the game or put his team ahead. Gretzky only had 21 of his 62 (34%) playoff goals tie the game or put his team ahead.

You can also see by looking at scoring by period that both Bossy and Gretzky scored less in the third period. Bossy went from scoring around 20% of his team's goals in the first and second period, to only scoring 10.5% of his team's goals in the third period in games that his team won. I would attribute this drop to Al Arbour coaching to play it safe with the lead, giving more ice time to the checking lines and having the Trottier-Bossy line play it safe as well.

Gretzky's goal scoring also dropped in the third period of wins, but less so than Bossy's. Empty net goals are probably the difference. Third period goal scoring was among the biggest differences between Gretzky's regular season goal scoring and playoff goal scoring at his peak. He scored more goals in the third period than any other during the regular season -- probably picking up some cheap goals late in blowouts and taking advantage of his superior conditioning -- but his third period advantage went away in the playoffs.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Gretzky's goals in certain situations don't count. I'm saying that Bossy was a much better goal scorer against playoff defences in most game situations, and especially when games were close. Gretzky's advantages came in areas that could be taken away by rule changes (4-on-4 / 4-on-3 / 3-on-4), or by facing top defenders (for example, his SH scoring -- half his playoff SHG were against the Winnipeg Jets). Gretzky also got to play 5+ minutes more per game than Bossy and had the opportunity to score in defensive situations that Bossy never played in. When it came to winning games and winning Stanley Cups, Mike Bossy was the better goal scorer.
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Sorry but that's an impossible position to hold.

From 77-78 to 86-87 (ie Bossy's whole career)

Bossy 85 goals in 129 playoff games. 0.66 goals per game, or 54 goals per 82 games
Gretzky 69 goals over 101 playoff games. 0.68 goals per game, or 56 goals per 82 games.

Bossy 573 regular season goals in 752 games. 0.76 goals per game, or 62 goals per 82 games
Gretzky 543 goals in 632 games for 0.86 goals per game, or 70 goals per 82 games

Since Gretzky only started in 1979-1980 in the NHL - if instead of giving Bossy 2 full seasons advantage - we only compare seasons where they were head to head - so 1979-1980 to 1986-1987:

Gretzky 69 goals over 101 playoff games. 0.68 goals per game, or 56 goals per 82 games.
Gretzky 543 goals in 632 games for 0.86 goals per game, or 70 goals per 82 games

vs

Bossy 77 goals in 112 playoff games, 0.69 goals per game, or 56 goals over 82 games
Bossy 451 goals in 599 games 0.75 goals per game, or 62 goals per 82 games

In terms of head to head seasons:

1979-1980. Gretzky (rookie) ties Bossy 51 goals
1980-1981. Bossy 68, Gretzky 55. Clear win for Bossy. This is the only one.
1981-1982. Gretzky 92, Bossy 64.
1982-83. Gretzky 71, Bossy 60
1983-1984. Gretzky 87, Bossy 51.
1984-1985. Gretzky 73, Bossy 58
1985-1986. Gretzky 52 Bossy 61 - but should we even count this as a win when Gretzky said he was targeting 2 assists per game - and did score 160 assists? Seems pretty insane.
1986-87. Gretzky 62 goals, Bossy 38 (missed ~20 games).

Those are humongous wins by Gretzky - outside of his sophmore year, he beat him handily every single season, and usually by a lot - except for the one year where he went to get 160+ assists. And in every one of those seasons - Gretzky also led the league in assists, which cut into his goals scored.

Based on all of this - Gretzky is very very clearly ahead.

And of course - after 1986-87, Gretzky added 58 more playoff goals, 413 more regular season goals, and owns the record all-time in both cases.

No - Bossy has absolutely no argument at all over Gretzky for a goal-scorer.
 

Staniowski

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Jan 13, 2018
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Yes, there has never been any doubt in my mind that Bossy was a better goal-scorer than Gretzky.

And, at one time, this was the common opinion. In the early '80s, most people in the NHL definitely thought Bossy was the better scorer, even when Gretzky scored 92 goals in a season.

At that time, many people in the league thought Bossy was the best goal-scorer in NHL history.
-------------------
If you were watching a Canada Cup game in the early '80s, with Gretzky, Bossy, Krutov, Makarov on the ice.....I don't think there would've been a single person who didn't think that Gretzky was anything other than the 4th most dangerous goal-scorer among these 4 players.
-------------------
If you look at their seasons.....Bossy basically scored the same throughout his career, save for his injury-filled final season. Gretzky scored at the Bossy level only about 5 times. So, I think of their combined 13 best goal-scoring seasons, 8 of them are Bossy and 5 of them are Gretzky.

Gretzky's goal-scoring declined with his skating. Anybody can watch video and clearly see this. He wasn't really a natural when it came to scoring goals.

Gretzky also benefitted from more ice-time (I assume a lot more) in the early '80s, he scored a lot of SH goals (Bossy didn't score any), and Bossy played for a defensively-focussed team (although they had some excellent offensive talent).
 

MadLuke

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I see a good argument that Bossy was better at scoring goal during set play against set defense, but not much in the better at scoring goal, outside valuing goal scored during set play over those scored during 4v4 or PK.
 
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VanIslander

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Hockey is not an all-star game.
Bossy & Bourque can outshoot goalies all day long point blank. But...

Gretzky with the puck is a dual threat: a slapper somewhere you gotta react to, or a sudden perfect pass to a teammate in position to score.

Gretz has had success against Hasek (#1 goalie in career save %), due to shooting quick or dangling until he flops, then passes.

Gretzky is the GREATEST SCORING THREAT, to a goalie, 'cuz you dunno if he's gonna challenge you with a hard shot or a perfect pass.
 
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Yozhik v tumane

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I’ve also always sensed, before reading a lot on the HoH, that Bossy being the greatest goal scorer of the era held widespread consensus. Note: no one was saying Bossy was remotely as good a player as Gretzky, but we can keep track of two thoughts at once, can’t we?

No - Bossy has absolutely no argument at all over Gretzky for a goal-scorer.

He just posted a long OP making the case for Bossy over Gretzky for a goal scorer.

And then you posted a different timespan to compare their playoff goal scoring and Bossy still looked good next to Gretzky.

I’m not sure I’m all convinced, but overpass made some solid points.
 

MadLuke

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Gretz has had success against Hasek (#1 goalie in career save %), due to shooting quick or dangling until he flops, then passes.

Does he not have only 2 goals against him in is complete career (of just 12 games and just 27 shots but still... why say success ?)

Hasek save percentage against Gretzky was of 92.6% not off base. Maybe it change a bit including intl, but not Nagano.
 

overpass

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I see a good argument that Bossy was better at scoring goal during set play against set defense, but not much in the better at scoring goal, outside valuing goal scored during set play over those scored during 4v4 or PK.

Because Bossy was a better goal scorer against set defences, he was the better goal scorer in close games and against better teams.

When it comes to winning championships—in the playoffs or best on best international tournaments—goals in close games are more valuable than goals in blowouts, and goals against better teams are more valuable than goals against worse teams, because they are more likely to turn losses into wins.

You could say Gretzky was better at attacking the cracks and taking advantage of weaknesses as a goal scorer. But at the highest level there are fewer weaknesses to exploit. That’s why Gretzky was a playmaker first in the 1987 Canada Cup.
 
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VanIslander

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Gretz usually embarrassed Hasek by passing.

You weren't there MadLuke.

Crunch a stat to reflect that, if you could.
 

Midnight Judges

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Bossy's Islanders scored like 4+ goals per game during his career. It wasn't some offensively challenged system or anything, although they were excellent defensively.
 
All time goals

Midnight Judges

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Here's a bunch of goal scoring data.


Greatest Goal Scorers of all time
*As of 3/26/20Ovi*Brett MarioGretzBossyEspoBobby HoweRichard
Career Total Goals752741690894573717610801544
Career Tot. Goals Rank4511122618231
Career Tot. Adjusted (adj.) Goals857738616758461671644925653
Career Tot. Adj goals Rank2617463912110
Goal Scoring Titles933526755
Peak Season goals658685926976544950
Peak adjusted Season 727871695865576554
Peak Adjusted Season Rank (All time)2136454541384
Peak Season relative to next best of the era^^8.30%-6.5%-8%7%-25%10%8%4%2%
Same as above, adjusted^^5.9%10.0%-9.0%-12%-26%12.0%6.6%9.0%-17%
Lead over next best, 1st 5 yrs17.0%-15%6.8%21.0%19.0%-53%-3.3%-36%24.0%
Lead over next best, 1st 10 yrs40.0%2.8%11.0%41.0%6.0%-6.0%25.0%-11%53.0%
Lead over next best, 1st 15 yrs53.0%10.0%4.6%30.0%-23%45.0%30.0%9.0%40.0%
Lead over 10, first 5 seasons59.0%17.0%53.0%80.0%56.0%-6.0%22.7%15.0%77.0%
Lead over 10, first 10 seasons60.0%41.0%32.0%79.0%79.0%59.0%72.0%107%108%
Lead over 10, first 15 seasons86.0%44.0%35.0%70.0%31.0%85.0%105%149%166%
*As of 3/26/20Ovi*Brett MarioGretzBossyEspoBobby HoweRichard
Career GPG0.610.580.750.60.760.560.570.450.56
Career Adj GPG0.6920.5820.6730.5100.6130.5230.6060.5230.668
All time rank Adjusted GPG***162947573
**GPG lead over next best, 1st 5 yrs17%-16%11%18%-5%-50%-19%-34%22%
**GPG lead over next best, 1st 10 yrs13%-19%8%0%-12%-15%17%-13%41%
**GPG lead over next best, 1st 15 years15%-27%21%16%-4%-13%4%-9%16%
**GPG lead over 10, first 5 yrs45%36%44%60%44%0%19%9%50%
**GPG lead over 10, 1st 10 yrs50%45%49%52%38%41%47%55%68%
**GPG lead over 10, 1st 15 yrs52%28%64%34%41%44%61%60%87%
**Times Led NHL in GPG936315835
50 goal seasons856995501
Quanity of NHL 50 goal seasons in their 1st 15 yrs22789011068^301011
*As of 3/26/20Ovi*Brett MarioGretzBossyEspoBobby HoweRichard
% of 50 goal seasons / 1st 1536%6.40%6.70%8%13%16.7%50%0%100%
Adjusted 50 goal seasons1155525557
Playoff Goals65103761228561626882
Playoff GPG0.510.510.710.590.660.470.520.430.62
Playoff Adj. Goals68.598.86898.7164.7553.855.865.271.4
Playoff Adjusted GPG0.5350.4890.6360.4750.5020.4140.4690.4150.541
Playoff Adj. GPG Rank***351649782
**Minimum ~ half the games played
***Among the players on this list
^ 10 seasons only
^^ERA definition for each player (this varies depending on when scoring changed significantly)
^^Ovechkin: 2005-present
^^Bobby Hull: Just included pre-1967 expansion. Expansion would include Esposito's 76 goal season, but I don't think that was humanly possible pre-expansion
^^Esposito: I counted '67 to 79-80. Includes expansion but not the 1980s GPG explosion
^^Howe: For raw totals, didn't include Richard's '44-45 because NHL scoring differed too much
^^Richard: For adjusted and league wide, the sample includes Howe's '52.
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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MadLuke

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
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Gretz usually embarrassed Hasek by passing.
You weren't there MadLuke.
Crunch a stat to reflect that, if you could.

Buffalo Sabres at Los Angeles Kings Box Score — March 12, 1994 | Hockey-Reference.com
0 points, -2

Los Angeles Kings at Buffalo Sabres Box Score — December 17, 1993 | Hockey-Reference.com
0 points, -1

New York Rangers at Buffalo Sabres Box Score — December 13, 1996 | Hockey-Reference.com
2 assists, +1

Buffalo Sabres at New York Rangers Box Score — April 1, 1997 | Hockey-Reference.com
0 points, +0

New York Rangers at Buffalo Sabres Box Score — April 4, 1997 | Hockey-Reference.com
1 goals, -2

1 goals, 0 assists -2 in the 4 games in 97-98 season
0 points, -3 in the 98-99 season

That 2 goals, 2 assists, -9 in 12 games I think (I went manually and you can easily double check, used :
Gretzky's goals against Hasek, Roy, Brodeur..., has a reference for the games)
 

ContrarianGoaltender

Registered User
Feb 28, 2007
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I completely agree with the OP. Total goals is not the best measure of a goal scorer, and if we're talking about the most common goal scoring situations in hockey against everything but the worst opponents, Mike Bossy was pretty clearly better at beating goalies than Wayne Gretzky.

People love to post the total goal stats from that era as the trump card in this debate, but as @overpass points out, Gretzky's dominance only came in some very particular scenarios. Since we already got a detailed look at the playoffs, I'm going to focus mainly on the regular season in this post. There, Gretzky massively outscored Bossy while shorthanded (Bossy was not a regular PKer on Arbour's Isles), he easily outscored Bossy into empty nets, and outscored Bossy pretty significantly against the worst teams in the league (with many of those shorties and empty netters coming against the worst teams as well).

Let's take a range of years to compare the two, grabbing all of Bossy's career except his injury-plagued final one and then picking Gretzky's best equivalent 9 year stretch, to show these factors at play:

PlayerRangeGPTot GSHGENGG vs. WeakOppAll Other G
Bossy1978-1986689535714198316
Gretzky1981-19896955865932212283
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
(Note: Those goals scored numbers against bad teams are excluding shorthanded and empty net goals, to avoid double counting. If you're interested in the specific splits, Gretzky had 28 SHG and 13 EN against my weak opponent sample, while Bossy had 5 and 7 respectively, which means that the bad team differential overall accounts for 43 of the 51 goal difference between them).

Personally, I try to compare as fairly as possible across eras, and when it comes to goal scorers in particular I think there are two main problems with SH and EN scoring: 1. They aren't consistent historically, and 2. Not all elite goal scorers are even used in those scenarios. The 1980-2000 era had very high SH scoring, particularly among star players relative to other eras, and many elite goal scorers didn't kill penalties, either because of coach's choice or because they weren't good defensively (something that has really nothing to do with their ability to score goals). Similarly, ENG were quite rare in the Original 6 but have exploded over the last 4 decades, with some elite goal scorers racking up a lot of them and some scoring very few depending on their deployment.

So how does it look without these situations, and without including all those relatively meaningless goals against the worst opponents in the league? Here is a season-by-season breakdown of how both Bossy and Gretzky rank in terms of ES+PP goals scored on an actual goalie against non-weak teams (which I'm currently defining as all teams with a Hockey Reference SRS rating of -0.25 or better):

Goal Scoring Comparison (minus EN/SH/WeakOpp):

BossyBossyBossyGretzkyGretzkyGretzky
SeasonGPGGPGGPGGPG
197845300.6700-
197949440.9000-
198040260.6543180.42
198151420.8252360.69
198256340.6146461.00
198351400.7854380.70
198441320.7840340.85
198543270.6351370.73
198658410.7147190.40
198744230.5256350.63
198800-36150.42
198900-52230.44
199000-54230.43
199100-47190.40
TOT4783390.715783430.59
Best 41881440.771911550.81
Next 62901950.672931500.51
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
It turns out that even Gretzky's peak advantage disappears almost entirely in this comparison. This also explains why Bossy was just as good if not better in the playoffs or in high-level international competition, because Bossy had always been just as good if not better against the best teams in the league in the most common goal scoring situations in hockey.

It seems like there is a real swing against Bossy lately on these boards, but I think that's a huge mistake. It is correct that other players in history have better goal scoring stats, but in my opinion Bossy is still among the elite goal scorers of all-time if you look at the things that should matter most (like scoring goals on an actual goalie against strong defences in big games).
 

Staniowski

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Seriously....not many years ago, I didn't even realize there were any hockey people who thought Gretzky was a better goal-scorer than Bossy, outside of a very small minority. Now, it seems like almost everybody of younger generations thinks this.

In the 1980s, the large majority thought Bossy was the better goal-scorer....and, among smart hockey people, virtually everybody.

Bossy's game was ultra-adaptable to any situation, to any level of hockey. He was focused and very intelligent.
 

jigglysquishy

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Jun 20, 2011
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I guess it really comes down to the semantics of best pure goal scorer in a vacuum or best goal scorer in general.

Gretzky was putting up 1.5 assists/game while outgoaling Bossy. If the challenge was for Gretzky to ignore assists, does anyone doubt he could hit 100 or 110 in the early 80s?

There was no better offensive threat than Gretzky and we sometimes miss the forest for the trees.
 

johan f

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Jun 23, 2008
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In all of the text above one excuse for Bossy is that he did not play pk that much. It is just plain wrong holding that against Gretz. It was like it was and they scored like they did. All those ifs are so childish.
 

tabness

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Apr 4, 2014
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Gretzky and Bossy situational goal scoring

blowout: goal scored means leading by 4 or more
insurance: goal scored means leading by 2 or 3
go ahead: goal scored means leading by 1
tie: goal scored means game tied
comeback: goal scored means trailing by 1
rally: goal scored means trailing by 2 or more
first: first goal of the game
second: second goal of the game

Code:
1980 51 total
blowout:  6 11.76%
insurance:  12 23.53%
go ahead:  8 15.69%
tie:  12 23.53%
comeback:  7 13.73%
rally:  6 11.76%
first:  2  3.92%
second:  7 13.73%

1981 51 total
blowout:  12 23.53%
insurance:  9 17.65%
go ahead:  10 19.61%
tie:  9 17.65%
comeback:  6 11.76%
rally:  5  9.8%
first:  4  7.84%
second:  3  5.88%

1982 92 total
blowout:  18 19.57%
insurance:  30 32.61%
go ahead:  24 26.09%
tie:  13 14.13%
comeback:  5  5.43%
rally:  2  2.17%
first:  7  7.61%
second:  9  9.78%

1983 71 total
blowout:  13 18.31%
insurance:  20 28.17%
go ahead:  16 22.54%
tie:  9 12.68%
comeback:  7  9.86%
rally:  6  8.45%
first:  3  4.23%
second:  6  8.45%

1984 87 total
blowout:  24 27.59%
insurance:  30 34.48%
go ahead:  15 17.24%
tie:  5  5.75%
comeback:  7  8.05%
rally:  6  6.9%
first:  8  9.2%
second:  5  5.75%

1985 72 total
blowout:  14 19.44%
insurance:  19 26.39%
go ahead:  23 31.94%
tie:  10 13.89%
comeback:  3  4.17%
rally:  3  4.17%
first:  12 16.67%
second:  8 11.11%

1986 52 total
blowout:  6 11.54%
insurance:  24 46.15%
go ahead:  8 15.38%
tie:  6 11.54%
comeback:  4  7.69%
rally:  4  7.69%
first:  2  3.85%
second:  7 13.46%

1987 61 total
blowout:  7 11.48%
insurance:  31 50.82%
go ahead:  10 16.39%
tie:  6  9.84%
comeback:  5  8.2%
rally:  2  3.28%
first:  5  8.2%
second:  9 14.75%

Code:
1978 51 total
blowout:  10 19.61%
insurance:  10 19.61%
go ahead:  20 39.22%
tie:  4  7.84%
comeback:  4  7.84%
rally:  3  5.88%
first:  13 25.49%
second:  2  3.92%

1979 67 total
blowout:  13  19.4%
insurance:  27  40.3%
go ahead:  11 16.42%
tie:  9 13.43%
comeback:  4  5.97%
rally:  3  4.48%
first:  6  8.96%
second:  14  20.9%

1980 51 total
blowout:  8 15.69%
insurance:  15 29.41%
go ahead:  14 27.45%
tie:  6 11.76%
comeback:  3  5.88%
rally:  5  9.8%
first:  5  9.8%
second:  5  9.8%

1981 63 total
blowout:  10 15.87%
insurance:  29 46.03%
go ahead:  13 20.63%
tie:  9 14.29%
comeback:  2  3.17%
rally:  0  0%
first:  8  12.7%
second:  11 17.46%

1982 62 total
blowout:  9 14.52%
insurance:  29 46.77%
go ahead:  11 17.74%
tie:  5  8.06%
comeback:  8  12.9%
rally:  0  0%
first:  1  1.61%
second:  6  9.68%

1983 60 total
blowout:  8 13.33%
insurance:  17 28.33%
go ahead:  20 33.33%
tie:  9  15%
comeback:  5  8.33%
rally:  1  1.67%
first:  12  20%
second:  5  8.33%

1984 50 total
blowout:  5  10%
insurance:  21  42%
go ahead:  11  22%
tie:  9  18%
comeback:  3  6%
rally:  1  2%
first:  4  8%
second:  9  18%

1985 57 total
blowout:  8 14.04%
insurance:  18 31.58%
go ahead:  13 22.81%
tie:  12 21.05%
comeback:  2  3.51%
rally:  4  7.02%
first:  7 12.28%
second:  9 15.79%

1986 57 total
blowout:  9 15.79%
insurance:  19 33.33%
go ahead:  9 15.79%
tie:  10 17.54%
comeback:  6 10.53%
rally:  4  7.02%
first:  4  7.02%
second:  5  8.77%

1987 38 total
blowout:  3  7.89%
insurance:  7 18.42%
go ahead:  10 26.32%
tie:  10 26.32%
comeback:  7 18.42%
rally:  1  2.63%
first:  3  7.89%
second:  6 15.79%

Gretzky definitely got a lot of goals and points on blowouts, but he still scored so much that his top goal scoring seasons still see him with high goal totals of what would be considered the most important goals (tying and go ahead). To be honest Bossy scored quite a bit in blowouts himself...

Total tying/go ahead goals as compared to total goals

Gretzky
1980: 20/51
1981: 19/51
1982: 37/92
1983: 25/71
1984: 20/87
1985: 33/72
1986: 14/52
1987: 16/61

184 total

Bossy:
1978: 24/51
1979: 20/67
1980: 20/51
1981: 21/63
1982: 16/62
1983: 29/60
1984: 20/50
1985: 25/57
1986: 19/57
1987: 20/38

214 total
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
19,207
14,503
It's some interesting data. Something to consider is how often people describe Bossy as a "natural goal scorer" or a "pure goal scorer". These things don't really have explanations (and certainly some of Bossy's goal scoring reputation comes from his GPG, which benefits from era and early retirement) but I think that the OP highlights a lot of what people mean when they say this. I think it's highly possible that Bossy's goal scoring was more transferrable than Gretzky's - put him anywhere, any time and he's going to score a lot of goals. Gretzky is going to generate offence no matter what, and he'll generate more offence than Bossy will in the end, but the conditions he plays in might mean that he needs to shift to passing more and shooting less. My sense is that guys like Bossy, Ovechkin, and Hull are going to score goals in droves in any environment - rocket shots (the most useful weapon for goal scoring, though Bossy was somewhat more accurate than powerful) and a mindset based on shooting, among other things. A guy like Gretzky or Esposito may be more environmental in terms of when they score, with their offensive equilibrium changing according to who they play with and against, even if they will produce a ton of offence regardless.

Was Bossy a better goal scorer than Gretzky? Maybe, though I lean toward him not being a better goal scorer in the 80s given that Gretzky frequently outscored him while still functioning as a dominant playmaker. To be fair to Bossy, he was also a great goal scorer even when he took on more of a playmaking role with Sutter as his centre in place of Trottier. I'm not sure that Gretzky would be the better goal scorer in every other environment (late era O6 hockey or the DPE for example) or even most other environments.
 

Nathaniel Skywalker

DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
Oct 18, 2013
14,237
5,891
Sorry but that's an impossible position to hold.

From 77-78 to 86-87 (ie Bossy's whole career)

Bossy 85 goals in 129 playoff games. 0.66 goals per game, or 54 goals per 82 games
Gretzky 69 goals over 101 playoff games. 0.68 goals per game, or 56 goals per 82 games.

Bossy 573 regular season goals in 752 games. 0.76 goals per game, or 62 goals per 82 games
Gretzky 543 goals in 632 games for 0.86 goals per game, or 70 goals per 82 games

Since Gretzky only started in 1979-1980 in the NHL - if instead of giving Bossy 2 full seasons advantage - we only compare seasons where they were head to head - so 1979-1980 to 1986-1987:

Gretzky 69 goals over 101 playoff games. 0.68 goals per game, or 56 goals per 82 games.
Gretzky 543 goals in 632 games for 0.86 goals per game, or 70 goals per 82 games

vs

Bossy 77 goals in 112 playoff games, 0.69 goals per game, or 56 goals over 82 games
Bossy 451 goals in 599 games 0.75 goals per game, or 62 goals per 82 games

In terms of head to head seasons:

1979-1980. Gretzky (rookie) ties Bossy 51 goals
1980-1981. Bossy 68, Gretzky 55. Clear win for Bossy. This is the only one.
1981-1982. Gretzky 92, Bossy 64.
1982-83. Gretzky 71, Bossy 60
1983-1984. Gretzky 87, Bossy 51.
1984-1985. Gretzky 73, Bossy 58
1985-1986. Gretzky 52 Bossy 61 - but should we even count this as a win when Gretzky said he was targeting 2 assists per game - and did score 160 assists? Seems pretty insane.
1986-87. Gretzky 62 goals, Bossy 38 (missed ~20 games).

Those are humongous wins by Gretzky - outside of his sophmore year, he beat him handily every single season, and usually by a lot - except for the one year where he went to get 160+ assists. And in every one of those seasons - Gretzky also led the league in assists, which cut into his goals scored.

Based on all of this - Gretzky is very very clearly ahead.

And of course - after 1986-87, Gretzky added 58 more playoff goals, 413 more regular season goals, and owns the record all-time in both cases.

No - Bossy has absolutely no argument at all over Gretzky for a goal-scorer.
Gretzky didn't simply score in the Bossy level which was in the 60s Gretzky scored in the 80s and 90s worlds difference. They played at the same time. One guy scored 70 87 and 92 the others career high was 68. That's way too big of a gap even if Bossy was the more consistent goal scorer as gretzkys goal scoring did drop off a cliff. His peak however is too high too ignore against bossy
 

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