Mikael Granlund

[Selannne]

Maybe Granlund could do better offensively in another Nhl team? Wild playing a pretty deffensive hockey,right?

Many players production has decreased a bit when they been traded to Wild...

For example: Heatley,Pominville,Setoguchi,Vanek,Parise.

Best scorer this year,Koivu with 56 points,last year Parise with 62.

 

[moon*]

So is Erik Karlsson not elite because he didn't show up on the score board against CAN?

Is Patrik Kane not elite because he didn't do jack against CAN?

Is Tavares not elite just because he didn't get a point against Finland?

Granny had 7 points in 6 games in a best on best competition. Still too small of a sample size. But in the WHC, he has 28 pts in 31. That is pretty darn good. But I do understand where you are coming from. Either way, we should come back to this discussion once the World Cup is over. I hope he does very well.

Erik Karlsson isn't elite for a lot of reasons but that is a different discussion.

The thing with those guys is that they have many other instances ie their NHL play where we can point to them being elite.

In this discussion the point is that Granlund is not elite in the NHL but should be overall considered elite because of his international play. So therefore he does not get the benefit of the doubt because the argument is based around solely his international play. If we are going to raise up his level based on his international play alone then he is going to be held to a higher standard than guys who have shown elite level play at the NHL level.

 

[Mestaruus]

Is that going to happen? I did saw reporting on the Finnish media of the matter being brought up somewhat jokingly in the post-season talks between the two, but do they now have a spare center to actually pull it off? I remember there was a haste to start using him as a center when he joined the team despite him still being clearly a winger at the time.

It was just my feeling about it. You could be right. I'd love to see him as winger more in Minnesota and see what happens.

 

[illone84]

Erik Karlsson isn't elite for a lot of reasons but that is a different discussion.

The thing with those guys is that they have many other instances ie their NHL play where we can point to them being elite.

In this discussion the point is that Granlund is not elite in the NHL but should be overall considered elite because of his international play. So therefore he does not get the benefit of the doubt because the argument is based around solely his international play. If we are going to raise up his level based on his international play alone then he is going to be held to a higher standard than guys who have shown elite level play at the NHL level.

I agree with you. But I do honestly believe that he can make a case for being an elite international player, but not an elite nhl player-obviously. Can we agree that he is a very good international player and good 2 way player overall?

Either way, it's good to see that he finally played a full 82 nhl season, and has looked good in the playoffs every time he has participated in them. Otherwise, a new (offensive minded) coach should help Granny reach a 60-70 pt season for the first time. Is that elite? Definitely not. But definitely above average.

 

[moon*]

I agree with you. But I do honestly believe that he can make a case for being an elite international player, but not an elite nhl player-obviously. Can we agree that he is a very good international player and good 2 way player overall?

Either way, it's good to see that he finally played a full 82 nhl season, and has looked good in the playoffs every time he has participated in them. Otherwise, a new (offensive minded) coach should help Granny reach a 60-70 pt season for the first time. Is that elite? Definitely not. But definitely above average.

I agree he is a very good international player. I don't think he is elite and certainly don't think he is good enough that it should trump what he shows at the NHL level.

He is a good secondary player and a guy I would love to add to my team.

 

[Jopo]

I agree he is a very good international player. I don't think he is elite and certainly don't think he is good enough that it should trump what he shows at the NHL level.

He is a good secondary player and a guy I would love to add to my team.

Yep. There will be room for Granlund in Finland's national team quite long time, for sure. He is future leader and solid core player, regardless of his NHL curriculum. It's almost a norm that some best leaders in Team Finland have no glorious and flashy NHL careers. In context of International tournaments it's no brainer to claim he wouldn't be "elite" (what ever that means), if looking his contributions for/within team Finland. He have necessary skills, attitude, and most importantly, the heart when wearing Blue-White jersey.

Finns love that heart.

I think Granny has given many good hints to Patrik about how to handle with extreme media hype, based on his own experiences. Example of things that hopefully increase his future role further within National teams, when new Finnish generation is marching to the front lines on a rink.

 

[Lapa]

The reason Granlund has good stats in international tournaments is because he plays for Finland. If he were to play for Canada he'd get maybe 5 minutes a game and I can promise you with that kind of time he'd never produce the stats he does. Also, beating up on Norway, and shooting out with Austria hardly makes one a star, neither for that matter does being successful at the WHC. People were giving the US so much crap about "the skill level is too high at the WHC for you to bring a college team, you'll get relegated" and lo and behold they're playing in the Semi-finals...he's beating up on teams, 12 of which are worse than the proverbial college team, so hyping him as underrated...you provide a 14 game sample when there is a what, 166 game sample of NHL games? He can improve but he's not underrated...

So.. If Granlund played for a different team, lost his PP ice time and most of his regular ice time, he wouldn't produce as much as he does now?

Wow, what an absolute shock.

Granlund has been very effective on the big ice:

28 points in 31 games in the WHC
7 points in 6 games in the Olympics
8 points in 9 games in the EHT

The guy succeeds in every level of international hockey, and you're not impressed because he also produces against the weaker teams?

 

[kabidjan18]

So.. If Granlund played for a different team, lost his PP ice time and most of his regular ice time, he wouldn't produce as much as he does now?

Wow, what an absolute shock.

Granlund has been very effective on the big ice:

28 points in 31 games in the WHC
7 points in 6 games in the Olympics
8 points in 9 games in the EHT

The guy succeeds in every level of international hockey, and you're not impressed because he also produces against the weaker teams?

Put in his position every member of team Canada A would produce the same or better. So the notion that he could somehow make the Canada A team is ridiculous. I'm not sure what you're trying to stuff I to my mouth but he would not make Canada A...

 

[Jopo]

I'm sure Granny has never felt any interest to "make it" in Canada's national team, instead it's plain clear he did 'it' in and with Finnish teams.

Doing it currently - de facto - in this tournament too, btw. (tsk tsk)

 

[VictorLustig]

Only Russia and Canada bring teams that are better than the average NHL team. Granlund is playing mostly against AHL level talent internationally, that's where he excels but it doesn't make him a superstar.

 

[Lapa]

Put in his position every member of team Canada A would produce the same or better. So the notion that he could somehow make the Canada A team is ridiculous. I'm not sure what you're trying to stuff I to my mouth but he would not make Canada A...

You said: Granlund wouldn't produce as much as he does if he played for Team Canada and had 5 minutes of ice time.

The whole "How good would Granlund do on team Canada" thing is weird to me. Why would Granlund even be on Team Canada? He's playing really well for Team Finland, I don't give a crap if he could make Team Canada's A team or not.

 

[Jopo]

Only Russia and Canada bring teams that are better than the average NHL team. Granlund is playing mostly against AHL level talent internationally, that's where he excels but it doesn't make him a superstar.

Maybe so, but still it's not right thing to underestimate his meaning for The Team, that, traditionally, historically and by the rulebook is that entity who win or lose a hockey game. Team player he is, and such kind, who increase his team's overall performance.

And that's not hypotetic thing at all, his team contributions are already undeniably proved/still proving that. Either downplaying him in these forums or underestimating him on the ice is not wise thing to do. By anyone.

Integral part of Team Finland. No ways to go around that fact, regardless of motives of critics or NHL score sheets.

 

[kabidjan18]

You said: Granlund wouldn't produce as much as he does if he played for Team Canada and had 5 minutes of ice time.

The whole "How good would Granlund do on team Canada" thing is weird to me. Why would Granlund even be on Team Canada? He's playing really well for Team Finland, I don't give a crap if he could make Team Canada's A team or not.

Exactly, he wouldn't, even you admitted that. And thanks for your smartness but the question was posed and it's absurd and some of the brothers been answering the question if you don't like the question don't address don't get on brothers for trying to address a stupid question.

 

[Lapa]

Exactly, he wouldn't, even you admitted that. And thanks for your smartness but the question was posed and it's absurd and some of the brothers been answering the question if you don't like the question don't address don't get on brothers for trying to address a stupid question.

You said Granlund wouldn't produce as much if he played 5 minutes per game for Team Canada. That's what usually happens when your ice time takes a big hit. Your production takes a hit as well.

Granlund probably wouldn't make Team Canada's A team, as that team is just ridiculously stacked. But I don't really care, because he plays for Finland and is doing a hell of a job.

 

[MMANumminen]

Granny is a top 10 center in the world. If he struggles in the money league it is not so important. To show up at important games is what matter

 

[kabidjan18]

You said Granlund wouldn't produce as much if he played 5 minutes per game for Team Canada. That's what usually happens when your ice time takes a big hit. Your production takes a hit as well.

Granlund probably wouldn't make Team Canada's A team, as that team is just ridiculously stacked. But I don't really care, because he plays for Finland and is doing a hell of a job.

Bruh, someone needs to get this brother some glasses, seriously. You just agreeing with me over and over so what's your point like do you think I don't get what I'm saying? I addressed a question posed, with an obvious statement that was meant to be obvious because the answer to the original question was obvious. Man, I had nearsight as a kid too, glasses help...

 

[Lapa]

Bruh, someone needs to get this brother some glasses, seriously. You just agreeing with me over and over so what's your point like do you think I don't get what I'm saying? I addressed a question posed, with an obvious statement that was meant to be obvious because the answer to the original question was obvious. Man, I had nearsight as a kid too, glasses help...

My bad, thought you were making a different point with that statement.

 

[llwyd]

You said Granlund wouldn't produce as much if he played 5 minutes per game for Team Canada. That's what usually happens when your ice time takes a big hit. Your production takes a hit as well.

Granlund probably wouldn't make Team Canada's A team, as that team is just ridiculously stacked. But I don't really care, because he plays for Finland and is doing a hell of a job.

And there is the little thing that we can actually compare him with Canada's top scorers in this tournament. And so far he has outperformed them, and has faced equal opponents (well, instead of Finland, he played against Canada but otherwise pretty much). No matter if he wouldn't be in the Canadian team at all. Just thought to mention this detail...

 

[kabidjan18]

My bad, thought you were making a different point with that statement.

Lol, it happens, it's good. I like him as a player just team Canada A? Nah...he does his job at Finland just fine though.

 

[Luca]

Granny is a top 10 center in the world. If he struggles in the money league it is not so important. To show up at important games is what matter

Lol! He has few decent (nyt meaningless) games against Denmark and Kenya or something like that and he is top 10 center (been winger) in world?? NHL is where stars are made not b level tournaments!

 

[llwyd]

Lol! He has few decent (nyt meaningless) games against Denmark and Kenya or something like that and he is top 10 center (been winger) in world?? NHL is where stars are made not b level tournaments!

Well, I can think of at least one player who really was among the best on big ice but not in the NHL, Saku Koivu. His record from best-on-best tournaments is stellar. Granlund is a similar case (I'm not saying that he would be on the level of Koivu, but similar) - he truly is great on big ice but seems to be just better than average on the small ice. Is that such an awful thing to admit?

 

[MMANumminen]

For me NHL is just audition for competing a spot for national team

 

[MNRube]

He's been miscast as a C. Way too much responsibility for him in the Western Conference. Like Coyle he is much better on the W which is why it is so imperative the Wild acquire a top 6 C to go with Koivu and Haula.

 

[kabidjan18]

And there is the little thing that we can actually compare him with Canada's top scorers in this tournament. And so far he has outperformed them, and has faced equal opponents (well, instead of Finland, he played against Canada but otherwise pretty much). No matter if he wouldn't be in the Canadian team at all. Just thought to mention this detail...

Sigh, it seems everyone is in agreement on this but you. It's not even the opponent. I've mentioned and you've neglected over and over to address the fact that his minutes if he were on team Canada would be very minimal. Not only that, people wouldn't look to pass to him over the Canadian players. He would get much less ice time and much less in the way of looks from teammates.

As I said, Michael Grabner, a bunch of minutes a game, much more than he'd get playing for Canada; powerplay minutes and teammates always looking for him, when he outscored all the Canadians in Sochi can we say he was better than all the Canadian players in Sochi? I even brought up a soccer example for you and you ignored it. So no, when you prove something we might start listening.

 

[Jopo]

Sigh, it seems everyone is in agreement on this but you. It's not even the opponent. I've mentioned and you've neglected over and over to address the fact that his minutes if he were on team Canada would be very minimal. Not only that, people wouldn't look to pass to him over the Canadian players. He would get much less ice time and much less in the way of looks from teammates.

As I said, Michael Grabner, a bunch of minutes a game, much more than he'd get playing for Canada; powerplay minutes and teammates always looking for him, when he outscored all the Canadians in Sochi can we say he was better than all the Canadian players in Sochi? I even brought up a soccer example for you and you ignored it. So no, when you prove something we might start listening.

Excuse me.

If if if if if if... Sure, minutes would be zero in Canada's A team. Sure, production would be bad for Soccer team of Kenya. Sure, International contributions would be lower without good team and good spot on a line and without important role in The Team, etc.

In non-existing alternate reality.

Luckily Granny is playing hockey for Team Finland, and it's totally irrelevant is he better or worse of this or that Canadian player in an imaginary circumstances when his whole history and production show he is damn good in real team playing real hockey in real international tournaments.

In that actual role he is outscored those allegedly better Canadian players and allegedly better team Canada as a member of Team Finland.

I can't see the issue here. What was the problem? Is there any at all?