Value of: Mikael Granlund to a contender

[Empoleon8771]

Sounds like the perfect type to lead a rebuilding team. He's valuable in all situations and helps take a load off the young guys. And he is a leader. I still would be very happy to keep him until Smith, Musty, etc. develop into useful players and push Granlund out.

Yeah I agree 100% with this. He is far better of a player on San Jose than he would be as a 2nd or 3rd liner on a good team.

This is such a dumb and pointless argument because you're arguing the most obvious things. Obviously if you take a team's best offensive weapon off of power plays his numbers are going to decrease. Obviously, like EVERY first line player on every team who plays on the first power play they're going to have a lot of points from there. This isn't some secret fact that only you know.

You know who could have used someone getting a third of their points on the power play last year?

The Penguins.

Yet you still don't seem to understand it. The point is that with Granlund specifically, taking him out of that kind of usage takes him from "strong point producer" to "horrible player". It's a far sharper drop off that any other player would reasonably have from that kind of usage. He's not good enough of a player to be getting the kind of usage he's getting on San Jose on any sort of contending team, and when he's not getting that kind of usage, he's an awful player.

Good players don't go from "strong producers" to "downright liabilities" if they go from a 1st line role to a 3rd line role. And Granlund's entire track record suggests he does exactly that. Every fanbase who has had him prior to San Jose agrees that he does exactly this. This point isn't "he'll produce less when he's not getting that kind of usage", it's "he sucks ass when he's not getting that kind of usage".

He's giving San Jose good value in the role he's being used in. That is far more value than any contending team would get out of him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I agree 100% with this. He is far better of a player on San Jose than he would be as a 2nd or 3rd liner on a good team.



Yet you still don't seem to understand it. The point is that with Granlund specifically, taking him out of that kind of usage takes him from "strong point producer" to "horrible player". It's a far sharper drop off that any other player would reasonably have from that kind of usage. He's not good enough of a player to be getting the kind of usage he's getting on San Jose on any sort of contending team, and when he's not getting that kind of usage, he's an awful player.

Good players don't go from "strong producers" to "downright liabilities" if they go from a 1st line role to a 3rd line role. And Granlund's entire track record suggests he does exactly that. Every fanbase who has had him prior to San Jose agrees that he does exactly this. This point isn't "he'll produce less when he's not getting that kind of usage", it's "he sucks ass when he's not getting that kind of usage".

He's giving San Jose good value in the role he's being used in. That is far more value than any contending team would get out of him.

Minnesota loved Granlund and he was a great player there.

He was unprepared for the trade to the Preds and had personal issues heading into PIT.

He's made comments that he's found his smile again.

Maybe the reality is that Nashville and PIT were bad fits and he is now the player that once was viewed as the "best prospect not in the NHL" once again.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Minnesota loved Granlund.

Granlund used to be good early in his career with Minnesota, that is definitely true.

In Granlund's last year with the Wild, he had 49 points in 63 games but had 18 PP points. He was a really solid EV producer in the 2 years before that (45 ES points in both years) but really seemed to start falling off in 2018-2019. And he's basically continued being what he was that year since.

 

[Gurglesons]

Granlund used to be good early in his career with Minnesota, that is definitely true.

In Granlund's last year with the Wild, he had 49 points in 63 games but had 18 PP points. He was a really solid EV producer in the 2 years before that (45 ES points in both years) but really seemed to start falling off in 2018-2019. And he's basically continued being what he was that year since.

And Granlund gave birth to his first kid in 2019 and then had a still born and then him and his wife divorced citing hockey lifestyle and their children as a main reason.

I think it's pretty obvious that Granlund had incredible personal battles that he's worked through.

I'd be shocked if he returns a 1st at the deadline, but this idea that he's "always sucked" is simply not true.

 

[Duffy13]

Throw out his Pens situation... He was going through a lot of personal issues with his marriage and then having been Sullied on top of it. He's a very decent player and I'm very glad to see him playing well. Would be a good pickup for most teams.

And Granlund gave birth to his first kid in 2019 and then had a still born and then him and his wife divorced citing hockey lifestyle and their children as a main reason.

I think it's pretty obvious that Granlund had incredible personal battles that he's worked through.

I'd be shocked if he returns a 1st at the deadline, but this idea that he's "always sucked" is simply not true.

I'll just follow you around and say the same thing 30 seconds later

 

[TheBeard]

Granlund had a terrible game today.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Holy cow Granlund had a terrific game today.

 

[CanadienShark]

Holy cow Granlund had a terrific game today.

Granlund is only good because he plays for the Sharks. Don't let his stats or great play fool you.

 

[TheBeard]

Granlund is only good because he plays for the Sharks. Don't let his stats or great play fool you.

He's only getting points because he plays first line minutes. If he was benched or healthy scratched he wouldn't get as many.

 

[PullHard]

@granlund2pulkkinen thoughts?

 

[DG93]

Yeah, I think if he keeps this up, we could squeeze a 1st+ out of a contender.

 

[Giskard]

Granlund was one of the worst Penguins trade, a 2nd for a dead anchor. Buyer beware.

 

[jonlin]

10gp 5g 8a 13p. 12th in the whole NHL atm. On the Sharks.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I’m sure some team will overpay for him at the deadline

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Goal and assist in the final five minutes as Sharks erase 4-1 deficit and an assist on the game-winner by Wennberg in OT.

A complete reversal of their opening night loss.

Maybe they're just starting the season 10 games late.

 

[Armourboy]

Minnesota loved Granlund and he was a great player there.

He was unprepared for the trade to the Preds and had personal issues heading into PIT.

He's made comments that he's found his smile again.

Maybe the reality is that Nashville and PIT were bad fits and he is now the player that once was viewed as the "best prospect not in the NHL" once again.

He wasn't a bad fit in Nashville, Hynes loved him, he was getting more minutes than anyone else on the team, he just was an ok player.

I know people want to give Empolyeon heck but he is being pretty truthful. Over the last several years of his career he has been ok stats wise, but it basically came because he was being force fed minutes in Nashville, not to mention getting to play with Forsberg and Duchene. When you moved him down the lineup he more or less disappeared rather than just having his production come down a notch.

I know he is having a great year, and I know he has been going through stuff, its started in Nashville, but I think this is a pretty good example of a guy just finding the spot that is good for him. Frankly I think if he goes to a contender he more or less goes flat, he's never been very good when he gets moved, he just doesn't seem to adjust well on the fly like that.

Edit: He also more or less disappeared in the playoffs as well. I think that is mainly because he is a player that just goes all the time, so during the season he outworks some guys that aren't, but come playoff time they kick it up a notch and he has no notch to go up. Nothing I can show to really prove that, more or less just what I saw when he was with us.

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Granlund was one of the worst Penguins trade, a 2nd for a dead anchor. Buyer beware.

He was going through some stuff at the time.

 

[Gecklund]

He’s probably the best C available at the deadline. If we aren’t getting bare minimum, a 2nd and a pretty good prospect then I keep him and resign him. He’s had some amazing chemistry with Eklund and you can tell keeping the pressure off his shoulders has helped Eklund grow.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

That is a ton of points for a guy that wouldn't be on any good team's #1 PP unit. Granlund going from #1 PP on San Jose to #2 PP on most contending teams alone is going to cost him about 15-20 points a season alone. Look what he was producing for Nashville when he was on their 2nd PP unit, he had 6 PP points in 2019-2020 and 7 PP points in 2020-2021. If he's not putting up 25 PP points a season, he's topping out at about 45 points while still getting 1st line minutes at ES. Which is what he has shown with literally every team he has been with in his career.

And the idea that he'd be the "best 3C in the league on a stacked team" has been proven factually untrue when he was brought to the Penguins to be a 3C behind Crosby and Malkin was was horrendous in the role.

Last year with San Jose, Granlund was 29 of 308 in the NHL in 5v5 ice time per game (among forwards with more than 700 minutes TOI) but was 151 of 308 in 5v5 points/60 (among forwards with more than 700 minutes TOI). And that was his best 5v5 performance in years, it was a middle of the pack production rate that just had him producing points with a ton of ice time. In 2022-2023, he was 259 of 301 in 5v5 points/60.

Granlund is 11th in PP points/60 since 2022-2023. He has not shared the ice with anybody else who is in the top 70. Why exactly would he not be on any good team’s 1st PP unit?

 

[tomd]

No knock against him but his type of player usually goes for something along the lines of a 2nd and a 3rd/4th.

 

[Gecklund]

No knock against him but his type of player usually goes for something along the lines of a 2nd and a 3rd/4th.

Then we keep him and resign him.

 

[TotalHomer]

Then we keep him and resign him.

He might just want to sign to a contender, hasn't won anything and won't be doing it in SJ while he still has something left in the tank.

 

[Gecklund]

He might just want to sign to a contender, hasn't won anything and won't be doing it in SJ while he still has something left in the tank.

I mean considering he’s said he’s very happy in SJ, I don’t know about that.

 

[TotalHomer]

I mean considering he’s said he’s very happy in SJ, I don’t know about that.

Guys almost always say that. It really doesn't mean much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then we keep him and resign him.

I don't think anyone is going to be breaking down the doors to trade a 1st for Granlund, my brother.