Microsoft Xbox Discussion Part II

[The Merchant]

f*** Xbox and f*** Phil Spencer. What a complete corporate ghoul he turned out to be.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Ninja Theory is next tbh.

 

[Jussi]

Ninja Theory is next tbh.

Based on how much they've promoted Hellblade 2, seems unlikely.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Sucks for the people losing their jobs.

From what I understand, Arkane Austin had a mass exodus of talent during Redfall's development. Shinji Mikami also recently left Tango to start another studio. It sucks, but if any studios were to be cut, these ones make sense.

 

[Jussi]

Sucks for the people losing their jobs.

From what I understand, Arkane Austin had a mass exodus of talent during Redfall's development. Shinji Mikami also recently left Tango to start another studio. It sucks, but if any studios were to be cut, these ones make sense.

Yeah I just read that that might have been a major reason. They're integrating stafff with other studios it seems, so I guess they're keeping the people they need.

 

[93LEAFS]

Based on how much they've promoted Hellblade 2, seems unlikely.

They promoted the hell out of Hi-Fi Rush post-release which wasn't directed by Mikami (who people are claiming why this studio was closed). That game was their critical darling in an era they've been lacking them.

Do I think they are going to close Ninja Theory? Probably not, but outside the COD Studios, the Coalition, Playground, Turn 10, Bethesda, and probably iD, nothing feels safe from mass cuts or even closure. If you are Obisidian or Ninja Theory, you now know you need Avowed and Hellblade 2 to land, not just critically but commercially.

 

[Jussi]

They promoted the hell out of Hi-Fi Rush post-release which wasn't directed by Mikami (who people are claiming why this studio was closed). That game was their critical darling in an era they've been lacking them.

Do I think they are going to close Ninja Theory? Probably not, but outside the COD Studios, the Coalition, Playground, Turn 10, Bethesda, and probably iD, nothing feels safe from mass cuts or even closure. If you are Obisidian or Ninja Theory, you now know you need Avowed and Hellblade 2 to land, not just critically but commercially.

Not to the amount of coverage Hellblade 2 has gotten in all of their showcases.

 

[JimmyApples]

Not to the amount of coverage Hellblade 2 has gotten in all of their showcases.

Yeah, horrible news with the studio closures of course, but not sure why the guy you quoted is going that direction to make a point. The Hellblade 2 and Hi Fi Rush marketing campaigns are night and day

 

[93LEAFS]

Not to the amount of coverage Hellblade 2 has gotten in all of their showcases.

Okay, I mean, they shadow dropped the game, but it was a critical darling and Xbox pumped it's tires like crazy after that.

Redfall was literally shown at pretty much every presentation up until release after they acquired Bethesda (pretty much the same frequency you see Hellblade stuff at things like showcases and Game Awards). Hellblade 2 is out in 2 weeks, and I don't see a massive marketing blitz for it like they put behind the big games (Halo, Gears, and Starfield).

Do I think Ninja Theory is likely to be closed anytime soon. Probably not, but what studios outside the COD factories, Bethesda, the Coalition, the Forza teams, truly feels safe after today. I'd say it's unlikely they get rid of teams like Obsidian, iD, MachineGames, Arkane France, 343i, etc, but I think a year ago most people would have said Arkane Austin and Tango Gameworks being closed was incredibly unlikely. Sort of surprised The Initiative survived this purge, since it sounds like a disaster over there.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I just don’t see the business model with ninja theory as basically a gamepass studio. The game is going to sell zero copies even it’s a 10/10, it exists purely as a prestige title for gamepass. You’d hope ninja theory would buy themselves back when Microsoft sours on them like iO interactive with Square, but the issue is again: they’re not going to have any money to buy themselves back because they’re not going to sell any units being a gamepass prestige project.

They made all these studio purchases hoping to boost gamepass subscribers but that’s stagnated, these studios need to prepare for a bloodbath.

 

[JimmyApples]

I just don’t see the business model with ninja theory as basically a gamepass studio. The game is going to sell zero copies even it’s a 10/10, it exists purely as a prestige title for gamepass. You’d hope ninja theory would buy themselves back when Microsoft sours on them like iO interactive with Square, but the issue is again: they’re not going to have any money to buy themselves back because they’re not going to sell any units being a gamepass prestige project.

They made all these studio purchases hoping to boost gamepass subscribers but that’s stagnated, these studios need to prepare for a bloodbath.

The question is, what is a successful game launch in a Gamepass era? Microsoft is pretty secretive about Gamepass numbers, and you’re right that nobody is buying the game.

Until cloud gaming grows, Gamepass probably won’t grow the way Microsoft is banking on because Xbox has thrown in the towel in the console war. There’s no real point owning an Xbox going forward once flagship games start launching on PlayStation, even if it’s a few months or a year after it launches on Xbox/PC.

 

[aleshemsky83]

The question is, what is a successful game launch in a Gamepass era? Microsoft is pretty secretive about Gamepass numbers, and you’re right that nobody is buying the game.

Until cloud gaming grows, Gamepass probably won’t grow the way Microsoft is banking on because Xbox has thrown in the towel in the console war. There’s no real point owning an Xbox going forward once flagship games start launching on PlayStation, even if it’s a few months or a year after it launches on Xbox/PC.

All I know is Microsoft came out to refute a report saying Tango was disappointed by lack of sales and said they were totally happy with HiFi Rush and considered it a success.

“Break out hit” R.I.P.

 

[JimmyApples]

All I know is Microsoft came out to refute a report saying Tango was disappointed by lack of sales and said they were totally happy with HiFi Rush and considered it a success.
“Break out hit” R.I.P.

I did hear that the director of Tango (or something like that) left and took a lot of his team with him, maybe that factored in? Not sure how valid that is.

 

[Khelandros]

I don't see why Microsoft closing studios is a surprise at this point.

Game pass is great for users, maybe decent for developers, but terrible for Microsoft.

Users pay their $200 a year and get access to tons of games and day one stuff.

Developers get their games on game pass, but don't get any money from game sales because no one is buying them.

Microsoft is either paying the developers themselves for money lost on games or hoping that enough people not on game pass buy stand alone copies. Either way this is costing Microsoft a ton of money.

Them wanting to put stuff on PSN, where people actually have to buy copies of the games, makes so much sense from a business stand point.

 

[Jovavic]

Microsoft is either paying the developers themselves for money lost on games or hoping that enough people not on game pass buy stand alone copies.

This what I did with Starfield, I bought it instead of getting Game Pass again. It's also why I bought Eiyuden Chronicles even though it's day one game pass, I wanted that developer to get a sale and whatever profit from it instead of whatever Microsoft does for Game Pass "sales".

 

[Jussi]

I'll repeat what I've said before: MS should go to tiered Game Pass releases. Day One, Day 10, Day 20/30, Day 50/60. This would be internal info, only for the developer and MS. It would allow companies to make money on sales first, like some streamers are doing with some movie releases.

 

[93LEAFS]

I did hear that the director of Tango (or something like that) left and took a lot of his team with him, maybe that factored in? Not sure how valid that is.

Mikami left, but I don't he hasn't started a new studio yet, or poached a ton of talent. They still had John Johanes who was the key person behind Hi-Fi Rush. Mikami always planned to leave post them being bought by Zenixmax and apparently stayed 8 years longer than intended.

Most studios are always going to have churn. Top developers will get burnt out, promising devs are capped and start their own thing, etc. It's just part of the industry in the Western world. Japanese devs tend to be much more loyal to the company they work for, but that's a divide that is much more cultural. The days of people staying 30 to 40 years at one company and retiring with a gold watch in North America are few and far between, whereas it was way more common for our parents and grandparents.

 

[93LEAFS]

 

[Jussi]

In a March interview with the gaming site Polygon, Spencer said that “the thing that has me most concerned for the industry is the lack of growth.”

Game developments costs have run up too high and will continue to do so with each new generation unless development can be made easier/cheaper. And the overall global economy is not doing well. Inflation is running rampant and people are more frugal with their money usage, people are also losing jobs all over the world due to companies cutting costs.

 

[93LEAFS]

Game developments costs have run up too high and will continue to do so with each new generation unless development can be made easier/cheaper. And the overall global economy is not doing well. Inflation is running rampant and people are more frugal with their money usage, people are also losing jobs all over the world due to companies cutting costs.

MS is now a 3 trillion dollar company. They aren't some struggling business.

They bet on Gamepass at the expense of console sales, not realizing that the massive initial growth of Gamepass was fueled by console users. Other companies are having issues obviously, but this is just a massive downside of consolidation. Instead of Microsoft making Activision better, Activision is making Microsoft worse.

 

[Jussi]

MS is now a 3 trillion dollar company. They aren't some struggling business.

They bet on Gamepass at the expense of console sales, not realizing that the massive initial growth of Gamepass was fueled by console users. Other companies are having issues obviously, but this is just a massive downside of consolidation. Instead of Microsoft making Activision better, Activision is making Microsoft worse.

As the article mentioned, the gaming division is now under more scrutiny from people higher up than Phil Spencer. They expect results but with lower costs.

 

[Mikeaveli]

The tech industry is going through a recession right now, FAANG type companies have been laying people off for like 2 years and hiring froze alongside that. Hiring is only now starting to slightly pick up. Couple that with the specific problems the game industry is facing right now (massive budgets, stagnating console sales and subscription numbers, Sony/MS being unable to cost reduce consoles) and you have quite the mess.

Hopefully there is a solution but right now AAA gaming is in a pretty dire state.

 

[93LEAFS]

This has to be satire, that's like an Onion headline.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Why is game development so much more expensive nowadays?

 

[aleshemsky83]

Why is game development so much more expensive nowadays?

I think one factor is that you have hundreds, sometimes over a thousand people working on just one game. 8 bit and 16 bit games for example never had more than 10 people working on them.

Basic math: 500 employees and contractors x 50k average salary = 25 million dollars a year. 4 years of development of a AAA game would be 100 million just in salary.

Thats not even accounting cost of workstations and renting office space. Then you could have the snowball effect of the cost being so high that you need to borrow money and pay interest on that, Curt Schilling will tell you all about that.