Microsoft Xbox Discussion Part II

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Been listening to the interview and Phil doesn’t sugarcoat anything, which is nice. Actually surprised Xbox PR even let him do an interview with everything that has happened in the last week.

 

[aleshemsky83]

You know Im one of the rare people where bugs really do not bother me unless it actually breaks saves or causes you to lose progress. My main criticism of redfall, this game does not have any right to require over 100GB of storage.

 

[JimmyApples]

Been listening to the interview and Phil doesn’t sugarcoat anything, which is nice. Actually surprised Xbox PR even let him do an interview with everything that has happened in the last week.

I think it's awesome Phil got in front of a mic and took the heat for Redfall. Great leadership.

I think there's definitely some politics at play in his statement - a message to the CMA, FTC and EU by playing the underdog card. I think 95% of what he said is honest, and even the 5% wasn't a lie, but sounded like a message to try and help with the Activision deal.

It was neat to get an honest view into Xbox's vision. He hammered down the "Play Anywhere" aspect of their ecosystem, which was nothing new. Admitting losing last generation was huge and had a trickle effect due to digital game purchases was really interesting, and brings forward a good point to Xbox trying to attract future PS5 users - it's very, very difficult.

With that said, Xbox's commitment to subscription and streaming is such smart business on their end. Cannot state it enough. While a digital library is huge, think forward - consoles (which lose these companies money) will be a thing of the past as you'll be able to sync your controller to your TV and play.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think it's awesome Phil got in front of a mic and took the heat for Redfall. Great leadership.

I think there's definitely some politics at play in his statement - a message to the CMA, FTC and EU by playing the underdog card. I think 95% of what he said is honest, and even the 5% wasn't a lie, but sounded like a message to try and help with the Activision deal.

It was neat to get an honest view into Xbox's vision. He hammered down the "Play Anywhere" aspect of their ecosystem, which was nothing new. Admitting losing last generation was huge and had a trickle effect due to digital game purchases was really interesting, and brings forward a good point to Xbox trying to attract future PS5 users - it's very, very difficult.

With that said, Xbox's commitment to subscription and streaming is such smart business on their end. Cannot state it enough. While a digital library is huge, think forward - consoles (which lose these companies money) will be a thing of the past as you'll be able to sync your controller to your TV and play.

Gamepass is a great proposition (it got this long-time Sony player to buy 3 years up as soon as I built a PC), but, they need these first parties to deliver. Phil seems personable and ready to take questions in a controlled environment (lets not kids ourselves any difficult questions outside of reviews weren't dug deep on). The main issue I find in what has happened with Redfall is this, I personally feel Sony or Nintendo would never release a first party AAA game in that state (especially one they hyped up) in the state this was. Like, your first party games should be showcases for their system/platform. Look the Switch tech-wise is outpowered by the latest gen Iphone, but Nintendo can outmaneuver it with unreal gameplay loops, I know people I would have never guessed liked games beyond are hyped for Tears of the Kingdom. They don't care it's 30fps at 720, it just plays great and taps into their imagination. All studios should take note of that.

Look MS made moves, but they need AAA games to deliver. Whether they be new IPs or extensions of their franchises. I hope they do well, because I just want the best possible games to be made. But, it does feel like Starfield is make or break, and if not, its on Avowed and Hellblade 2.

As for his statements on Activision, I feel everything he says is briefed to the max, and that's fair as it messes with share prices on both sides. He's not going to say anything revolutionary one way or the other, otherwise he wouldn't be in charge of xbox.

 

[JimmyApples]

Gamepass is a great proposition (it got this long-time Sony player to buy 3 years up as soon as I built a PC), but, they need these first parties to deliver. Phil seems personable and ready to take questions in a controlled environment (lets not kids ourselves any difficult questions outside of reviews weren't dug deep on). The main issue I find in what has happened with Redfall is this, I personally feel Sony or Nintendo would never release a first party AAA game in that state (especially one they hyped up) in the state this was. Like, your first party games should be showcases for their system/platform. Look the Switch tech-wise is outpowered by the latest gen Iphone, but Nintendo can outmaneuver it with unreal gameplay loops, I know people I would have never guessed liked games beyond hyped for Tears of the Kingdom. They don't care it's 30fps at 720, it just plays great and taps into their imagination. All studios should take note of that.

Look MS made moves, but they need AAA games to deliver. Whether they be new IPs or extensions of their franchises. I hope they do well, because I just want the best possible games to be made. But, it does feel like Starfield is make or break, and if not, its on Avowed and Hellblade 2.

It's weird, but I'm not really worried about the state Microsoft/Xbox is in here.

I think a lot of good games are coming for Xbox. We'll have a better of idea for Starfield June 11th, but I'm very confident a lineup of Starfield + Motorsport + Hellblade 2 will be a success to end the year for Xbox. I just re-upped three years of Game Pass for under $200 CAD. If every exclusive (AA, AAA, third-party exclusives) missed, I actually think the value is there, anyways. Under $70 a year for the enjoyment I get out of third-party additions alone is great. Add in games like Forza Horizon 5, Psychonauts 2, Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded, and the value is unreal. If a game like Starfield scratches its surface, and Hellblade 2 hits, the value is outstanding.

There's a ton of conflicting reports out for what happened to Redfall. Some reports saying Xbox didn't really support the game, but the game was already so far into development and Xbox respects the creativity of their studios, they didn't want to pull the plug. I don't remember the exact timeline, but the Bethesda deal approved in the first-half of 2021, and the game was announced at E3 2021, to be released in 2022 before the delay. So it kind of checks out.

I was super hyped for the game since it was announced. Loved the idea, studio, and art direction. I think they originally said it could be played in first-person or third-person, so my first disappointment was finding out it would only be first-person. Then 30 frames. Then when I actually played it and I saw the laziness for everything.

 

[93LEAFS]

It's weird, but I'm not really worried about the state Microsoft/Xbox is in here.

I think a lot of good games are coming for Xbox. We'll have a better of idea for Starfield June 11th, but I'm very confident a lineup of Starfield + Motorsport + Hellblade 2 will be a success to end the year for Xbox. I just re-upped three years of Game Pass for under $200 CAD. If every exclusive (AA, AAA, third-party exclusives) missed, I actually think the value is there, anyways. Under $70 a year for the enjoyment I get out of third-party additions alone is great. Add in games like Forza Horizon 5, Psychonauts 2, Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded, and the value is unreal. If a game like Starfield scratches its surface, and Hellblade 2 hits, the value is outstanding.

There's a ton of conflicting reports out for what happened to Redfall. Some reports saying Xbox didn't really support the game, but the game was already so far into development and Xbox respects the creativity of their studios, they didn't want to pull the plug. I don't remember the exact timeline, but the Bethesda deal approved in the first-half of 2021, and the game was announced at E3 2021, to be released in 2022 before the delay. So it kind of checks out.

I was super hyped for the game since it was announced. Loved the idea, studio, and art direction. I think they originally said it could be played in first-person or third-person, so my first disappointment was finding out it would only be first-person. Then 30 frames. Then when I actually played it and I saw the laziness for everything.

Look, while I enjoy Gamepass, I'm on all platforms, what I want is the best possible games chased. I feel the Nintendo and Sony do that, I don't really care about a release pipeline to fufill a subriptions serive. Like, land your AAA releases. I really hope Starfield pulls that off. I have hope Redfall will be fixed into a playable state, but I want games where you are dying to play them at launch. If it takes months to fix a game, whatever greatness it achieves later is generally lost.

Whatever happened with Redfall is unacceptable and the buck ends with MS. If this is a flagship AAA game for your company, it better work. And, I was excited for Redfall, and the promise of AAA games on gamepass, but I want it to deliever at launch. Like, Hi-Fi Rush was great, to be honest, shadow drop Redfall, and hype Hi-FI.

 

[JimmyApples]

Look, while I enjoy Gamepass, I'm on all platforms, what I want is the best possible games chased. I feel the Nintendo and Sony do that, I don't really care about a release pipeline to fufill a subriptions serive. Like, land your AAA releases. I really hope Starfield pulls that off. I have hope Redfall will be fixed into a playable state, but I want games where you are dying to play them at launch. If it takes months to fix a game, whatever greatness it achieves later is generally lost.

Whatever happened with Redfall is unacceptable and the buck ends with MS. If this is a flagship AAA game for your company, it better work. And, I was excited for Redfall, and the promise of AAA games on gamepass, but I want it to deliever at launch. Like, Hi-Fi Rush was great, to be honest, shadow drop Redfall, and hype Hi-FI.

I mean, yeah, you need your first-party games (especially AAA) to not flop. But the value in Game Pass is a lot more than just Xbox first party games. Maybe it doesn’t fit your gaming needs but a lot of gamers have Gamepass because it’s the best value in gaming due to the huge library of diverse games.

I’d agree with Xbox needing to deliver but they haven’t really put out enough AAA games for the Series X yet to tell (unless something catastrophic happens that’s changing in the fall). But in terms of successful overall releases by Xbox Game Studios for next-gen and their MC scores:

MSFS 90
Forza Horizon 5 92
Psychonauts 2 87
Pentiment 86
Grounded 82
Hi-Fi Rush 87
Deathloop 89
Ghostwire Tokyo 82
Halo Infinite 87 (seems like a lot of the reviews were geared at the campaign)

Honestly...not too shabby. If one of three AAA's likely releasing this year flop, I'd be a little concerned, but Xbox has put out some quality games here.

 

[93LEAFS]

I mean, yeah, you need your first-party games (especially AAA) to not flop. But the value in Game Pass is a lot more than just Xbox first party games. Maybe it doesn’t fit your gaming needs but a lot of gamers have Gamepass because it’s the best value in gaming due to the huge library of diverse games.

I’d agree with Xbox needing to deliver but they haven’t really put out enough AAA games for the Series X yet to tell (unless something catastrophic happens that’s changing in the fall). But in terms of successful overall releases by Xbox Game Studios for next-gen and their MC scores:

MSFS 90
Forza Horizon 5 92
Psychonauts 2 87
Pentiment 86
Grounded 82
Hi-Fi Rush 87
Deathloop 89
Ghostwire Tokyo 82
Halo Infinite 87 (seems like a lot of the reviews were geared at the campaign)

Honestly...not too shabby. If one of three AAA's likely releasing this year flop, I'd be a little concerned, but Xbox has put out some quality games here.

Psychonauts 2 was great in my opinion. Hi-Fi Rush was good. I felt Ghostwire Tokyo reviewed worse than that, but maybe that is just the Series X score. So, far I've got pretty good value out of Game Pass as I loved Sunset Overdrive and Psychonauts 2 so access to the back catalog has been a boon. But going forward, I want those AAA games to land at launch. I don't want it to be a scenario where I enjoy it for the first 6 months, but am then waiting indefinitely for the AAA games to land. MS needs there answer to the GOTY type games Sony and Nintendo tend to launch every year, hopefully that is Starfield or Hellblade 2 down the line, I just don't want things rushed out the door to meet a Gamepass cadence.

 

[Jovavic]

I don't want it to be a scenario where I enjoy it for the first 6 months, but am then waiting indefinitely for the AAA games to land.

This is what happened to me and my Series S, I got a year of GP and played the backlog for six months, played some Forza Horizon when it came out then I haven't bothered renewing it, I have no need to since I've played what I missed (like Ryse, solid game) and nothing has come out. Starfield is obviously on my radar but I don't know if I just want to get GP for a few months or just buy it outright. Of course, if it launches in a buggy state then I won't bother till it's fixed.

 

[Dolemite]

 

[JimmyApples]

Psychonauts 2 was great in my opinion. Hi-Fi Rush was good. I felt Ghostwire Tokyo reviewed worse than that, but maybe that is just the Series X score. So, far I've got pretty good value out of Game Pass as I loved Sunset Overdrive and Psychonauts 2 so access to the back catalog has been a boon. But going forward, I want those AAA games to land at launch. I don't want it to be a scenario where I enjoy it for the first 6 months, but am then waiting indefinitely for the AAA games to land. MS needs there answer to the GOTY type games Sony and Nintendo tend to launch every year, hopefully that is Starfield or Hellblade 2 down the line, I just don't want things rushed out the door to meet a Gamepass cadence.

I actually think Hellblade 2 will meet its expectations more than Starfield. I think Starfield will be great but the expectations are through the roof. Hellblade 2 just needs a solid story with what we've seen from the graphics and animation, it will review really well.

 

[93LEAFS]

I actually think Hellblade 2 will meet its expectations more than Starfield. I think Starfield will be great but the expectations are through the roof. Hellblade 2 just needs a solid story with what we've seen from the graphics and animation, it will review really well.

Starfield is a game where the hype is at a level of say God of War: Ranarok, GTA VI, Spider-Man 2 or Tears of the Kingdom. It needs to deliver to regain consumer trust. Even if it launches with significant performance issues (which should honestly be expected like most Bethesda games), it needs to at a minimum have an underlying game in there that captures players. Everything else in Microsoft's pipeline that I know of currently that is supposed to come out in the next couple years expectations are notably below that, and the only game I realistically see getting that type of wide-spread hype is the MachineGames/Indiana Jones game. Probably the game I am most interested/excited for in Microsoft's development pipeline, so that may be my bias, no idea how many active gamers are die-hard Indiana Jones fans (and they better give an update at that big showcase, alongside whatever iD and Double Fine are working on). Hellblade 2, Avowed, etc, could take the world by storm but I don't think many gamers are marking their calendars for those launches to the same extent like a Starfield, Tears of the Kingdom, Spider-Man 2 etc . They could be GOTY type games and I very much hope they are must-play experiences, but they obviously don't enter their launch windows with expectations like that compared to other major first party releases.

At the end of the day, how Redfall launched is completely unacceptable for a major AAA first-party release, especially when compounded with its multiple delays with accompanying statements saying it's delayed to make sure it launches in the best possible state. No game launches as good as it will be 6 months after release (or atleast very rarely), there will always be bugs that don't get caught or are ignored to meet a release window, but there is a certain baseline of polish I feel consumers should expect from platform holders like Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, and how Redfall launched was completely unacceptable for a heavily marketed AAA game. Maybe I'll eat my words and games like Tears of the Kingdom and Spider-Man 2 will launch in very subpar states, but I wouldn't bet on it, whereas I would be very worried about the condition Starfield will launch in. While Gamepass is a great innovation for consumers, Sony is pretty much on record (unamed 3rd party in CMA documents), that if they decided to launch day and date on a subscription service for first party releases that while they could do it, they would likely have to cut investment into first party games as they won't be profitable enough to justify 100m dollar or more budgets. Maybe, I'm atypical, but I don't mind paying the $90 CAD for amazing gaming experiences if they deliver, and the last thing I want is things underfunded/rushed out the door to meet gamepass timelines. Starfield's launch is going to be very interesting to watch, it either makes Redfall look like a blip on the radar or it shows it was representative of a larger problem.

 

[JimmyApples]

 

[aleshemsky83]

My last thing on Redfall, its got so much keyhunting. The keyhunting is a complete dealbreaker for me. Keyhunting for for main missions and a lot of times to unlock fast travel points. Apparently whoever was in charge of this game really loved FPS games from 1994.

 

[chicagoskycam]

2TB is $300 with tax :/

 

[JimmyApples]

Sounds like this years Xbox + Bethesda showcase will not stick to the 2022 format of only showing games coming in the next year. Good news, because the delays kind of ruined the point of that with the AAA's like Starfield and Motorsport launching after the event.

You know there's going to be a lot of surprise AA titles and indie games. Pretty much guaranteed are Motorsport, Hellblade 2, Stalker 2, Ark 2, Avowed. Everwild seems to have had a rocky development so I wouldn't count on that. Maybe State of Decay 3, Contraband, and Perfect Dark will be shown.

I imagine one, if not both, of ES6 and Fallout 5, are far enough in development to get a little something, but not sure if Bethesda would do that when the Starfield direct is right after the show. Those would definitely break the internet in terms of surprises.

 

[Jussi]

I thought that was a PS5 exclusive.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Sounds like this years Xbox + Bethesda showcase will not stick to the 2022 format of only showing games coming in the next year. Good news, because the delays kind of ruined the point of that with the AAA's like Starfield and Motorsport launching after the event.

You know there's going to be a lot of surprise AA titles and indie games. Pretty much guaranteed are Motorsport, Hellblade 2, Stalker 2, Ark 2, Avowed. Everwild seems to have had a rocky development so I wouldn't count on that. Maybe State of Decay 3, Contraband, and Perfect Dark will be shown.

I imagine one, if not both, of ES6 and Fallout 5, are far enough in development to get a little something, but not sure if Bethesda would do that when the Starfield direct is right after the show. Those would definitely break the internet in terms of surprises.

I would be shocked if we see Elder Scrolls or Fallout, I doubt those games have even fully entered pre-production. BGS should have the entire studio and then some working on Starfield and its inevitable DLC.

For the showcase I'm excited to see more of Starfield, STALKER 2, hopefully Avowed, whatever ID and InXile are working on, and maybe the Persona 3 Remake will be announced there as Atlus seems to have a marketing relationship with Xbox now.

 

[93LEAFS]

I would be shocked if we see Elder Scrolls or Fallout, I doubt those games have even fully entered pre-production. BGS should have the entire studio and then some working on Starfield and its inevitable DLC.

For the showcase I'm excited to see more of Starfield, STALKER 2, hopefully Avowed, whatever ID and InXile are working on, and maybe the Persona 3 Remake will be announced there as Atlus seems to have a marketing relationship with Xbox now.

I would hope to find out whatever iD is up to and to hopefully see something more than a CGI trailer for whatever MachineGames is working on whether that be the Indiana Jones game or Wolfenstein 3, they haven't had a major release since New Colossus which was like 2017, and the split Wolfenstein: Youngblood project with Arkane in 2018. I can't see Elder Scrolls or Fallout, unless Microsoft puts out a CGI trailer for a game coming out in like 2026 at best and more likely 2027/28.

 

[JimmyApples]

I think ES6 is further along development than the public knows. Not saying to expect it in 2024 but I think next years Showcase will show something.

Also, rumour! Persona 3 remake to be shown at Xbox Showcase.

 

[Jussi]

 

[Jussi]

Forza Motorsport Cover Cars

Meet the stunning 2023 No. 01 Cadillac Racing V-Series.R and 2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray.

forza.net

 

[JimmyApples]

Starfield is officially 100 days away

 

[JimmyApples]

Xbox should hopefully be able to present a really good showcase, and take some momentum from PS5 for this generation. As Phil said, nobody is selling their PS5 for Xbox, but with a good showing here, you can probably attract some new customers because PS5 doesn’t have much coming out this year, and their showcase was weak.

 

[Knave]

I'm hoping in their summer showcase we learn more about Age of Mythology Retold.

And in terms of games more generally - I'm curious to see how far AI can push things over the coming years and decades. Most studios try to sell their RPGs and MMORPGs as "living breathing worlds" but really after some amount of time you recognize the patterns of the NPCs pretty quickly.

I wonder how long it will take for AI to get to a point where it can develop unique terrain/maps/zones, modify them with weather/time and have NPCs do unique things. When I think of the RPGs and MMORPGs I've played recently - I gave New World a try, I am slowly working through Hogwarts Legacy and Pokemon Scarlet... New World and Pokemon feel empty and barren while Hogwarts Legacy feels a bit stilted. The NPCs exist in Hogwarts but they do so little.