OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[SoupNazi]

f*** the Yankees.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1818021623917912182

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Almost two entire Presidential terms since the Verlander trade and we’re still selling high-end starters at the TDL. Feels bad man.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Just an unholy amount of grit in the second picture.

 

[SantosHalper]

Nice belt Stevie. All Grit all the way.

 

[jaster]

About an hour left. Most teams in the market for SPs have made their acquisitions. Tigers seem to have lost significant leverage waiting this long. Will they get anything worthwhile for Flaherty at this point?

Yankees may get him for a song.

 

[Hen Kolland]

About an hour left. Most teams in the market for SPs have made their acquisitions. Tigers seem to have lost significant leverage waiting this long. Will they get anything worthwhile for Flaherty at this point?

Yankees may get him for a song.

I look forward to 5 years from now where Scott Harris was found to be on the payroll of Cleveland or Chicago all along to waste and mismanage the Tigers organization

 

[Winger98]

About an hour left. Most teams in the market for SPs have made their acquisitions. Tigers seem to have lost significant leverage waiting this long. Will they get anything worthwhile for Flaherty at this point?

Yankees may get him for a song.

Do we have any idea what they were offering in the first place? It's a situation where it feels like you need to get something for him, but I'm not sure we should deal him if what Harris would consider a fair deal is never on the table.

 

[jaster]

Do we have any idea what they were offering in the first place? It's a situation where it feels like you need to get something for him, but I'm not sure we should deal him if what Harris would consider a fair deal is never on the table.

Yeah I dunno. But I would have taken what the Astros gave up for Kikuchi, who’s not nearly as good as Flaherty (though I think has more team control).

Sounds like the Dodgers are in on Flaherty, in addition to the Yankees, in which case Harris can obviously try to leverage those two against each other. We’ll see.

 

[Reality Check]

If there is a brightside, we should land a comp pick for Flaherty if he leaves in FA. Still probably prefer to move him now and Canha if possible.

 

[jaster]

Ok, he's off to the Dodgers. What'd we get?

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1818406331218342325

I promise this Twitter account is not a fake Elliott Friedman.

 

[jaster]

Looks like Trey Sweeney and Thayron Liranzo. A couple B/C-level, future quad-A types. Liranzo has some upside I guess. Well, they'll help bolster the farm at least I guess.

 

[SoupNazi]

Surprised someone didn’t beat that return.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Surprised someone didn’t beat that return.

Some would argue that they did. Like I would have traded Flaherty for the package that went to Miami from Baltimore or the deal that went to Toronto from Houston over what we brought back from the Dodgers

 

[jaster]

Some would argue that they did. Like I would have traded Flaherty for the package that went to Miami from Baltimore or the deal that went to Toronto from Houston over what we brought back from the Dodgers

Yep.

 

[Winger98]

Some would argue that they did. Like I would have traded Flaherty for the package that went to Miami from Baltimore or the deal that went to Toronto from Houston over what we brought back from the Dodgers

Just because someone got a package for their guy doesn't mean we could have got it for ours. I think it's more likely we got a bunch of mediocre offers and Harris took what he saw as the best of them.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Just because someone got a package for their guy doesn't mean we could have got it for ours. I think it's more likely we got a bunch of mediocre offers and Harris took what he saw as the best of them.

I mean reports out there are that the Astros were engaged in talks with the Tigers and balked because our asking price was too high. They immediately pivoted and got the deal done with Toronto for a worse player on an expiring contract.

Odds are Houston wanted Flaherty more which is likely why the discussion was with Detroit first. If we lost out on a potential deal, it would have potentially been more than what the Jays got, or at least the same. Not as catastrophic as E-Rod by any means, but still not a warm and fuzzy feeling for Harris.

Also, look at a lot of the primary pieces we got back. We are talking about our prize being a 21 year old catcher in high A ball. Between Liranzo and Clark and McGonigle and Rainer, the bulk of our prospects that we have invested in are 2-3 years from even making an MLB appearance, let alone being impactful.

If that was the approach that Harris wants to take, which it looks like we are very much committed to, we have absolutely no reason to hold on to Skubal.

 

[Reality Check]

I sense that fans are feeling better now after the Yankees did bail on a proposed trade due to medical concerns about Flaherty.

This isn't even the biggest issue facing the Tigers right now. They have 2 former #1 overall draft picks who have flamed out and need to decide if they are worth salvaging.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I sense that fans are feeling better now after the Yankees did bail on a proposed trade due to medical concerns about Flaherty.

This isn't even the biggest issue facing the Tigers right now. They have 2 former #1 overall draft picks who have flamed out and need to decide if they are worth salvaging.

If we are going to put stock into that report and reasoning, we can also put stock in Evan Petzold's reporting that Harris was asking too much even in the last 90 minutes and potentially was forced to settle with this return which is less than he wanted, and better deals were missed out on because other teams pivoted.

 

[Winger98]

I mean reports out there are that the Astros were engaged in talks with the Tigers and balked because our asking price was too high. They immediately pivoted and got the deal done with Toronto for a worse player on an expiring contract.

Odds are Houston wanted Flaherty more which is likely why the discussion was with Detroit first. If we lost out on a potential deal, it would have potentially been more than what the Jays got, or at least the same. Not as catastrophic as E-Rod by any means, but still not a warm and fuzzy feeling for Harris.

Also, look at a lot of the primary pieces we got back. We are talking about our prize being a 21 year old catcher in high A ball. Between Liranzo and Clark and McGonigle and Rainer, the bulk of our prospects that we have invested in are 2-3 years from even making an MLB appearance, let alone being impactful.

If that was the approach that Harris wants to take, which it looks like we are very much committed to, we have absolutely no reason to hold on to Skubal.

It could have also been less. Part of their interest in Flaherty might have been in a belief he could be had cheaper. Or that there weren't medical issues. Just because Houston gave up what you perceive as more for a player you perceive as less does not mean the Astros value them the same or that they made the same or comparable offer for Flaherty.

The yankees have commented that they were negotiating for Flaherty up until the end, which means they never offered something Harris saw as better than what they got from LA. I thnk it's just as possible that Harris's initial ask was along the lines of what Houston dealt to Toronto, but for whatever reason those offers never materialized.

It might also be a window into why Skubal wasn't dealt. GMs either don't value our guys nearly the same as we do, or they will only low ball us on them.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Let's be real Tigers are in 'lets start over' mode. Or should be anyway. Bad drafting will always do it for ya.

 

[Hen Kolland]

GMs either don't value our guys nearly the same as we do, or they will only low ball us on them.

Then I think we have arrived the point where Scott Harris has reached the end of the road. If he is simply going to be abused by other GMs and/or values our players in a way the sport doesn't, then he's no good here.

 

[Winger98]

Then I think we have arrived the point where Scott Harris has reached the end of the road. If he is simply going to be abused by other GMs and/or values our players in a way the sport doesn't, then he's no good here.

Maybe. He's only had the job for two years, though. What's going to make or break the Tigers is how well they draft and develop, and I'm not sure we can really know where Harris is going to fall on that. We desperately need moer kids to pan out and not get hurt or bust.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Maybe. He's only had the job for two years, though. What's going to make or break the Tigers is how well they draft and develop, and I'm not sure we can really know where Harris is going to fall on that. We desperately need moer kids to pan out and not get hurt or bust.

Obviously, I am being dramatic regarding Harris, though my comments are accurate. If he is the punching bag of the league, he needs to be gone. We just don't know that to be the case at this time.

What he needs to do for this coming year is properly insulate the young players with veteran talent that has actual talent. Canha and Urshela and McKinstry can't be the type we lean on. We can't find ourselves in a position where our best option is Bligh Madris and either of the Ryan's, Kreidler or Vilade. God forbid I have to listen to another season of Harris defending Baez and say they haven't considered buying him out.

 

[jaster]

There's just no excuse for getting less for Flaherty than Toronto got for Kikuchi. Cashman came out and basically said the Rosentahl report about medical concerns was overblown and that he still wanted Flaherty. Also reported that Houston offered the same package and Harris turned it down (only to later settle for a much worse package). Combined with the E-Rod debacle last deadline, I'm convinced Harris is simply very bad at trading - valuations, communication, timing, all of the above. In different ways, we got fleeced in both cases. That's on Harris, regardless of whatever small challenges he faced.

As for Skubal, it's been reported that the Tigers were never going to trade him. At least one other GM let it be known the Tigers wouldn't even discuss him. For better or worse. Seems to signal Harris intends to "try" to compete again next season.

Drafting and developing is absolutely key, but trades still very much matter, and botched trades impact the future. Maybe Harris can still pull out of his nosedive in terms of performance, but so far it's not been good, he's blown his two biggest opportunities and it's set back the franchise even further.