Ah I misunderstood your post twice. I thought you were saying it was an actual match they had on that Raw. And lol your dropping the title comment went over my head.
Michaels Versus Hart
- Thread starter DitchMarner
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Ah I misunderstood your post twice. I thought you were saying it was an actual match they had on that Raw. And lol your dropping the title comment went over my head.
JackSlater
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I do see where you where you were coming from as with 2020 lenses on it does look a fair bit like a house show in just pictures or a short gif. That was the time when Raw was on a big upswing from its early and fairly crappy years.
Also, it was a different broadcast look than other Raws at the time as this was a stadium show (Skydome). Big presentation/production difference compared a normal arena Raw.
The darker lighting made me think it was a house show.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
Bret was the better wrestler. Shawn had the better matches in part that he was better utilized. Bret didn't want what Shawn had and it's by that virtue he has the lesser legacy of the two.
But give me Hart
But give me Hart
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Disgrace.
It's kind of funny that he actually helped Michaels' career by repeatedly calling him a "degenerate" in '97.
He obviously didn't care for his dancing, flamboyancy, show-boating etc, but I'm sure to an extent Bret was semi-shooting in some of those promos he did on Shawn in '96 and '97.
Eventually Michaels was like, "f*** it, yeah, I am a degenerate!" and he became the leader of one of the most influential wrestling stables ever.
'97 was fire BTW. Such an underrated year for the WWF. The only year that's better (that I've seen) is 2000. 1997 felt so much edgier and was more authentic than the New Generation years and was better than '98 and '99 as well.
Easily my favourite year in wrestling. Hart Foundation and Austin's rise on one show, nWo on the other. It was amazing.
JackSlater
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1997 is my favourite year in wrestling and the general storyline surrounding Bret Hart at that time is easily the best storyline ever in my eyes. Everything made perfect sense and was consistent with what we had seen for years plus with the added real life intrigue making it all much more interesting. It made sense that Bret Hart would be pissed off as he kept being the good guy he'd been all along while the fans' tastes changed around him. He was a great foil for Austin (at his apex as a character) and of course he helped further a natural evolution for Michaels, already a rival. The uniqueness of Hart's reactions in USA vs elsewhere was also great. Everything surrounding Hart really set the stage for the high points that would follow.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Went with Michaels because of the extra personality and excitement, but both are masters of their craft.
I never really liked the one or the other argument --- they're both pretty much 1a/1b for me.
I never really liked the one or the other argument --- they're both pretty much 1a/1b for me.
JackSlater
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I feel the same. Even as a fan in the mid 90s when they feuded on and off screen I remained a big fan of both. My favourite and second favourite ever.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I will freely admit that I hope somewhere there is a parallel univerise where Hennig never got hurt, Michaels had his head on straight, and Hart never left WWF.
In that univerise Hennig, Michaels and Hart carried the New Generation with awesome performances, before transitioning into feuds with Austin and Rock in the Attitude Era and finished their careers going up against the likes of Owen, Jericho, Guerrero and Benoit (minus the tragedy).
JackSlater
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Hennig is my fifth ever, so I would very much be in favour. Those three are somewhat attached in my mind as guys that are close comparables in terms of talent and way ahead of almost everyone else. Can't really complain about Hart's health or even Michaels', but it is unfortunate that Hennig was permanently hampered from his early 30s on. I could even see Hennig and Hart in a crotchety old man stable at some point taking on the likes of Jericho as their careers wound down.
Two of the best in-ring performers in wrestling history.
Michaels was better at the high-flying stuff, and Hart was a better technical wrestler with superior ring psychology.
I prefer Bret's in-ring style from an entertainment aspect, so I give him the slight edge there.
Michaels was better on the microphone, although Bret had his moments (especially any time he was a heel).
Truth be told, both were better as heels in my opinion. Both had a natural cockiness that worked better as a heel wrestler.
This comparison is almost as close as it gets.
It is too bad their egos were so huge, or else they could have worked more together.
The only wrestler in the business with a bigger ego than Michaels or Hart is Hogan. Those 3, along with the Ultimate Warrior, are probably the Mouth Rushmore of wrestling egos.
Michaels was better at the high-flying stuff, and Hart was a better technical wrestler with superior ring psychology.
I prefer Bret's in-ring style from an entertainment aspect, so I give him the slight edge there.
Michaels was better on the microphone, although Bret had his moments (especially any time he was a heel).
Truth be told, both were better as heels in my opinion. Both had a natural cockiness that worked better as a heel wrestler.
This comparison is almost as close as it gets.
It is too bad their egos were so huge, or else they could have worked more together.
The only wrestler in the business with a bigger ego than Michaels or Hart is Hogan. Those 3, along with the Ultimate Warrior, are probably the Mouth Rushmore of wrestling egos.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Hennig was someone I hated as a kid (character-wise), but I came to absolutely love his work as I got older.
We essentially lost Hennig in his prime (33) and arguably where he was one of the best performers in the business. The difference between him and Michaels is that Hennig was never able to come back at close to the same level.
Sheppy
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JackSlater
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I believe he meant that Hennig was 33 when his career as a consistent in-ring performer was over.
Some golden Canadiana there with Bret Hart, CHL hockey, and Lonesome Dove.
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
His face promos from that period are okay (better than face Diesel's for sure), but he did do a few too many awkward pauses at times and said, "ummm" and "ahhh" a bit too often.
His heel promos from '97 flow better.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
Watching through spring 1997 when Raw converted to a 2 hour format. It never ceases to amaze me how at even the mention of Shawn Michaels Vince starts smiling from ear to ear like a person who is completely head over heels in love. It's even worse with interviews. Vince just gazes at him with endless affection. The man crush was absolutely real.
I know this has nothing to do with Bret but he'd understand what I'm talking about.
I know this has nothing to do with Bret but he'd understand what I'm talking about.
JackSlater
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It's very true and fairly difficult to explain. Vince generally wanted a big huge guy... or Michaels, and it isn't as if Michaels was some cash cow for him. Vince freaking out on commentary to Michaels' douchey dancing in the ring will always be funny.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
It really is. I have no way to prove it but when discussing the HBK gimmick for the first time he probably saw Shawn sashay his shoulders and pelvic thrust and said "BY GOD!! THIS IT!" Vince's reactions just went so far beyond trying to put someone over. Vince stands next to the guy and you'd swear he's ready to say "I do" in eternal bromance. He was always a sucker for huge glistening muscles or pizzazz and I think Shawn Michaels just gave him more of the latter than anyone who had ever come before him. Again there's no way to prove it and I'm going for a massive reach here but I feel like whatever it was he did, Shawn won Vince over in a way no one ever did at a personal level. When you consider how much bullshit Vince put up with for Shawn's sake I don't think there's any way he did not actually love him.
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
Now as for Bret I only saw his matches. I never really saw him palling around with Owen and Bulldog dissing the shit out of America and all but declaring himself to be God. I've seen his matches sure. 5 f***ing stars all day anything he did. But this is my first real good look at Hitman 1997 doing his happenings outside the ring I gotta tell you, he gets his praise on the mic. But I still don't think it's enough. HBK will always have the legacy due to how he was utilized. But I really do think Bret exceeds him. Leading up to "Cold Day In Hell" feels like such a more polished version of Chris Jericho calling everyone "gelatinous hypocritical parasites" in the 2008 era or so
That's not a diss at Shawn Michaels either for as good as he was. It's like calling one Crosby and the other McDavid
That's not a diss at Shawn Michaels either for as good as he was. It's like calling one Crosby and the other McDavid
