Men's League Last Night

[BruinDust]

Do any of your league's have a rule where you get two minor penalties in a game and it results in a game misconduct? Because that is what one of my leagues has going on. Basically I got ejected from a playoff game for a hold and a trip. Personally I think in non-contact rec/beer league there is a big difference between hooking/holding/tripping/interference vs. body-checking/roughing/elbowing/kneeing/etc.

But essentially they treat all minors as equal and two weak calls in a game and your gonzo. I think it's excessive and causes more problems than it solves. I'm not even sure what the problem the rule solves or mitigates. So I can't defend hard because a guy could literally step on my stick and I'm ejected from the game if I have a previous minor? Maybe I'm just venting but I'd be interested to hear if any other leagues treat penalties the same way because it's the first time I've encountered it.

 

[Slats432]

Do any of your league's have a rule where you get two minor penalties in a game and it results in a game misconduct? Because that is what one of my leagues has going on. Basically I got ejected from a playoff game for a hold and a trip. Personally I think in non-contact rec/beer league there is a big difference between hooking/holding/tripping/interference vs. body-checking/roughing/elbowing/kneeing/etc.

But essentially they treat all minors as equal and two weak calls in a game and your gonzo. I think it's excessive and causes more problems than it solves. I'm not even sure what the problem the rule solves or mitigates. So I can't defend hard because a guy could literally step on my stick and I'm ejected from the game if I have a previous minor? Maybe I'm just venting but I'd be interested to hear if any other leagues treat penalties the same way because it's the first time I've encountered it.

The league I play and ref in has a 4 penalty rule. Another I know of has 3 stick infractions. 2 weak calls seems aggressive.

 

[Aces89]

My team tried to knock of the #1 seed after taking out the #2 seed in playoffs

 

[Yukon Joe]

Do any of your league's have a rule where you get two minor penalties in a game and it results in a game misconduct? Because that is what one of my leagues has going on. Basically I got ejected from a playoff game for a hold and a trip. Personally I think in non-contact rec/beer league there is a big difference between hooking/holding/tripping/interference vs. body-checking/roughing/elbowing/kneeing/etc.

But essentially they treat all minors as equal and two weak calls in a game and your gonzo. I think it's excessive and causes more problems than it solves. I'm not even sure what the problem the rule solves or mitigates. So I can't defend hard because a guy could literally step on my stick and I'm ejected from the game if I have a previous minor? Maybe I'm just venting but I'd be interested to hear if any other leagues treat penalties the same way because it's the first time I've encountered it.

My league ejects after 3 minor penalties in the same game. It makes no difference what the penalties are for. 2 penalties does seem aggressive, but it's not that "out there".

I think you hit upon the answer - they're discouraging physical play.

My league also gives you a 1 game suspension after 30 penalty minutes in the season. We had one guy riding 26 minutes in the lead-up to playoffs. Final regular season he was on his best behaviour and got zero PMs, but sure enough first playoff game he picks up 2 penalties. Good thing (?!) we lost the game and were out, I guess.

 

[BruinDust]

My league ejects after 3 minor penalties in the same game. It makes no difference what the penalties are for. 2 penalties does seem aggressive, but it's not that "out there".

I think you hit upon the answer - they're discouraging physical play.

My league also gives you a 1 game suspension after 30 penalty minutes in the season. We had one guy riding 26 minutes in the lead-up to playoffs. Final regular season he was on his best behaviour and got zero PMs, but sure enough first playoff game he picks up 2 penalties. Good thing (?!) we lost the game and were out, I guess.

If they are going to consider all minors the same across the board, I think I could live with 3 an then ejection. We play 45 mins. stopped time I think 3 in a game would be very rare.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Do any of your league's have a rule where you get two minor penalties in a game and it results in a game misconduct? Because that is what one of my leagues has going on. Basically I got ejected from a playoff game for a hold and a trip. Personally I think in non-contact rec/beer league there is a big difference between hooking/holding/tripping/interference vs. body-checking/roughing/elbowing/kneeing/etc.

But essentially they treat all minors as equal and two weak calls in a game and your gonzo. I think it's excessive and causes more problems than it solves. I'm not even sure what the problem the rule solves or mitigates. So I can't defend hard because a guy could literally step on my stick and I'm ejected from the game if I have a previous minor? Maybe I'm just venting but I'd be interested to hear if any other leagues treat penalties the same way because it's the first time I've encountered it.

Making the cutoff as low as 2 is a terrible idea, for two reasons:

1) All it takes is a single bad call by the referee. Say you get called for a phantom trip on your first shift. For the rest of the game, you're liable to be kicked out if someone steps on your stick or lifts your stick into their own face. That's just not fair to you as a player.

2) Because of #1, the refs aren't going to call anything short of bloody murder. Now you've got a game where perhaps the really dangerous stuff is still policed, but all kinds of interference crap is going to be let go.

 

[BruinDust]

Making the cutoff as low as 2 is a terrible idea, for two reasons:

1) All it takes is a single bad call by the referee. Say you get called for a phantom trip on your first shift. For the rest of the game, you're liable to be kicked out if someone steps on your stick or lifts your stick into their own face. That's just not fair to you as a player.

2) Because of #1, the refs aren't going to call anything short of bloody murder. Now you've got a game where perhaps the really dangerous stuff is still policed, but all kinds of interference crap is going to be let go.

Exactly. In my game I got a holding call mid-way into the game. It was borderline but whatever. The 2nd minor and the one that got me ejected was a phantom tripping call. Even the opposing player who fell said to me it wasn't a trip or a penalty. I knew it was an auto-ejection the second I heard the ref sing out my number so I didn't engage the ref for fear of an unsportsmanlike that would of suspended me for two games (effectively the remainder of the season).

We got two new refs when our season resumed a couple months ago and they love to call trips, holds, hooks, etc. My PIMs have gone up since they've arrived. Meanwhile I've seen a multiple full-on body-checks go unpenalized. Not open-ice jobs but along the wall.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Exactly. In my game I got a holding call mid-way into the game. It was borderline but whatever. The 2nd minor and the one that got me ejected was a phantom tripping call. Even the opposing player who fell said to me it wasn't a trip or a penalty. I knew it was an auto-ejection the second I heard the ref sing out my number so I didn't engage the ref for fear of an unsportsmanlike that would of suspended me for two games (effectively the remainder of the season).

We got two new refs when our season resumed a couple months ago and they love to call trips, holds, hooks, etc. My PIMs have gone up since they've arrived. Meanwhile I've seen a multiple full-on body-checks go unpenalized. Not open-ice jobs but along the wall.

I would not want to be a ref in a situation like that. You either swallow the whistle or you risk kicking a guy out for no reason. The whole game is just a countdown to the moment some unhinged Chad loses it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I would not want to be a ref in a situation like that. You either swallow the whistle or you risk kicking a guy out for no reason. The whole game is just a countdown to the moment some unhinged Chad loses it.

Honestly being a ref in rec hockey in any situation sounds pretty thankless.

 

[Primary Assist]

Making the cutoff as low as 2 is a terrible idea, for two reasons:

1) All it takes is a single bad call by the referee. Say you get called for a phantom trip on your first shift. For the rest of the game, you're liable to be kicked out if someone steps on your stick or lifts your stick into their own face. That's just not fair to you as a player.

2) Because of #1, the refs aren't going to call anything short of bloody murder. Now you've got a game where perhaps the really dangerous stuff is still policed, but all kinds of interference crap is going to be let go.

It also incentivizes diving - say the best player in the opponent gets called for an accidental high stick or something in the first period. For the rest of the game the other team's players would be rewarded if they dive to get him called for anything

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Almost all of the leagues I have played in have a the 3 penalty rule or a major and 2 if you it was a 5 and 10.

 

[BruinDust]

Honestly being a ref in rec hockey in any situation sounds pretty thankless.

It doesn't help that our league plays fairly late at night, so getting refs to commit is challenging enough. The guys that run the league tend to side with the refs 100% because they simply don't want to upset them and lose them. It is a thankless job, I wouldn't want to do it.

It also incentivizes diving - say the best player in the opponent gets called for an accidental high stick or something in the first period. For the rest of the game the other team's players would be rewarded if they dive to get him called for anything

It does. I think in leagues where you have teams with a couple guys who are head and shoulders above the rest of the team, sly opposing teams could use the 2 penalty rule to get a strong player ejected from the game.

Almost all of the leagues I have played in have a the 3 penalty rule or a major and 2 if you it was a 5 and 10.

After seeing the feedback in this thread, I'm starting to think moving to a 3 penalty rule might be the best way to resolve the issue. Won't be changed this season with 2 games left. But maybe bring it forward next year.



Thanks to all for their feedback.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It doesn't help that our league plays fairly late at night, so getting refs to commit is challenging enough. The guys that run the league tend to side with the refs 100% because they simply don't want to upset them and lose them. It is a thankless job, I wouldn't want to do it.

Yeah, it's one thing to hit the ice at 10:30 at night or whenever to actually play a game - you're at least getting the fun of playing hockey, the camaraderie of the dressing room, that kind of thing.

But as a ref you get what - $50 and get half the people pissed off at you all night.

 

[Slats432]

Yeah, it's one thing to hit the ice at 10:30 at night or whenever to actually play a game - you're at least getting the fun of playing hockey, the camaraderie of the dressing room, that kind of thing.

But as a ref you get what - $50 and get half the people pissed off at you all night.

Reffing put my kid through elite hockey. Probably have done about 2500 games. There are games that are fun, and after you have done enough games and know all the guys it isn't bad, but not what you consider fun. Playing is much better. My team has been together since 2004 and now that the kid is retired he is playing (at half speed mind you) with us old guys.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Winter league ended about one month ago. Hadn't played for a month until tonight with the start of summer league.

Hot damn, I missed playing hockey. That was fun.

 

[Nucks4Life]

If they are going to consider all minors the same across the board, I think I could live with 3 an then ejection. We play 45 mins. stopped time I think 3 in a game would be very rare.

not in some of the leagues I've played in the bozo's there! haha

 

[Slats432]

Winter league ended about one month ago. Hadn't played for a month until tonight with the start of summer league.

Hot damn, I missed playing hockey. That was fun.

Due to a long playoff run our offseason is a week. Back at it Thursday after winning last week. Will be fun, but no rest for the wicked.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There are games that are fun, and after you have done enough games and know all the guys it isn't bad, but not what you consider fun.

Not being a ref, I don't have the inside perspective on this. But from what I have seen, the refs that seem to have the most fun and take the least amount of shit from the players are the ones that are there every week and make at least a token effort at being approachable. Not that they have to be clowns or anything (that can actually go too far in the wrong direction) but just a little "hey guys let's have a good game" or a quick explanation of a penalty during intermission, just basic interactions. Once a team sees the same ref about 5-10 times they tend to form a strong opinion, and the ones who aren't overly hostile usually get a benefit of the doubt. Similar to how they either love or hate the goalies that play regularly, mostly based on their personality.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Rec league last night we're down 4-2. In the third period one of our better D-men cross-checks the other team in front of our goalie. Totally legit penalty is called.

Victim of the cross check doesn't just accept the penalty, gets up and starts pushing. Our guy pushes back. Two more guys from opposing team jump in. Our goalie grabs one of them.

Refs jump in to break it up. Now in the height of stupidity our D-man drops the gloves and challenges other team to a fight.

FFS dude - it's rec league hockey, and now you just got ejected from the game. 2 minutes for the cross-check, 2 minutes for roughing, and 10 for the game misconduct. And in a league where you get a 1 year suspension after 30 minutes of penalties in the summer, after your first game you now have 16 minutes (also picked one up first period).

I don't get what hockey does to some people.

 

[Slats432]

Not being a ref, I don't have the inside perspective on this. But from what I have seen, the refs that seem to have the most fun and take the least amount of shit from the players are the ones that are there every week and make at least a token effort at being approachable. Not that they have to be clowns or anything (that can actually go too far in the wrong direction) but just a little "hey guys let's have a good game" or a quick explanation of a penalty during intermission, just basic interactions. Once a team sees the same ref about 5-10 times they tend to form a strong opinion, and the ones who aren't overly hostile usually get a benefit of the doubt. Similar to how they either love or hate the goalies that play regularly, mostly based on their personality.

Take my word for it, no matter how good a job a ref does, some yoyo is going to complain about an offside, even if they have it wrong. I work with the teams, chat, joke, but there is no pleasing some players/teams.

 

[Slats432]

Rec league last night we're down 4-2. In the third period one of our better D-men cross-checks the other team in front of our goalie. Totally legit penalty is called.

Victim of the cross check doesn't just accept the penalty, gets up and starts pushing. Our guy pushes back. Two more guys from opposing team jump in. Our goalie grabs one of them.

Refs jump in to break it up. Now in the height of stupidity our D-man drops the gloves and challenges other team to a fight.

FFS dude - it's rec league hockey, and now you just got ejected from the game. 2 minutes for the cross-check, 2 minutes for roughing, and 10 for the game misconduct. And in a league where you get a 1 year suspension after 30 minutes of penalties in the summer, after your first game you now have 16 minutes (also picked one up first period).

I don't get what hockey does to some people.

My team played last night, but I am on the IR with a back injury. (That started with a crosscheck in playoffs). I am there to watch since my kid is still playing for us.

Very close game, fairly physical, but not super dirty. They are up 4-3. Our forward bumps a guy, and he falls pretty easy. Our guy starts beaking pretty aggressively and loudly. The guy starts skating towards our forward. My kid (6'4, 240), sticks his arm out in a non aggressive way to direct the guy away from our forward. The guy trips over someone's stick and falls down. He gets up and punches my kid right in the mush.

My kid winds up cold cocks the guy. Heater, flurry, uppercut to the solar plexes. (Well he threw about 5 punches in a few seconds) before the refs pulled the other guys away. Kid was ejected (No game misconduct, just leave the ice and no suspension). We ended up down 5-3. Boys went down and scored short by two to tie, and won in the shootout. LOL.

I talked with the refs, who I know both well. They said, they gave the kid only a 4 min and game ejection because the other guy started it. Haha.

Here is the one thing I don't understand. Someone will start some shit with my kid. He ends it pretty quick.

Personally if I see a guy that big, that has played at a high level, (Still wearing AAA pants), I know that I don't try that guy....it isn't going to end well for me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Take my word for it, no matter how good a job a ref does, some yoyo is going to complain about an offside, even if they have it wrong.

Hey, I know that guy!

 

[ChuckLefley]

My team played last night, but I am on the IR with a back injury. (That started with a crosscheck in playoffs). I am there to watch since my kid is still playing for us.

Very close game, fairly physical, but not super dirty. They are up 4-3. Our forward bumps a guy, and he falls pretty easy. Our guy starts beaking pretty aggressively and loudly. The guy starts skating towards our forward. My kid (6'4, 240), sticks his arm out in a non aggressive way to direct the guy away from our forward. The guy trips over someone's stick and falls down. He gets up and punches my kid right in the mush.

My kid winds up cold cocks the guy. Heater, flurry, uppercut to the solar plexes. (Well he threw about 5 punches in a few seconds) before the refs pulled the other guys away. Kid was ejected (No game misconduct, just leave the ice and no suspension). We ended up down 5-3. Boys went down and scored short by two to tie, and won in the shootout. LOL.

I talked with the refs, who I know both well. They said, they gave the kid only a 4 min and game ejection because the other guy started it. Haha.

Here is the one thing I don't understand. Someone will start some shit with my kid. He ends it pretty quick.

Personally if I see a guy that big, that has played at a high level, (Still wearing AAA pants), I know that I don't try that guy....it isn't going to end well for me.

He should have gotten suspended. It doesn’t matter who starts it.

 

[Slats432]

He should have gotten suspended. It doesn’t matter who starts it.

Not my call big guy

 

[beakerboy]

He should have gotten suspended. It doesn’t matter who starts it.

Goes back to the discussion of the refs and them knowing you and how you play. They know the kid isn't the sort to start anything and got attacked? Yeah, we'll let the first one slide.