Confirmed with Link: Meier, Harrington, 3 prospects, Col's '24 5th to Devils for 2023 1st, Zetterlund, Johanson, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, conditional 2024 1st, '24 7th

[Pinkfloyd]

If the first weren’t conditional, far less people would be complaining about it, I don’t think the devils have the goaltending or the defensive depth to push that deep into playoffs.


What part of top 3-5 prospect wasn’t clear?

Muk is very easy to argue as a top 5 prospect in New Jersey. Again, what's the problem? Before the season started, Muk could be argued in that 5-7 range as was Zetterlund.

 

[STL Shark]

If the first weren’t conditional, far less people would be complaining about it, I don’t think the devils have the goaltending or the defensive depth to push that deep into playoffs.


What part of top 3-5 prospect wasn’t clear?

The part where you followed it up saying not a 5-15 prospect. Is 5 okay or is it not okay?

And even then, by all accounts Muk is held in higher esteem at this point than Holtz. If NJ's top prospects are Hughes and Nemec, Muk is right there in conversation for somewhere between 3 and 5 amongst Casey and Schmid.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

The part where you followed it up saying not a 5-15 prospect. Is 5 okay or is it not okay?

And even then, by all accounts Muk is held in higher esteem at this point than Holtz. If NJ's top prospects are Hughes and Nemec, Muk is right there in conversation for somewhere between 3 and 5 amongst Casey and Schmid.

Let’s also not forget Holtz was never brought up. His perceived value here vs what Greier thinks of him are completely opposite.

Also, whatever Muk was in the NJ pipeline is completely irrelevant to his worth. It’s like saying NJ had 1OA, 2OA, and 3OA and only traded us the 3RD OA, which is their lowest pick and therefore garbage.

 

[timorous me]

Muk is very easy to argue as a top 5 prospect in New Jersey. Again, what's the problem? Before the season started, Muk could be argued in that 5-7 range as was Zetterlund.

It's interesting to see how Corey Pronman at the Athletic has shifted on Muk over the past year. Since August, he's said Muk's moved ahead of Holtz (#7 to #5 with the Devils--and as we know, not all systems are created equal, so someone's #5 could be better than another's #3), and in Pronman's overall U-23 rankings, Muk has moved up from #105 in August to #68 in January. That's a big jump!

So he's trending in the right direction, which is big, so while he may not have the pedigree of some, that doesn't mean he's not going to be a nice (potentially very nice) add for the Sharks' blue line.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's interesting to see how Corey Pronman at the Athletic has shifted on Muk over the past year. Since August, he's said Muk's moved ahead of Holtz (#7 to #5 with the Devils--and as we know, not all systems are created equal, so someone's #5 could be better than another's #3), and in Pronman's overall U-23 rankings, Muk has moved up from #105 in August to #68 in January. That's a big jump!

So he's trending in the right direction, which is big, so while he may not have the pedigree of some, that doesn't mean he's not going to be a nice (potentially very nice) add for the Sharks' blue line.

I expect Muk to be in the Sharks' lineup either late next season or starting the 2024-25 season. Whether he'll be anything more than depth is going to be up to him. It's not like anyone is going to be in the way.

 

[hohosaregood]

If the first weren’t conditional, far less people would be complaining about it, I don’t think the devils have the goaltending or the defensive depth to push that deep into playoffs.


What part of top 3-5 prospect wasn’t clear?

Who do you think their top 3-5 prospects are?

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

The part where you followed it up saying not a 5-15 prospect. Is 5 okay or is it not okay?

And even then, by all accounts Muk is held in higher esteem at this point than Holtz. If NJ's top prospects are Hughes and Nemec, Muk is right there in conversation for somewhere between 3 and 5 amongst Casey and Schmid.

He’s considered 5th best defensive prospect, not 5th overall that means there’s 4 guys ahead of him so it’s outside of that in the 5-15 range

 

[tiburon12]

I dont think he got the worst value in the world, but I think hes focused on the wrong assets and strategy.
I think hes so focused on this idea of a hard working bottom six that he forgot our team sucks and we need the rest of a team as well.

Counterpoint, i thought the general consensus on this board is that you only get top talent through the top end of the draft. If that's true, then why was the expectation to get top talent via trade?

 

[one2gamble]

Counterpoint, i thought the general consensus on this board is that you only get top talent through the top end of the draft. If that's true, then why was the expectation to get top talent via trade?

Quantity vs Quality

 

[timorous me]

He’s considered 5th best defensive prospect, not 5th overall that means there’s 4 guys ahead of him so it’s outside of that in the 5-15 range

By all recent accounts I've seen, Mukhmadullin had either passed or gotten about equal with Casey for #3 D in the Devils' prospect pool. Pronman, for instance, had him #3 with Casey not even in his top 100 U-23. The two Muk was behind? #14 and #40 in the whole league (all players, not defensemen).

Complain if you want, but your assessment of Mukhmadullin seems out-of-date. He's a pretty big riser thanks to a very solid performance in the KHL this year at age 20. But that's been somewhat under the radar for obvious reasons.

 

[themelkman]

Counterpoint, i thought the general consensus on this board is that you only get top talent through the top end of the draft. If that's true, then why was the expectation to get top talent via trade?

The exception to that is usually trading top talent. I dont know if Grier couldve got an offer with a top prospect, but I think I wouldve rather gotten more picks than some of the stuff we did.

 

[Mattb124]

If the 1st rounder wasn’t conditional I’d probably be less critical about it. I’m also tired of hearing the excuses for Grier, first the Burns trade was due to it being a limited market, that same courtesy should not be extended on this trade.

I wasnt expecting Hughes like some other clowns, but it should’ve been at least a top 3-5 prospect not the bottom 5-15 Some devils fans have gone as far saying the sharks got their 5th best defensive prospect that’s no bueno lol

Who do you think NJD's top 5 prospects were at the time of the trade?

Looking at the Athletic's 2023 prospect ranking (Wheeler), Muk was the #5 prospect - from the second best prospect pool in the NHL. Their #4 was Casey who the Sharks passed on in the last draft by taking Havelid (very similar player) just before him. #3 was Holtz who I am guessing we didn't have an interest in. The other 2, Hughes and Nemec, were untouchable.

He’s considered 5th best defensive prospect, not 5th overall that means there’s 4 guys ahead of him so it’s outside of that in the 5-15 range

By who? I read on the internet the earth is flat, so it must be true.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

For those who are disappointed in the return on Meier, this is what you get when you are the seller in a forced deal. Doug Wilson lived on buying star players whose teams had to trade them because of upcoming UFA status or other reasons. That's why some here still think Wilson was brilliant in his trades, but he feasted on those in a weak position. Here are those trades over the years with their return and the ages of the players:

2019: Karlsson (28) for 1 1st round pick, 2 2nd round picks, DeMelo, Tierney, Balcers, and Norris (recent 1st round pick)
2018: EKane (26) for O'Regan, 1st round pick, 4th round pick
2011: Burns (26) for Setoguchi, Coyle (recent 1st round pick), 1st round pick
2009: Heatley (28) for Mihalek, Cheechoo, 2th round pick
2008: Boyle (32) for Carle, Wishart (recent 1st round pick), 1st round pick, 4th round pick
2008: Campbell (28, rental) for Bernier, 1st round pick
2007: Guerin (36, rental) for Nieminen, Barriball, 1st round pick

The Meier trade:
Meier (26) for Mukhamadulin (recent 1st round pick), Zetterlund, Okhutiuk, cap dump, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick

Compared to the Wilson trades, the return for Meier looks good, particularly for a rebuilding team as the included players are young. Only the return on Karlsson is better, but Karlsson is a much better player than Meier.

 

[GRANdSharks]

I think the return is really good even if the 2024 1st is a 2nd. Zetturlund is a solid peice with room to grow, mukhamadulin is an extreamly intresting prospect and is probably above bordeleau in our pool imo. And we add a 1st in an extreamly deep draft to add to our pool.

Meier is a great player but he isn't the best player on a cup winning team. The sharks need to acumalate as much ammo and cap as possible so we can not only get someone to build around but surround them with enough talent and depth to Contend.

 

[OrrNumber4]

For those who are disappointed in the return on Meier, this is what you get when you are the seller in a forced deal. Doug Wilson lived on buying star players whose teams had to trade them because of upcoming UFA status or other reasons. That's why some here still think Wilson was brilliant in his trades, but he feasted on those in a weak position. Here are those trades over the years with their return and the ages of the players:

2019: Karlsson (28) for 1 1st round pick, 2 2nd round picks, DeMelo, Tierney, Balcers, and Norris (recent 1st round pick)
2018: EKane (26) for O'Regan, 1st round pick, 4th round pick
2011: Burns (26) for Setoguchi, Coyle (recent 1st round pick), 1st round pick
2009: Heatley (28) for Mihalek, Cheechoo, 2th round pick
2008: Boyle (32) for Carle, Wishart (recent 1st round pick), 1st round pick, 4th round pick
2008: Campbell (28, rental) for Bernier, 1st round pick
2007: Guerin (36, rental) for Nieminen, Barriball, 1st round pick

The Meier trade:
Meier (26) for Mukhamadulin (recent 1st round pick), Zetterlund, Okhutiuk, cap dump, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick

Compared to the Wilson trades, the return for Meier looks good, particularly for a rebuilding team as the included players are young. Only the return on Karlsson is better, but Karlsson is a much better player than Meier.

I will never tire of pointing out that the Sharks also received a 2nd-round-pick in the Burns trade.

Also, fans were irate at the Campbell trade and disappointed by the Boyle trade. Let's also not forget trading Brad Boyes for Curtis Brown.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I will never tire of pointing out that the Sharks also received a 2nd-round-pick in the Burns trade.

Also, fans were irate at the Campbell trade and disappointed by the Boyle trade. Let's also not forget trading Brad Boyes for Curtis Brown.

Didn’t the 2nd round pick turn out to be Matt Nieto? Whereas the 1st we traded to Minnesota (Zack Phillips) ended up was a full-fledged bust.

 

[Alaskanice]

Didn’t the 2nd round pick turn out to be Matt Nieto? Whereas the 1st we traded to Minnesota (Zack Phillips) ended up was a full-fledged bust.

Yes

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Didn’t the 2nd round pick turn out to be Matt Nieto? Whereas the 1st we traded to Minnesota (Zack Phillips) ended up was a full-fledged bust.

The 2nd round pick they got from Minnesota in the Burns trade was used to rent Dom Moore. The pick that was used to select Matt Nieto coincidentally, was originally Montreal's pick that they used to rent Dom Moore also from Florida. Florida then swapped with us for a 2nd and a 3rd that was eventually Shayne Gostisbehere.

 

[sharski]

“Anaheim claims Scott Harrington off waivers from New Jersey.”

Sounds like Harrington was the real loser in this whole transaction…

Ducks 4-D checkmating again

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

It seems like the general consensus amongst various scouts and reporters is that Grier got a lot of complimentary players, only problem is what are they complimenting?

 

[Cas]

It seems like the general consensus amongst various scouts and reporters is that Grier got a lot of complimentary players, only problem is what are they get complimenting?

I don't think it's likely that he'll get any impact players. We will have to draft those.

 

[Jargon]

It seems like the general consensus amongst various scouts and reporters is that Grier got a lot of complimentary players, only problem is what are they get complimenting?

Our high draft pick from this season, Eklund, Bordeleau, Mukh, Thrun, our (likely) high draft pick from next season, etc.

You're not going to get a high-end player in trades like that, you get picks to find players like that. But you do get higher-end complimentary players. If we draft well and get some luck (Bedard, ahem), we should be able to pick up a #1 C and a #1 D in the next 3 years -- and those guys can come into a team that, hopefully, is full of players who can ease them in and help them grow.

A rebuild is a slow process.

 

[timorous me]

It seems like the general consensus amongst various scouts and reporters is that Grier got a lot of complimentary players, only problem is what are they complimenting?

The scouts' comments on Mukhmadullin were quite positive. I like that at least one of them sees potential for top pairing upside. That would be huge, considering the state of our defense.

 

[Brodeur]

For THN's upcoming Future Watch issue, they'll have Mukhamadullin as the #42 overall prospect.