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MDZ in SJ?

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BlueshirtBlitz said:
AV gives John Moore the cushiest possible minutes you could give a d-man while still calling him a d-man.

Moore was bad this year. VERY bad. If I have to take either or, I take DZ, since at least DZ has a track record of being good.
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Moore was very bad? Or you want him to be bad? Moore the second half of the season and in the playoffs played very well.

DZ was getting scratched. It's not even a comparison at this point, Moore was massively better than DZ
 
Keep thinking what you want.

MDZ got scratched, sure. Nashville wouldn't have even had John Moore in the lineup.

Moore is not (right now) a good hockey player. DZ has shown he could be a better hockey player than John Moore is.

MDZ had a bad year-- two years ago he was three times the player John Moore was. You don't care what happened 2 years ago in regards to a 24 year old? That's your prerogative.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
Keep thinking what you want.

MDZ got scratched, sure. Nashville wouldn't have even had John Moore in the lineup.
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Keep thinking what you want. I suppose in fantasy land Moore was scratched while DZ was spectacular

Moore is not (right now) a good hockey player. DZ has shown he could be a better hockey player than John Moore is.
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Moore is indeed a good hockey player. DZ is not even signed by anyone.

MDZ had a bad year-- two years ago he was three times the player John Moore was. You don't care what happened 2 years ago in regards to a 24 year old? That's your prerogative.
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MDZ has had multiple bad years in a row. I could careless what MDZ once was. He is not that player anymore.
 
MDZ has had two bad years in a row. In his bad year last year, he was still arguably better than John Moore was in this supposed acceptable year for him.

Sorry, John Moore sucks.
 
John Moore does suck.

I can't wait till Conor Allen takes his place, hell, anyone takes his place.
 
You know DZ has played top 4 minutes his entire time with the Rangers except under AV. During that time, ups and downs taken into consideration, he has played well for long stretches and scored at a .5 PPG and helped the team clinch two game 7s with clutch goals.

Moore has never cracked the top 4, and cost the team several OT playoff games in the last two seasons. AV and Ulfie played JMoore in a sheltered role this playoff and the Rangers won because of that. DZ's minutes were never sheltered.

I think the inconsistencies in DZ's game draw more attention to his bad over the good he did. JMoore's had a decent sample size in a Ranger uniform, what you see is what you get. He hasn't earned a higher spot in the line up, and is a guy that needs to be sheltered. That isn't the case with any of the other DMen on the current roster, and JMoore doesn't step up, he'll be trade bait.

I'll take a guy who can score and play in the top 4 over a that can't.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
MDZ has had two bad years in a row. In his bad year last year, he was still arguably better than John Moore was in this supposed acceptable year for him.

Sorry, John Moore sucks.
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Moore is ok, but DelZaster was one of the most over rated players I have seen in a while. Plain and simple he did suck and that point is now proven by the Preds basically cutting him
 
Mikos87 said:
You know DZ has played top 4 minutes his entire time with the Rangers except under AV. During that time, ups and downs taken into consideration, he has played well for long stretches and scored at a .5 PPG and helped the team clinch two game 7s with clutch goals.

Moore has never cracked the top 4, and cost the team several OT playoff games in the last two seasons. AV and Ulfie played JMoore in a sheltered role this playoff and the Rangers won because of that. DZ's minutes were never sheltered.

I think the inconsistencies in DZ's game draw more attention to his bad over the good he did. JMoore's had a decent sample size in a Ranger uniform, what you see is what you get. He hasn't earned a higher spot in the line up, and is a guy that needs to be sheltered. That isn't the case with any of the other DMen on the current roster, and JMoore doesn't step up, he'll be trade bait.

I'll take a guy who can score and play in the top 4 over a that can't.
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I guess Nashville didn't agree with your assessment of that top 4 DMan known as the great Crapzotto
 
They both aren't good is the bottom line here.

But...Moore is more comfy with less minutes & fewer expectations.

Del Zotto is seemingly playing himself out of the league.

MDZ was in one of the top D-man factories in Nashville, initially playing with Seth Jones for crying out loud & still managed to have 2 solid, competent hockey minds(Trotz & Poile) give up on him. And in Poile's case, that is with an offensive-minded coach in Laviolette now on board.
 
THE BIG WHISTLE said:
I guess Nashville didn't agree with your assessment of that top 4 DMan known as the great Crapzotto
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His game fell off no doubt; and my assumption is that his off ice antics finally caught up to him. In terms of talent and body of work, its DZ over JMoore. Right now, DZ needs to clean himself up.
 
MDZ has some tools but no toolbox. Guy is awful defensively. I surely dont miss him laying on his ass after an opposition goal. J. Moore has had spurts of inconsistency. But is much more reliable when he's on.
 
Del Zotto plateaued two years ago and since then has regressed. Parsing away two bad years in a row--wow!--there's no excuse for any player having two bad years in a row--it simply comes down to that he is a wreck. Nashville gave up a good player for him and gives up on him after 20 some games and several times scratching him--what does that tell you? He didn't help them at all and not qualifying him pretty much tells the story of that. He reminds of Don Murdoch---came into the league like a house on fire and burned the ****ed out--part of that was the night life. He never got back to where he was and Murdoch was a more talented player than DZ.
 
eco's bones said:
Del Zotto plateaued two years ago and since then has regressed. Parsing away two bad years in a row--wow!--there's no excuse for any player having two bad years in a row--it simply comes down to that he is a wreck. Nashville gave up a good player for him and gives up on him after 20 some games and several times scratching him--what does that tell you? He didn't help them at all and not qualifying him pretty much tells the story of that. He reminds of Don Murdoch---came into the league like a house on fire and burned the ****ed out--part of that was the night life. He never got back to where he was and Murdoch was a more talented player than DZ.
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I agree with your comparsion with Murdoch, he had 50 goal scorer written all over him. He definitely burned out but not because he didn't have the talent but as you said way too much partying. DelZotto on the other hand was more hype than actual physical talent. He doesn't handle the puck well, he can't stick handle and he has no speed. IMHO, he is a poor man's James Patrick, yes he played a lot of years in the league but he never lived up to the hype of the type if player he was going to be
 
Murdoch is a good parable, but so is Ric Middleton. That "trade" happened because of off ice issues. I'll leave it at night life and women. Rick turned it around in a tighter environment in Boston.

DZ is very much in the same boat, another guy that turned it around is Joffrey lupul. There was a reason why lupul was traded repeatedly.
 
eco's bones said:
Del Zotto plateaued two years ago and since then has regressed. Parsing away two bad years in a row--wow!--there's no excuse for any player having two bad years in a row--it simply comes down to that he is a wreck. Nashville gave up a good player for him and gives up on him after 20 some games and several times scratching him--what does that tell you? He didn't help them at all and not qualifying him pretty much tells the story of that. He reminds of Don Murdoch---came into the league like a house on fire and burned the ****ed out--part of that was the night life. He never got back to where he was and Murdoch was a more talented player than DZ.
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Well if John Moore sucks next year, he too has regressed after a decent handful of games with the Rangers last year. As of now, he's a detriment to our D-corp.

The issue isn't if MDZ sucks right now: he does. But he didn't suck 2 years ago. The issue is that John Moore is a barely serviceable NHL d-man, and i'd take the guy who put up 40 points once over John Moore any day of the week.
 
SA16 said:
John Moore is plenty servicable and much better defensively than DZ.
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John Moore gets sheltered so much that Matt Gilroy would be serviceable in the minutes he gets.

The problem is the only time Moore was serviceable was in the playoffs when he was sheltered EVEN MORE.

He's not good.
 
"Sheltering" is not really a real complaint. No matter who was on our third line they would appear to be "sheltered" and face a low quality of opponent because our top pairing is so good we play them as much as possible and always against the top opponents. Our bottom pairing is going to face the weaker guys no matter what and they should - that's called good coaching. I'm not sure why we would want our third pairing to face the other teams top guys. Matt Gilroy did a similar thing, Stu Bickel a similar thing and they were not serviceable at all in their third pairing role they were constant disasters. Moore is not that.
 
But really, he wasn't bad. He was perfectly acceptable as a third pairing defenseman. Are you expecting to have 6 shut down defenseman? What information are you using to say he was sheltered?
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
It is, because he was sheltered and was STILL BAD.
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I seriously think some of you watch games with your heads up your butt.

If anyone really thinks MDZ is better now than Moore they are going to need some incredible proof for that kind of a claim.

MDZ doesn't even have a job in the nhl at this point

I fail to see how continually saying "Moore sucks" is a more valuable thing than actually watching what their teams decided to do with them all season. MDZ constantly benched. Moore started just about every game he was eligible for including all of them in the playoffs.

MDZ wasent even resigned. They preferred to let him leave.
 
SA16 said:
But really, he wasn't bad. He was perfectly acceptable as a third pairing defenseman. Are you expecting to have 6 shut down defenseman? What information are you using to say he was sheltered?
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slipknottin said:
I seriously think some of you watch games with your heads up your butt.

If anyone really thinks MDZ is better now than Moore they are going to need some incredible proof for that kind of a claim.

MDZ doesn't even have a job in the nhl at this point

I fail to see how continually saying "Moore sucks" is a more valuable thing than actually watching what their teams decided to do with them all season. MDZ constantly benched. Moore started just about every game he was eligible for including all of them in the playoffs.

MDZ wasent even resigned. They preferred to let him leave.
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Here's the Rangers player usage chart.

e9j3.png


You see that guy all the way on the bottom right? That's John Moore. That means he faced the weakest competition on the team and also got the 2nd most offensive zone starts (besides Brad Richards). As you can also see, his circle is not blue, which means he struggled to help the team get the puck and attack with it. Before you say "but I want my d-men to defend!!!11" the fact that he's starting so many shifts in the offensive zone, yet he's still bad at getting the puck, means that the opposition is getting the puck into our zone and putting pucks on net when he's on the ice.

For comparison, here's Boston (the only team in the East better than us this year)--

cfld.png


I don't see any defender nearly as bad as John Moore here, do you? Krug faced soft competition and got a ton of o-zone starts: he also dominated possession.

edit- Forgot to mention Kevan Miller. Kevan Miller is not a very good NHL d-man, would you say? Yet he's very comparable to John Moore.

John Moore is NOT a good hockey player.
 
Lmao. A player usage chart is your evidence? Please. That's not evidence of how good a player is at all, and you know it.
 
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