McDavid v. Makar

[abo9]

The only series McDavid has ever had with such poor possession metrics was the Anaheim series when he was still very young. Colorado had really bad goaltending so he still put up points but make no mistake, it’s been years since he went up against a player and got dominated in producing scoring chances.

The two coaches told the story, Edmonton did everything in their power to get McDavid away from Makar and Colorado did everything they could do to get Makar out there against McDavid. It’s very rare for McDavid to lose the shots/scoring chances/possession battle like he did against Makar.

And still, McDavid found a way to put up the points - to outscore Colorado when he was on the ice.

Hockey is not a 1 vs 1 sport. McDavid can tilt the ice all they want, there are other players out there that can make or break a game. Apart from Draisaitl, no player on Edmonton compares to guys like Mack, Rantanen, Landeskog, they have no Byram, no D. Toews, etc.

This is valid for Makar too btw. He can't do everything on his own.

Using a playoff a single series where both McDavid and Makar excelled to argue that either one is better is dumb. McDavid has been the better player all year and for a while now.

 

[Eltuna]

And still, McDavid found a way to put up the points - to outscore Colorado when he was on the ice.

Hockey is not a 1 vs 1 sport. McDavid can tilt the ice all they want, there are other players out there that can make or break a game. Apart from Draisaitl, no player on Edmonton compares to guys like Mack, Rantanen, Landeskog, they have no Byram, no D. Toews, etc.

This is valid for Makar too btw. He can't do everything on his own.

Using a playoff a single series where both McDavid and Makar excelled to argue that either one is better is dumb. McDavid has been the better player all year and for a while now.

Agreed McDavid is the better player, very much disagree that he played great against the Avs or that him and Makar were even similar to one another in the series. Not sure if you watched the games but looking at the counting stats really don’t tell the story, the possession metrics are much more indicative of what was happening on the ice. When the two were out there together McDavid was hemmed in his own zone for some seriously long stretches and struggled to maintain any type of sustained offensive pressure.

 

[nightonthesun]

I take Makar because I'm a homer and also because, if I'm choosing a start point, I'd rather build around the very best defenseman than the very best forward. Mostly I'm just a homer. "Find a Cale Makar somewhere"

 

[Rengorlex]

Agreed McDavid is the better player, very much disagree that he played great against the Avs or that him and Makar were even similar to one another in the series. Not sure if you watched the games but looking at the counting stats really don’t tell the story, the possession metrics are much more indicative of what was happening on the ice. When the two were out there together McDavid was hemmed in his own zone for some seriously long stretches and struggled to maintain any type of sustained offensive pressure.

I have re-watched the entire series and I disagree with this. The only game where this is true is G2.

 

[GreeningOil]

Cups/ Conn Smythe
Makar 1 of each
Mcdavid 0
Norris 1 and second place not including rookie year.

Ah yes the Norris. If McD was on defense and scored 120 points he’d win that too. Norris means offensive (and half ass competent defensively) player the last 10 years

 

[Hisch13r]

I take Makar because I'm a homer and also because, if I'm choosing a start point, I'd rather build around the very best defenseman than the very best forward. Mostly I'm just a homer. "Find a Cale Makar somewhere"

I really don't understand the whole "D are more valuable than F" argument. It's pretty much never true. Outside of Orr the best player has never consistently been a Dman. There's only a handful of years over the last 40-50 years where the best Dman was better than the best forward. If you look at the top 10 year to year it's overwhelmingly forwards in comparison to Dmen. Forwards on average provide more value.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don’t know how anybody could think that McDavid outplayed Makar in that conference final series.

9 points to 7 in favour of Makar, who is a defenceman. Makar drove possession at higher rate when they were on the ice against each other too.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It's obvious when you watch makar he is the king of the NHL. Literally like bobby orr out there

 

[The Nuge]

Also a much better golfer.

He’s actually not. McDavid’s a 12 cap and Makar’s a 6

 

[Paul4587]

Nonsense.

The Oilers have plenty of quality pieces around McDavid. This narrative that the Oilers don’t have a supporting cast around him is false.

Just completely taking away any credit from Makar in driving his team to a Stanley Cup is just silly too. That’s literally the goal of playing the sport. It was one of the all-time great playoff performances by a defenceman.

I’m not taking any credit away. Makar is a great player. Second best in the game IMO. But McDavid is in a tier of his own.

And the Oilers have some good pieces up front around McDavid but their blueline is at best league average and with a broken Nurse was below average. They won two series in spite of their D core. Smith is as erratic as it gets in net also.

 

[Romang67]

Did Justin Williams dominate mcdavid head to head in a series while winning the Smythe with the best playoff by a d man in say 30 years?

Makar was outscored 5v5 against McDavid in the Oilers-Avs series. I feel like this tends to be ignored when people claim that Makar dominated McDavid in that series.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I’m not taking any credit away. Makar is a great player. Second best in the game IMO. But McDavid is in a tier of his own.

And the Oilers have some good pieces up front around McDavid but their blueline is at best league average and with a broken Nurse was below average. They won two series in spite of their D core. Smith is as erratic as it gets in net also.

Did you see the Avs goaltending in the playoffs? It was historically bad.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I voted Makar. I am an Avs fan and wear my bias proudly.

McDavid is unquestionably the most dominant offensive force in the game. It can't be argued. He stands alone.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Makar was outscored 5v5 against McDavid in the Oilers-Avs series. I feel like this tends to be ignored when people claim that Makar dominated McDavid in that series.

Good thing makar is a d man

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Everyone looks like they're hanging on for dear life defending McDavid. They may be successful, for a series, or a game, but we all know who the top dog is.

 

[bobholly39]

I take Makar because I'm a homer and also because, if I'm choosing a start point, I'd rather build around the very best defenseman than the very best forward. Mostly I'm just a homer. "Find a Cale Makar somewhere"

Picking him because he's your favorite player is a very valid reason.

Objectively - McDavid is simply better and more valuable. And it helps that McDavid is coming off his playoffs last year, insane performance, with still room to grow, so he doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon.

 

[nightonthesun]

I really don't understand the whole "D are more valuable than F" argument. It's pretty much never true. Outside of Orr the best player has never consistently been a Dman. There's only a handful of years over the last 40-50 years where the best Dman was better than the best forward. If you look at the top 10 year to year it's overwhelmingly forwards in comparison to Dmen. Forwards on average provide more value.

Never made such a sweeping argument and really don't want to get into the weeds about it. Just deciding, as a homer with Stanley Cup-tinted glasses, between these two very special players for a hypothetical fantasy draft. There's probably an argument to be made that there's more high-end options at F than at D in a draft, but every time I start to type out the details, I get bored.

I'll just continue to quote Gabe Landeskog, who, when asked what other teams might try to emulate after their win, said only: "Find a Cale Makar somewhere." It's a copycat league and I'm here to copy. Surely McDavid will make that moot with a cup of his own very soon.

In case it satisfies anyone for whatever reason, I am aware that McDavid is the best player in the world.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Close this thread, it’s McDavid and it’s not close.

 

[LTIR]

Mcdavid didn't go to college

This is why Makar is better... McDavid couldnt even get into a university.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Good thing makar is a d man

Your arguments are putrid.

No shit. We know this. You’re the one who was claiming that he shut down McDavid. Stats say otherwise.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Your arguments are putrid.

No shit. We know this. You’re the one who was claiming that he shut down McDavid. Stats say otherwise.

Makar controlled the play n it was delightful to see mcdavid trying to get by him N get stopped like a peewee player.

 

[Romang67]

Makar controlled the play n it was delightful to see mcdavid trying to get by him N get stopped like a peewee player.

Again, Edmonton outscored the Avs 5v5 when McDavid and Makar were both on the ice.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that Makar is a D-man.

 

[Buck Naked]

It's obvious when you watch makar he is the king of the NHL. Literally like bobby orr out there

You need to look up the meaning of the word literally.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Makar controlled the play n it was delightful to see mcdavid trying to get by him N get stopped like a peewee player.

You were literally shown that this take is wrong.

 

[Regal]

Again, Edmonton outscored the Avs 5v5 when McDavid and Makar were both on the ice.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that Makar is a D-man.

Goals are a small sample though. The possession metrics were heavily tilted to the Avs at roughly 60-40