Wondercarrot
By The Power of Canadian Tire Centre
- Jul 2, 2002
- 8,175
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lol at a old broken down Gretzky right in the middle of elite Hall of Famers in their prime.
McDavid taps out Peter Fosberg
- Thread starter Mulletman
- Start date
lol at a old broken down Gretzky right in the middle of elite Hall of Famers in their prime.
McFlash97
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2017
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- 8,519
Jaromir Jagr played in some of the wildest high scoring eras from 91 to 96. DPE really only started to get a foothold after. Nice try though. If McDavids era is so "wide open" why has he lapped every other player in at least 2 of his scoring titles ? I mean he beat out Sidney fn Crosby In his sophomore season. What was Jagr up to ?
Too easy
McDavid is already a top 5 alltime legend if he never played another game. That is what people will be talking about in 20 years, I doubt Forsberg will even be mentioned by anyone but hardcore Avs fans.
avsfan9
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2011
- 4,079
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If Mcdavid never plays another game there are no cups and no international success, he doesn’t come close to top 5 all time if he gave it up today. Lots of career left see what he does with it. It’s funny when people talk about other players compared to Mcdavid and Draisaitl, it’s always what if Mcdavid and Draisaitl played on such and such a team like this guy did. The oilers have a pretty big turnover of roster players every year and the same result. Maybe it’s time to put the onus on these guys instead of blaming the team around them. Stop bailing at the blue line all the time and play a 200 foot game. As soon as the puck is touched by their team in their end they are gone up the ice only for the puck to be turned over and in the back of their net. Same old song and dance with the oilers.
McDavid and Draisaitl are literally the best 2 playoff players in the salary cap era. That is a statistical fact. 1 & 2 in PPG and 3rd is not close.
To use them as examples of why the Oilers haven’t been able to win instead of the brutal goaltending, bad defense and overall lack of depth is just strange. The 200ft crap is an overplayed narrative. They are both fine defensively. If they wanted to make drastic changes to their defense there would be trade offs with less offensive, which could easily make them less effective.
syz
[1, 5, 6, 14]
- Jul 13, 2007
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- 19,715
So is MacKinnon, difference is Makar doesn't turn the puck over every time he tries to pass it like most Oilers defensemen.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Disagree. Team success matters a lot more for legacy than points.
Disagree, talent is more important than luck for ranking greatness. Points measure talent, Cups do not.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
ITM
As Long As It Takes
- Jan 26, 2012
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McDavid certainly looks it and is a fantastically skilled player. But having watched the era in question, I can't help but say, McDavid is allowed to in a way Forsberg wasn't. Its an eye-test observation about the game then and now, that sees Forsberg's era as a much, much more physical era.
Panda Bear
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2010
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I'm taking prime Forsberg and Sakic supporting cast over prime McDavid and Draisaitl supporting cast any day.
Hell, I might even take the Oilers as they are now so long as they get to have Colorado-era Patrick Roy.
If I remember right, Forsberg didn't even come into the NHL with much of a physical approach. He learned how to do it out of necessity for having success.
McDavid would be a more physical player if he were from that era; likewise, Forsberg would be more skill oriented were he playing today.
Beau Knows
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As Long As It Takes
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I think the distinction might be the type of physicality he brought. I think like Salming, Forsberg was always known to be a physical force, the difference in league's notwithstanding. But also like Salming, I think you're correct in the sense that the learning curve was very short.
A season or two at most and Forsberg busted out the reverse check and set the league's defence corps on notice.
And I think you're right, McDavid would have been a little more physical and likely had some protection brought in.
I have read a blurb or two that players and coaches in Sweden and in North American made mention of Forsberg's unusual strength though.
I think McDavid might have been a little closer to Fedorov in that era. Immense talent to be sure.
GoldenKnight
Registered User
Yes, it would.
Is Forsberg a top 25 player of all time? No, and he's not close.
Is he a to 125 player of all time? Yes, most would agree that he is.
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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He is already a tier above, Dionne did not had the playoff run McDavid had (not winning his one thing but if you have multiple iconic playoff run it does not affect legacy as much, see Ray Bourque pre Cup win).
And Top 10 finish
Dionne.: 1-2-2-2-3-4-5-7
McDavid: 1-1-1-1-1-2-2
Would not be a surprise if he has more Art Ross by the end of this year than Dionne had top 3 finish his whole career.
There is no cupless equivalent of McDavid in the history of the nhl I do not think it would be a whole new category just for him, kind of a post 1992 Jaromir Jagr (5 art ross, lead the league in ppg during the playoff but does not win anything) than Dionne. Or a Ovechkin with a much longer peak pre-cup
Last edited:
- Jul 30, 2016
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Why go as high as 125? Why not stop at around 50, 75 or 100? That's like saying Crosby is a top 50 player of all time. It implies that's the range of his ceiling.
He's closer to players ranked around 25 than he is to players ranked around 125.
gretzkyoilers
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2012
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And as we've seen in the playoffs, once the game gets really physical, McDavid's effectiveness greatly reduces. A player like Jagr had to adapt as well, bulking up to he could play through the DPE. A few interviews with Jagr where he states how you do not have to be strong to play these days...
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
McDavid is clearly the better offensive player but I think I'd rather build around prime Forsberg.
I wonder what Forsberg's numbers would look like if he played in the same era as McDavid.
Im sure that McDavid would still out produce him but be nice to see what a healthy Forsberg could do today
I wonder what Forsberg's numbers would look like if he played in the same era as McDavid.
Im sure that McDavid would still out produce him but be nice to see what a healthy Forsberg could do today
Marcel Dionne? You mean the guy who led the league in points 1 time in 18 seasons, never once led in PPG, and won zero mvps?
Why are people so bad at making player comparisons
Parity, FYI.
I have no idea where Forsberg would have ended up without all the injuries but there was a time when nhl.com was reporting on what his farts smelled like and how many times a day he scratched his ass. It was wild. He was an a amazing player, too bad we never got to see what he could have done with a full career but them's the breaks.
ITM
As Long As It Takes
- Jan 26, 2012
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You are correct that it would be a whole new category, but I think all it would prove is that being the best player does not equal winning in the modern age of the NHL. Undoubtedly, many great players who come after him will struggle to win (at least if they stay with their draft team).
People say, "all the goats have championships, and therefore you need them to be the goat"
I'll counter with this fact: All the goats in team sports have goated individual stats.
Jordan - All time leader PPG
Gretzky - All time leader PPG
Babe Ruth - All time leader WAR
Brady (Football sucks for the goat debate but whatever he leads in counting stats)
There is no player with superior stats to any of the goats, otherwise many would be making arguments about them being the goat.
If a player comes along in the NHL and is a 2ppg talent, I would have no problem ranking them ahead of Gretzky as the goat - cup or no cup. The fact is that sort of player just doesn't exist yet and has never existed in any of the big 4 sports. McDavid is the closest thing to that so far. But again he is only 26.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Marcel Dionne? You mean the guy who led the league in points 1 time in 18 seasons, never once led in PPG, and won zero mvps?
Why are people so bad at making player comparisons
When Dionne retired he was 2nd in career goals, assists and points...you have no clue.
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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Poet does not tend to sing-song over time just for talent without achievement.
Does Brady stat look really better than Marino-Manning and others ?
Brady goat status is a lot from winning.
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