McDavid elbows M. Johansson

[wetcoast]

So that's legal now, according to refs:



Should be a suspension, but it's McDavid so likely nothing is gonna happen imo. Don't get me wrong, I love watching McDavid, he is an awesome player. But that was just a dirty play and it was on purpose too.

Flame away.

Greg Louganis would be proud that's a 10 out of 10.

 

[Czechboy]

well ya, it isnt some crazy obvious attack like that.

but i cant see how its not intentional or dangerous.

elbows square on the chin dont take much, but ya, maybe even less if he has issues. Some of the Crosby concussion hits were very mininal, imo. so maybe thats part of it.

Regardless of anything else, he put his elbow onto his chin on purpose. It would probably be a game or two if it werent a star doing it.

Definitely intentional. But I think shit like that happens every night and goes uncalled. And I know this because I watch every Oiler game and it happens to him a lot.lol.

For fun.. imaging if the intentional 4cm chicken wing happens to Connor and he went down like that? The thread would be amazing to read about Mc Baby embellishing lol.

But, I read a post above that said he did intentional hit him (true) and he did get concussed (also true). I'm actually leaning towards he should've got a suspension now because I can't argue those 2 things.

Using my google lawyer knowledge this was more manslaughter then murder as I don't think the intent was concussion but that is what resulted. If I'm a Wild fan, I'm doubly pissed because they've lost a lot of good players to dirty plays lately.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Definitely intentional. But I think shit like that happens every night and goes uncalled. And I know this because I watch every Oiler game and it happens to him a lot.lol.

For fun.. imaging if the intentional 4cm chicken wing happens to Connor and he went down like that? The thread would be amazing to read about Mc Baby embellishing lol.

But, I read a post above that said he did intentional hit him (true) and he did get concussed (also true). I'm actually leaning towards he should've got a suspension now because I can't argue those 2 things.

Using my google lawyer knowledge this was more manslaughter then murder as I don't think the intent was concussion but that is what resulted. If I'm a Wild fan, I'm doubly pissed because they've lost a lot of good players to dirty plays lately.

certainly refreshing to see a rational take like this, they've been few and far between from some of the (oilers) fans in this thread.

 

[MNRube]

3rd

Are you talking about yourself ? Or maybe the arm flapping idiot diving like he got sniped from the second row, or Hartman the headhunting goof who still hasn't gotten what he deserves. Bottom line is if the league isn't going to protect its 2 biggest stars against goofy players, Im all for these superstars protecting themselves. McDavid should have smashed that face in. Barely even touched the guy. It was more of a reactive micromovement that happens at fast speeds. Fxxx the Wild.

Super reasonable human being ^^^. All class

 

[Czechboy]

certainly refreshing to see a rational take like this, they've been few and far between from some of the (oilers) fans in this thread.

It's hard because the play is absolutely bizarre and happened at 100mph. When you see the reaction you think bullshit! But I gave 2 examples earlier of guys with concussion histories going down like that.

Here is the Kase one



If Connor landed a '4cm chicken wing' this was more a 10cm chicken wing but Kase has concussion history and went down hard. He's not in the NHL anymore and had to leave because of this. And, for sure, the Preds player wasn't trying to kill him. It was a small elbow to a concussed history players head and his reaction was scary. I don't think he 'faked it'.

BUT, I'm positive there is a thread when this happened of me saying 'never hit the head' because Kase was my boy!

 

[Dingo]

Definitely intentional. But I think shit like that happens every night and goes uncalled. And I know this because I watch every Oiler game and it happens to him a lot.lol.

For fun.. imaging if the intentional 4cm chicken wing happens to Connor and he went down like that? The thread would be amazing to read about Mc Baby embellishing lol.

But, I read a post above that said he did intentional hit him (true) and he did get concussed (also true). I'm actually leaning towards he should've got a suspension now because I can't argue those 2 things.

Using my google lawyer knowledge this was more manslaughter then murder as I don't think the intent was concussion but that is what resulted. If I'm a Wild fan, I'm doubly pissed because they've lost a lot of good players to dirty plays lately.

oh ya, there would be bad takes if it were McDavid, for sure.

But, on both sides - a lot of the Oilers posters who are mocking Johansson would have a a total change of heart on this type of contact, im sure.

- I dont wacth the Wild, dont even know the roster
- not familiar with Johansson, too low end to make my radar, lol
- I like McDavid, and am not one way or the other with the Oilers
- This, from a neutral viewpoint, was an intentional, and sneaky, shot to the head that resulted in injury. Imo you cant do that.

 

[Czechboy]

oh ya, there would be bad takes if it were McDavid, for sure.

But, on both sides - a lot of the Oilers posters who are mocking Johansson would have a a total change of heart on this type of contact, im sure.

- I dont wacth the Wild, dont even know the roster
- not familiar with Johansson, too low end to make my radar, lol
- I like McDavid, and am not one way or the other with the Oilers
- This, from a neutral viewpoint, was an intentional, and sneaky, shot to the head that resulted in injury. Imo you cant do that.

Can't argue any of that. I'm a huge McD fan and OIler fan. Learning about the wild now because Jiricek is on them for a hot minute.lol

 

[Dingo]

Can't argue any of that. I'm a huge McD fan and OIler fan. Learning about the wild now because Jiricek is on them for a hot minute.lol

side note - does it suck that the Czechs arent in the Four Nations? and also, did you like or dislike when they made Team Remainder of Europe in .... 2016?

 

[Czechboy]

side note - does it suck that the Czechs arent in the Four Nations? and also, did you like or dislike when they made Team Remainder of Europe in .... 2016?

It does suck. I can justify it because we don't 'technically' have 6 NHL D and that is why. We are overloaded at G and definitely have enough forwards and I think a tournament like this could benefit from seeing Pasta and Necas flying around. I still maintain they could've used AHL guys on NHL contracts to fill the D OR use the 2 Czech D that aren't IIHF eligible but NHL eligible. Xhekaj and Ludvig are both half Czech.

Gudas Hronek
Rutta Jiricek
Xhekaj Ludvig

Or toss in AHL guys like Kral, Svozil and Spacek. We are the defending world champs (lower tier for sure) and could definitely hang with anyone. It wouldn't have been 10-0 blowouts. It also would've helped us a LOT for 2026 Olympics to give some younger guys experience.

I hated the mixed combo teams with a passion I cannot explain.lol That's not international hockey. I would take no joy in watching Pasta, Dostal and Necas raising a World Cup trophy with other Slovaks/Germans/Swiss/Latvian stars. I don't mind being an underdog internationally at all. Eg. the fake Czechoslovakia team would be a contender as we'd pick up Cermak, Fehervary, Nemec and Slaf. Or the Czech German team - imagine adding Stutz, Drai, Peterka and Seider to our roster? We are basically 4 players away from relevancy again and I think they are coming in the pipe. You combine us with Switzerland and we are flying too! Our top 6 would be lethal and we'd have a Josi back there.lol But I would hate all of it. Just like I wouldn't want to see a combined team of Americans and Canadians like last time. I want to see Canadians and Americans at war with each other on the ice. It's the best rivalry in hockey right now. Not sitting beside each other.

 

[Dingo]

It does suck. I can justify it because we don't 'technically' have 6 NHL D and that is why. We are overloaded at G and definitely have enough forwards and I think a tournament like this could benefit from seeing Pasta and Necas flying around. I still maintain they could've used AHL guys on NHL contracts to fill the D OR use the 2 Czech D that aren't IIHF eligible but NHL eligible. Xhekaj and Ludvig are both half Czech.

Gudas Hronek
Rutta Jiricek
Xhekaj Ludvig

Or toss in AHL guys like Kral, Svozil and Spacek. We are the defending world champs (lower tier for sure) and could definitely hang with anyone. It wouldn't have been 10-0 blowouts. It also would've helped us a LOT for 2026 Olympics to give some younger guys experience.

I hated the mixed combo teams with a passion I cannot explain.lol That's not international hockey. I would take no joy in watching Pasta, Dostal and Necas raising a World Cup trophy with other Slovaks/Germans/Swiss/Latvian stars. I don't mind being an underdog internationally at all. Eg. the fake Czechoslovakia team would be a contender as we'd pick up Cermak, Fehervary, Nemec and Slaf. Or the Czech German team - imagine adding Stutz, Drai, Peterka and Seider to our roster? We are basically 4 players away from relevancy again and I think they are coming in the pipe. You combine us with Switzerland and we are flying too! Our top 6 would be lethal and we'd have a Josi back there.lol But I would hate all of it. Just like I wouldn't want to see a combined team of Americans and Canadians like last time. I want to see Canadians and Americans at war with each other on the ice. It's the best rivalry in hockey right now. Not sitting beside each other.

ya, i had a feeling you (and the rest of the people over there) felt this way.

As a fan of European players, since the 80s, I want to see them do better, and the number of players/rinks per little country just makes it so hard to compete as equals.

Doesnt seem to be an answer, really. Some geopolitical atrocity might unify things..., but that proooobably isnt worth it just for a great hockey team

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

An elbow to the head is always a dirty play. Dirty, though, does not always = suspendable.

So I was on the fence for a while, because that really did look like a minor tap, at least relative to what I'd normally consider a suspendable elbow.

But Johanssen is on the IR. These guys all know that you can't hit someone in the head, and with the pads they're using, even a "tap" can obviously cause serious head injuries*. This play historically wouldn't be considered all that bad, but I think the league needs to change that, and a suspension here would have been a good place to start. The league's premiere player suspended = DO NOT HIT PLAYERS IN THE HEAD.

Hopefully Johanssen is alright. This also, I think, might call into question some issues around medical clearance.

*I've seen some people saying he flopped and injured himself hitting the ice. Haven't seen any angles remotely corroborating this, so we'll have to assume the elbow caused the injury.

 

[Sol]

McDavid as good as he is really needs to stop with his dirty antics. At some point someone will push his skull through the boards and no one will feed bad for him.

 

[11Messier]

For those that feel this is suspendible, can someone please show an example of when the 2 minute penalty called "Elbowing" applies? I agree that this should have been called a penalty just like the slew foots were missed. It's unfortunate that a concussion prone player got hurt but that doesn't change anything. If someone's stick hit his jaw with the same force and the same injury result, does that player deserve to get suspended. No, he gets a 2 min high sticking penalty. Again, as for the elbow, its as minor of an elbow I've seen...Still a penalty... But if that is suspension worthy, I would like to see what a 2min Elbowing penalty looks like that doesn't deserve a suspension.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

McDavid as good as he is really needs to stop with his dirty antics. At some point someone will push his skull through the boards and no one will feed bad for him.

Just to be clear, this already happens with regularity. People seem to delight in it. Perhaps multiple things need to stop.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

For those that feel this is suspendible, can someone please show an example of when the 2 minute penalty called "Elbowing" applies? I agree that this should have been called a penalty just like the slew foots were missed. It's unfortunate that a concussion prone player got hurt but that doesn't change anything. If someone's stick hit his jaw with the same force and the same injury result, does that player deserve to get suspended. No, he gets a 2 min high sticking penalty. Again, as for the elbow, its as minor of an elbow I've seen...Still a penalty... But if that is suspension worthy, I would like to see what a 2min Elbowing penalty looks like that doesn't deserve a suspension.

I kind of covered this two posts earlier. If a 2 minute minor elbowing penalty can put someon on IR, maybe it shouldn't just be a 2 minute minor. Suspension might not be the answer, but the league needs to consider options.

In parallel, they also need to ensure players are medically fit to play (to your other point). How many Reggie Rays are on active rosters right now?

But you are correct - this play happens quite often, so the vilification in this thread is...well...predictable. If the standard needs to be changed, that's fine, but the league needs to actually identify what that standard is, and the fans can't pick and choose who it applies to.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Watch it in real time. Literally no one on ice knew what the f*** happened. Not the Wild. Not the announcers. Not the Refs. Not even McDavid.

Uh no.

McDavid knew precisely what he was doing. He's one of the most coordinated humans ever to walk the face of the planet. He quite obviously pushed his elbow out into Johansson's face.

Anyway, should be a fine IMO.

Think of every elbow you've seen in your life. Bure on Churla. Messier on Everyone. Ultimate Fighting Championship. Pride Fighting Championship. K1 Kickboxing. Muay Thai GP.

Have you even seen an elbow thrown with 4cms of arm movement? Cmon! A NUDGE at best.

If those sports took place on skates, you would totally have a point.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

For those that feel this is suspendible, can someone please show an example of when the 2 minute penalty called "Elbowing" applies? I agree that this should have been called a penalty just like the slew foots were missed. It's unfortunate that a concussion prone player got hurt but that doesn't change anything. If someone's stick hit his jaw with the same force and the same injury result, does that player deserve to get suspended. No, he gets a 2 min high sticking penalty. Again, as for the elbow, its as minor of an elbow I've seen...Still a penalty... But if that is suspension worthy, I would like to see what a 2min Elbowing penalty looks like that doesn't deserve a suspension.

Or 4 minutes, depending on luck.

 

[John Strachan]

And here it is. This thread just proves my point in the basis towards the Oilers here at hf.

Kempe slewfoots mvdaivd which is clearly the much dirtier play and it goes unnoticed. The thread has 4 pages in 4 days

Mcdavid has questionable hit and the hf boards go off. 11 pages in less then a day lolol

Keep up the energy HF keep it up...

Maybe it's because it took an Edmonton beat writer complaining that it was the dirtiest play ever before anyone even complained about the Kempe play. And the whole Edmonton Oiler fan base parroting the view.

 

[Zerotonine]

Maybe it's because it took an Edmonton beat writer complaining that it was the dirtiest play ever before anyone even complained about the Kempe play. And the whole Edmonton Oiler fan base parroting the view.

Funny every one sure found this hit that was less obvious pretty easily tho huh

 

[John Strachan]

Funny every one sure found this hit that was less obvious pretty easily tho huh

Or that the league wants to protect one of the big stars in the league and doesn't want to rile up fanbase. I have to wonder, if that exact same play to any other player in the league, does Kempe get fined?

I am not saying that slew footing isn't dangerous or that it shouldn't have been called, but I am somewhat intrigued by how a slew foot that didn't even cost McDavid a shift is considered to be somehow a much worse play than a hit to the head that drops a player to the ice with blood coming from this head and puts him on the IR.

But once again, if McDavid was the recipient of that hit instead of the perpetrator, Oilers fans would be all over the league for not even calling for a lengthy suspension.

 

[11Messier]

I kind of covered this two posts earlier. If a 2 minute minor elbowing penalty can put someon on IR, maybe it shouldn't just be a 2 minute minor. Suspension might not be the answer, but the league needs to consider options.

In parallel, they also need to ensure players are medically fit to play (to your other point). How many Reggie Rays are on active rosters right now?
View attachment 962730

But you are correct - this play happens quite often, so the vilification in this thread is...well...predictable. If the standard needs to be changed, that's fine, but the league needs to actually identify what that standard is, and the fans can't pick and choose who it applies to.

I get where you are coming from but there are no clear answers. Basing penalties or suspension off of injury would be absurd. Sometimes they are just freak things and some people are made of glass while others are steel. How would you even determine injury on the spot? At that time, after watching the replay, it looked like he got shot and embellished. Many players dive as it is, you don't think they won't fake being injured to get a major call. Hockey is dangerous. You can a concussion from a high stick, from a clean hit, even a toe pick by yourself. Again, it's unfortunate he got hurt. It definitely was a 2 minute penalty that was missed. No different than the refs missing countless penalties in every other game.

When it comes to the 2 minute elbowing penalty itself. Yeah... they should take a look at that and actually remove it from the rule book. As I asked, show me an Elbow to the head that only deserves 2 minutes. To me, it doesn't get much milder than this one. If this isn't acceptable, then it should be removed and replaced with the hit to the head major that they already have.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Or that the league wants to protect one of the big stars in the league and doesn't want to rile up fanbase. I have to wonder, if that exact same play to any other player in the league, does Kempe get fined?

I am not saying that slew footing isn't dangerous or that it shouldn't have been called, but I am somewhat intrigued by how a slew foot that didn't even cost McDavid a shift is considered to be somehow a much worse play than a hit to the head that drops a player to the ice with blood coming from this head and puts him on the IR.

But once again, if McDavid was the recipient of that hit instead of the perpetrator, Oilers fans would be all over the league for not even calling for a lengthy suspension.

Slewfooting has traditionally been more reviled amongst fans and the league than elbowing. Whether it's right or wrong can be debated, but it's disingenuous to ignore that that is the case.

Hartman has been both fined and suspended for similar slew foot incidents, so I'm not sure where this "if it where any other player..." musing is coming from.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

I get where you are coming from but there are no clear answers. Basing penalties or suspension off of injury would be absurd. Sometimes they are just freak things and some people are made of glass while others are steel. How would you even determine injury on the spot? At that time, after watching the replay, it looked like he got shot and embellished. Many players dive as it is, you don't think they won't fake being injured to get a major call. Hockey is dangerous. You can a concussion from a high stick, from a clean hit, even a toe pick by yourself. Again, it's unfortunate he got hurt. It definitely was a 2 minute penalty that was missed. No different than the refs missing countless penalties in every other game.

When it comes to the 2 minute elbowing penalty itself. Yeah... they should take a look at that and actually remove it from the rule book. As I asked, show me an Elbow to the head that only deserves 2 minutes. To me, it doesn't get much milder than this one. If this isn't acceptable, then it should be removed and replaced with the hit to the head major that they already have.

Yeah - no easy answers, for sure. And we definitely aren't going to get them in this forum, as objectivity has gone completely out the window. The hit to the head major as a standard might be something, though.

 

[John Strachan]

Slewfooting has traditionally been more reviled amongst fans and the league than elbowing. Whether it's right or wrong can be debated, but it's disingenuous to ignore that that is the case.

Hartman has been both fined and suspended for similar slew foot incidents, so I'm not sure where this "if it where any other player..." musing is coming from.

You gave one example of a player having to pay for slew footing and with Draisaitl and DeBrincat, two of the higher profile players, and in Draisaitl's case another Oiler. Slew footing happens in the league more than I like and it rarely gets called.

Not trying to complain about Kempe's fine, it is unusual for slew footing to lead to much discipline in the NHL.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

You gave one example of a player having to pay for slew footing and with Draisaitl and DeBrincat, two of the higher profile players, and in Draisaitl's case another Oiler. Slew footing happens in the league more than I like and it rarely gets called.

Not trying to complain about Kempe's fine, it is unusual for slew footing to lead to much discipline in the NHL.

Debrincat and Ross Colton - Not Draisaitl. Hoglander, Coleman, L'Heureux, Lebanc, Marchand, and the aforementioned Hartman (x2) have been nailed for it in the past few years. You're right that it's not called often enough, but suggesting that Kempe was fined only because it's McDavid is just wrong.