GDT: McCarron vs Guelph on Sportsnet

[Whitesnake]

I mean...since he's been talked a lot....I thought that this game needed to have his own thread....and then maybe throw it in in the CHL prospects right after.

Just came in and watching through PVR so I'll catch the game live in the 2nd I guess....First observations....Big Mac do seem slow, whether it's skating or just decision making. And he falls down a lot despite hitting smaller players, but we'll entirely put that on the growing part of it.....I think that what it comes down to as far as determining 1st line versus 4th line is hockey IQ. That's the most important think to determine. Even if he stops falling....skates better or whatever. We'll see if he will improve how he goes along this year and the year after. Tonight's game, while we are seeing it, will still not determine whether he will succeed or not....but it's great to watch him live for the ones who haven't.

One other thing to watch.....London seems incredibly slow even with the great guys on the ice. Really can't believe that's the pace that Hunter wants to play in. London looks really average and if they don't improve, will be destroyed in the Mem Cup.

Oh and Rychel scoring and being more visible...never thought that would be possible....

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[Habmaster]

just started watching out here in Victoria - first period recap?

 

[Team_Spirit]

Tierney line floats around doing nothing trying stupid selfish play for 2 minutes.... Then goes to change when the play is going in the Knights zone...McCarron -1 as he step on the ice 2 seconds before they score.

Next play he drives the net and get into a basic scrum with the D. He gets 2 minutes for being tall.

 

[Whitesnake]

Oops....McCarron won't play for the rest of the period...he did a Subban special....

 

[Blind Gardien]

He looked so good in camp, and yet so... worse in the OHL. I don't know how that happens, really. Ultimately we just have to essentially write off this season and see what happens next season. Camp showed us that we can't give up hope yet, even if common sense didn't already tell us that.

 

[Whitesnake]

just started watching out here in Victoria - first period recap?

Nothing worth noticing. Not too much involved.

 

[Team_Spirit]

McCarron win board battle against 2 players, pass to Reupert who lose the puck.

 

[Whitesnake]

He looked so good in camp, and yet so... worse in the OHL. I don't know how that happens, really. Ultimately we just have to essentially write off this season and see what happens next season. Camp showed us that we can't give up hope yet, even if common sense didn't already tell us that.

Seemed to be going with the OHL beat....seems really slow. Were we fooled with that NHL camp? Was he solely playing on emotion and adrenaline? Wonder if that could be open more frequently.

London looks bad though....so disorganized and disinterested....I'm stunned to see that knowing who coaches....

 

[Whitesnake]

McCarron win board battle against 2 players, pass to Reupert who lose the puck. End of 2nd period.

End of 2nd period? Still 10 minutes to go...

 

[68*]

He looked so good in camp, and yet so... worse in the OHL. I don't know how that happens, really. Ultimately we just have to essentially write off this season and see what happens next season. Camp showed us that we can't give up hope yet, even if common sense didn't already tell us that.

He was never the same after Eugenie rejected him on Twitter.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I don't think we can be that easily fooled. He's not slow. Even when he looks slow now... you can't erase the camp where he looked different. Or the USNTDP showings. I have no idea what's up with him in the OHL. But I don't distrust the viewings in other venues. Not completely. I am suitably concerned by his OHL persona. But at least we saw the other things. So there's no reason to think he can't get that back.

Nice thing, Guelph and London probably previews the OHL Mem Cup reps, and McCarron is going to get to play a lot of games overall this year.

I could almost wish the Habs hadn't already signed him. Might have helped push him a little to dangle the threat of non-signing and no signing bonus, etc. Of course, it would be an empty threat, the Habs still have to have a player like his upside represents. But maybe he got a little complacent with that and his good camp showing? Dunno. Anyway, it's almost pointless to nitpick his play at this point, it's really coming down to a writeoff and re-visit next season IMHO.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Tuned in about 5 mins ago... saw some nice moves by Domi. Scored a goal that shouldn't have gone in but he's looked good.

Haven't noticed MM yet.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't think we can be that easily fooled. He's not slow. Even when he looks slow now... you can't erase the camp where he looked different. Or the USNTDP showings. I have no idea what's up with him in the OHL. But I don't distrust the viewings in other venues. Not completely. I am suitably concerned by his OHL persona. But at least we saw the other things. So there's no reason to think he can't get that back.

Nice thing, Guelph and London probably previews the OHL Mem Cup reps, and McCarron is going to get to play a lot of games overall this year.

I could almost wish the Habs hadn't already signed him. Might have helped push him a little to dangle the threat of non-signing and no signing bonus, etc. Of course, it would be an empty threat, the Habs still have to have a player like his upside represents. But maybe he got a little complacent with that and his good camp showing? Dunno. Anyway, it's almost pointless to nitpick his play at this point, it's really coming down to a writeoff and re-visit next season IMHO.

I don't follow the minors at all but I remember a debate that took place where some folks said he should go play in the OHL and others argued that another league (can't remember which one) would have been better for him. Was that a College league? Is the consensus that he should've gone there instead?

 

[68*]

Is the coach sitting him? Didn't see him yet.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I don't follow the minors at all but I remember a debate that took place where some folks said he should go play in the OHL and others argued that another league (can't remember which one) would have been better for him. Was that a College league? Is the consensus that he should've gone there instead?

Wellll... our consensus at the time was that the OHL was WAAAAAAAAAY better for him than the NCAA. He's a big tough guy, we thought. London is hosting the Mem Cup. Get him playing for Dale Hunter, get him 80+ games in a league that allows fighting. It was the way to go. Some few defended the option of playing for Andy Murray at U West. Mich, since that's a really smart coach with NHL experience and all, but I think the vast majority were in favour of the OHL switch.

I'm still in favour of the OHL route too. I'm just surprised it has gone quite the way it has.

 

[SquiddFX]

I don't follow the minors at all but I remember a debate that took place where some folks said he should go play in the OHL and others argued that another league (can't remember which one) would have been better for him. Was that a College league? Is the consensus that he should've gone there instead?

He had two options heading into this season. The OHL where London held his rights or NCAA to play college hockey for Western Michigan and play for former NHL coach Andy Murray.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't think we can be that easily fooled. He's not slow. Even when he looks slow now... you can't erase the camp where he looked different. Or the USNTDP showings. I have no idea what's up with him in the OHL. But I don't distrust the viewings in other venues. Not completely. I am suitably concerned by his OHL persona. But at least we saw the other things. So there's no reason to think he can't get that back.

Nice thing, Guelph and London probably previews the OHL Mem Cup reps, and McCarron is going to get to play a lot of games overall this year.

I could almost wish the Habs hadn't already signed him. Might have helped push him a little to dangle the threat of non-signing and no signing bonus, etc. Of course, it would be an empty threat, the Habs still have to have a player like his upside represents. But maybe he got a little complacent with that and his good camp showing? Dunno. Anyway, it's almost pointless to nitpick his play at this point, it's really coming down to a writeoff and re-visit next season IMHO.

They surely wouldn't do a Missiaen out of McCarron. I mean, they drafted Missiaen knowing FULL WELL that it was a big time project. And then....they let him go after 2 years. Made no sense when the idea was that he was project, and a project doesn't take 2 years to develop. Same for McCarron.

I'm not saying it's the case for him. Still have some faith in the kid. You just have to...we're not even at the end of year 1. But we saw numerous times prospects who had incredible year 1 at camp with tons of NHL teams to then vanish in the air after. I do agree though, we saw what we saw. So it has to be there. But I'm shocked to see how he is struggling, didn't expect that.

But like I said before, the Habs didn't picked him for past results. The kid NEVER had any numbers to show for. Never dominated any teams or leagues he played in. His USDP team, he was ahead of guys like Hayden and Fasching, but those are guys who ended up 3rd and 4th round. And in his USHL time, even a guy like Hayden was better statswise and will be never seen as an offensive force in any league. So it has to be on development and potential. Which is a reason why we can't panic this year. Maybe not even next year.

One thing here though....in hindsight....would have probably be better to see him in the NCAA. Need to mature physicaly. Time to address the important aspects of a hockey game. 4 years to address him if needed. Away from the pressure with time to develop. But we all thought how important the Mem Cup would be for him and I'm sure, nobody thought he would have stuggled that much. We CLEARLY could not have expected him to be a top scorer in the league. Nobody did. But didn't expect to see him as one of the worst statswise of his draft year.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Nothing exceptional but he drives the net and win his board battle. His production will be directly linked with is ice time and linesmates imo.

Playing on the PP to screen PK shot for exemple cold be a good idea.

In other news the Guelph arena looks pretty nice.

 

[Blind Gardien]

They surely wouldn't do a Missiaen out of McCarron. I mean, they drafted Missiaen knowing FULL WELL that it was a big time project. And then....they let him go after 2 years. Made no sense when the idea was that he was project, and a project doesn't take 2 years to develop. Same for McCarron.

I totally don't mean to realistically consider the threat. You would obviously sign him. Maybe just not immediately after the draft, that's all. Leave him a little hungry in Year 1.

But maybe they _wanted_ him to go the OHL route, and that was part of the price to pay for getting him to switch lanes too, who knows.

 

[Mathletic]

Nothing exceptional but he drives the net and win his board battle. His production will be directly linked with is ice time and linesmates imo.

I disagree here. He won some in the 2nd but for the most part, quite underwhelming board play.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He had two options heading into this season. The OHL where London held his rights or NCAA to play college hockey for Western Michigan and play for former NHL coach Andy Murray.

Thanks.

Wellll... our consensus at the time was that the OHL was WAAAAAAAAAY better for him than the NCAA. He's a big tough guy, we thought. London is hosting the Mem Cup. Get him playing for Dale Hunter, get him 80+ games in a league that allows fighting. It was the way to go. Some few defended the option of playing for Andy Murray at U West. Mich, since that's a really smart coach with NHL experience and all, but I think the vast majority were in favour of the OHL switch.

I'm still in favour of the OHL route too. I'm just surprised it has gone quite the way it has.

I read an article way back when that argued heavily for him going to the NCAA and that it would teach him the skills of the game. The author argued that the OHL would basically hone his fighting skills but little else.

How's that looking right now? Based on what I've read here about a week ago, folks were uh... split on this to say the least.

 

[Et le But]

He looked so good in camp, and yet so... worse in the OHL. I don't know how that happens, really. Ultimately we just have to essentially write off this season and see what happens next season. Camp showed us that we can't give up hope yet, even if common sense didn't already tell us that.

There's two lessons here -

1. Training camp is meaningless for evaluating players.

2. McCarron is very raw.

He has a lot of tools to work with. I didn't like the pick, I still don't like the pick, I understand it, but gambling on size late in the first round is not to me how you draft in the first round. The Habs have a long and proud history of busts because they bypassed on talent for size.

But I won't write of McCarron yet. Tinordi had a huge progression in his first and second years in London. And even if McCarron ends up a plug, if he's an NHL calibur plug we can still make good use of him.

But it's too early to go there. Maybe the NCAA would have been better for him so he could have focused on the hockey and physically developing. Ether way, this was never going to be a pick you could draw a conclusion from in his first year. He might be Lucic, he might be Bickell, he might be Jessiman or one of the revolving door of Habs busts with size in the 90s. Give it a year and then maybe start the speculation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There's two lessons here -

1. Training camp is meaningless for evaluating players.

2. McCarron is very raw.

He has a lot of tools to work with. I didn't like the pick, I still don't like the pick, I understand it, but gambling on size late in the first round is not to me how you draft in the first round. The Habs have a long and proud history of busts because they bypassed on talent for size.

We do? I haven't seen this.

 

[68*]

First shift I saw him play and he reminds me of a soft George Parros.

 

[JuicyHam]

First shift I saw him play and he reminds me of a soft George Parros.

lets hope he doesn't stay like that