Confirmed with Link: Mazur signs ELC - will finish season in GR

[The Zetterberg Era]

Does thefree agent market this year with the money needed to spend suggest we're going to get those type of deals? I mean FA isn't good, and Wings literally have to spend money. Like have to, by league rules.

I want gold over silver too but look at the free agents available and what Red Wings actually have to do. I mean idk I guess they can overpay for a guy or two for 1 year but idk how likely that is. Almost all will be looking for multi-year deals.

If we are having trouble hitting the floor, we could also demand a first from Toronto and make Murray our backup.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not like terrible ideas but how the roster is shaped at this exact moment: This is what a projected depth chart would look like to me. There are some players to be signed of coarse cause Red Wings have to hit the cap floor, literally have to spend at least 11.5 million or more to hit the floor. That said this is what a Roster might look like now with no moves at all. The guys with and asterisks (*) are first years/debatable depending on how many signings are made. Really the major hole on the team is RHD defensemen behind Seider, imo.


Dominik Kubalik – Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
David Perron – Andrew Copp – Jonatan Berggren
Robby Fabbri – Michael Rasmussen – * Carter Mazur
Joe Veleno – * Marco Kasper – * Elmer Soderblom

Austin Czarnik
Filip Zadina

Jake Walman – Mortiz Seider
* Simon Edvinsson – ???
Ollie Maatta – Ben Chiarot

* Albert Johansson.

Ville Husso
* Sebastian Cossa / ???


I mention this because people don't want to spend money on free agents, but also don't want to pay the piper it'd take to bring in major talent. Long story short somethings coming, becasuse it has to, Yzerman isn't going to sign over pay a bunch of 2/3 year guys to block out these guys that are bolded/asterisk, imo. DeBrincat is also a RFA, always can offer-sheet him and possibly just lose a 1st-2nd-3rd rdp. ( Wings have Bostons 1st rdp. )

Rasmussen isn’t a center anymore. I highly doubt he goes back to playing as a mediocre 3rd/4th line center when he showed ability as a middle and potentially top 6 winger.

Kasper won’t be 4th line center behind Copp AND Rasmussen. He played center in his one game in Detroit with Copp as his winger. Don’t be surprised if one of Copp or Rasmussen is his winger next year. On the 2nd line.

If Veleno is just a 4th line winger then he’s as good as traded. He has a good opportunity next year to be a 3C considering the current roster situation. If he can’t swim as a 3C in Detroit then he’s probably a bust.

That roster accounts ZERO external moves. I would expect that team to be even worse than this year, and that just isn’t acceptable. It’s bad. Realbad. But would probably still be picking 6th to 9th at the draft because there are teams that are still more realbad.

 

[Snuggs]

Well Kasper sucked his one game with the Wings when they were out of playoff contention and couldn't win a face-off so I don't think you've got a quality argument honestly based off that suggestion you gave about Copp being his winger for one game. Now it's not the end all be all but hardly moves the needle as an endorsement either way.(good or bad) Anyways, I tossed him down there his first year because I think he can handle a chippy physical role, getting his ears wet in the NHL. Maybe he'd be better off just playing in the AHL if this is that case though, idk, certainly up for debate imo, what Kaspers role on the team is next year.

Veleno does suck, He'll be gone by January.(waived)

Roster was supposed to account for zero moves because it's what we have at this very moment in time. It's supposed to highlight needs more, where to move players, and how Wings can use at least 11.5 million in an effective way, because they have to spend at least that much in a crappy FA market to hit the floor. You're supposed to look at that roster of players, construct it how you like it, then figure out how to spend money in areas you like.

If you don't like Rasmussen at center thats like fine, move him wherever you like or any line combo how you want. You should still get a good/better grasp of team needs and where to spend it.

Wings literally got 11.5 million to spend at very least, you actually think it's really wise to let Kasper, a rookie play 2nd line minutes when Red Wings have that much money to spend on someone available.

Good idea someone brought up to hit the floor was Toronto trading us Murray for assets, eating up 6 million for just this season and then use the big money the following season to go after much better players that'll be available as UFA's.

 

[Gniwder]

Kasper won’t be 4th line center behind Copp AND Rasmussen. He played center in his one game in Detroit with Copp as his winger. Don’t be surprised if one of Copp or Rasmussen is his winger next year. On the 2nd line.

Wishful thinking, Kasper isn't a 2nd line center next season. Zero chance. More than likely he's in GR.

Veleno does suck, He'll be gone by January.(waived)

Veleno isn't getting waived, he's better than Zadina. He has more or less locked himself into a 4th liner role though. I thought he had more potential.


This team isn't going to look drastically different next season, and isn't going to do much better than they did this past season. Unless there's a big signing next offseason, this team isn't going anywhere for a while.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Well Kasper sucked his one game with the Wings when they were out of playoff contention and couldn't win a face-off so I don't think you've got a quality argument honestly based off that suggestion you gave about Copp being his winger for one game. Now it's not the end all be all but hardly moves the needle as an endorsement either way.(good or bad) Anyways, I tossed him down there his first year because I think he can handle a chippy physical role, getting his ears wet in the NHL. Maybe he'd be better off just playing in the AHL if this is that case though, idk, certainly up for debate imo, what Kaspers role on the team is next year.

Veleno does suck, He'll be gone by January.(waived)

Roster was supposed to account for zero moves because it's what we have at this very moment in time. It's supposed to highlight needs more, where to move players, and how Wings can use at least 11.5 million in an effective way, because they have to spend at least that much in a crappy FA market to hit the floor. You're supposed to look at that roster of players, construct it how you like it, then figure out how to spend money in areas you like.

If you don't like Rasmussen at center thats like fine, move him wherever you like or any line combo how you want. You should still get a good/better grasp of team needs and where to spend it.

Wings literally got 11.5 million to spend at very least, you actually think it's really wise to let Kasper, a rookie play 2nd line minutes when Red Wings have that much money to spend on someone available.

Good idea someone brought up to hit the floor was Toronto trading us Murray for assets, eating up 6 million for just this season and then use the big money the following season to go after much better players that'll be available as UFA's.

Copp being his winger means he can ideally take a lot of the draws and they switch positions after draws. Lots of teams have done this over the years, it is an ideal crutch with Copp being a good faceoff guy. You can throw Kasper out without fear that if the situation dictates you have Copp slide in for draws to protect him and be his safety net. Also Kasper is a good down low player, Copp also does most of his best work in the cycle and down low areas, they have games that hopefully do marry.

You need three good lines and you need much better depth balance. I actually think both Copp and Ras wind up on the wing. I think their versatility will see them skip inside at times in bingo ball games, but they can impact the game from the wing and give a heavier feel to our lineup. I expect this adjustment as Kasper grows into his role. Veleno will run out of time soon if he doesn't take the #3C mantle. Then you're looking at a first round pick or Lombardi to try to come and unseat him. It is taking a bit but I think Yzerman's next two draft will provide the answers we need at RD and Center. We are also approaching the trade and tinker phase. This along with cap space though some of it is already spoken for in extensions are why I am okay still with the Yzerplan.

Guys like Mazur are going to be important because he seems a gritty up and down the lineup smart hockey player. If he is the third on a line I think you're in good shape and who knows he could KO it at be the second still on a good line if the right things happen development wise and he clicks with the right guy. Like if Kasper and Mazur develop unreal chemistry that would be a huge moment in the rebuild.

 

[jkutswings]

If we are having trouble hitting the floor, we could also demand a first from Toronto and make Murray our backup.

Or when the new GM comes in as a hatchet man to shake things up, we could include taking Murray in a trade package for Marner.

 

[Henkka]

Really the major hole on the team is RHD defensemen behind Seider, imo.

Think he could going hard after Damon Severson, who played Hronek-like role for NJD.

But they are letting him walk. Kind of ironic, their Top4 did bust pretty bad at playoffs, and Severson, who did drop to 3rd pair had superior stats vs. their top4.

 

[Henkka]

Copp being his winger means he can ideally take a lot of the draws and they switch positions after draws. Lots of teams have done this over the years, it is an ideal crutch with Copp being a good faceoff guy. You can throw Kasper out without fear that if the situation dictates you have Copp slide in for draws to protect him and be his safety net. Also Kasper is a good down low player, Copp also does most of his best work in the cycle and down low areas, they have games that hopefully do marry.

You need three good lines and you need much better depth balance. I actually think both Copp and Ras wind up on the wing. I think their versatility will see them skip inside at times in bingo ball games, but they can impact the game from the wing and give a heavier feel to our lineup. I expect this adjustment as Kasper grows into his role. Veleno will run out of time soon if he doesn't take the #3C mantle. Then you're looking at a first round pick or Lombardi to try to come and unseat him. It is taking a bit but I think Yzerman's next two draft will provide the answers we need at RD and Center. We are also approaching the trade and tinker phase. This along with cap space though some of it is already spoken for in extensions are why I am okay still with the Yzerplan.

Guys like Mazur are going to be important because he seems a gritty up and down the lineup smart hockey player. If he is the third on a line I think you're in good shape and who knows he could KO it at be the second still on a good line if the right things happen development wise and he clicks with the right guy. Like if Kasper and Mazur develop unreal chemistry that would be a huge moment in the rebuild.

Imo, Copp feels like the right veteran to mentor kids like Kasper and Mazur in.

Many times vet Center will mentor the kid Center in. Like Zetterberg did for Larkin. Kid can take some center experiment but can start as a winger. At 2nd season, roles can change.

If Red Wings can develop Kasper to center and Rasmussen also keeps running at center, Copp could became a winger. Utility extra option, always good for a team. He is not blocking anyone, he could be the key player in mentoring environment.

 

[Henkka]

Gimme more 1 or 2 year Kubalik, Perron, Maatta type deals. Gimme less 4 year Chiarot type deals.

Could think Yzerman would be interested trading some players with contracts having 2-3 years left.

Like if there's no UFA market for short Perron/Kubalik/Määttä deals, you can experiment trade route.

Maybe there's some overpaid 8-year deal with some last years left, which is problematic for other team. But last 2-3 years would not be problematic for us in our superior cap situation. Usually these kind of cap problems you can get with cheap trade deals. Giving up low pick + prospect who has no future with us, like some LD from the surplus.

 

[Snuggs]

Copp being his winger means he can ideally take a lot of the draws and they switch positions after draws. Lots of teams have done this over the years, it is an ideal crutch with Copp being a good faceoff guy. You can throw Kasper out without fear that if the situation dictates you have Copp slide in for draws to protect him and be his safety net. Also Kasper is a good down low player, Copp also does most of his best work in the cycle and down low areas, they have games that hopefully do marry.

You need three good lines and you need much better depth balance. I actually think both Copp and Ras wind up on the wing. I think their versatility will see them skip inside at times in bingo ball games, but they can impact the game from the wing and give a heavier feel to our lineup. I expect this adjustment as Kasper grows into his role. Veleno will run out of time soon if he doesn't take the #3C mantle. Then you're looking at a first round pick or Lombardi to try to come and unseat him. It is taking a bit but I think Yzerman's next two draft will provide the answers we need at RD and Center. We are also approaching the trade and tinker phase. This along with cap space though some of it is already spoken for in extensions are why I am okay still with the Yzerplan.

Guys like Mazur are going to be important because he seems a gritty up and down the lineup smart hockey player. If he is the third on a line I think you're in good shape and who knows he could KO it at be the second still on a good line if the right things happen development wise and he clicks with the right guy. Like if Kasper and Mazur develop unreal chemistry that would be a huge moment in the rebuild.

This is a good write up really and I'm not gonna disagree with a lot of the reasoning. I feel a lot like you about the same things/players.

I'm not trying to dog Kasper or say Copp/Kasper won't play together ever, but to crown a kid over 1 game he struggled in like Ogee was preaching to me is a little far-fetched. If the kid does it great but the odds of him coming in and holding down that position are lofty, imo.

What's your answer to get to the cap floor... Money has to be spent this year, and extensions wont count against the cap THIS YEAR. While putting people/players in the positions you are talking about.

 

[Snuggs]

Wishful thinking, Kasper isn't a 2nd line center next season. Zero chance. More than likely he's in GR.


Veleno isn't getting waived, he's better than Zadina. He has more or less locked himself into a 4th liner role though. I thought he had more potential.


This team isn't going to look drastically different next season, and isn't going to do much better than they did this past season. Unless there's a big signing next offseason, this team isn't going anywhere for a while.

Whoa, why's he so much better than Zadina... and both actually suck so... it's not a good thing to be just better than Zadina.

Imo, one or both will be waived by midseason making room for someone else. If they get picked up or not on waivers is another story. Hard to trade players that just aren't good. Maybe a trade can be made but idk, doubt it. I wouldn't give a thing for either.

What the heck do I know anyways, just how I feel.

 

[Snuggs]

Think he could going hard after Damon Severson, who played Hronek-like role for NJD.

But they are letting him walk. Kind of ironic, their Top4 did bust pretty bad at playoffs, and Severson, who did drop to 3rd pair had superior stats vs. their top4.

I wouldn't hate this. Scott Mayfield isn't a bad plug if you want to pair him with Edvinsson imo. Luckily, Wings do actually have some, SOME, options at RHD in free agency. Severson definitely moves the puck better, but I think he'll actually get more money than Chariot.

 

[13to40]

Whoa, why's he so much better than Zadina... and both actually suck so... it's not a good thing to be just better than Zadina.

Imo, one or both will be waived by midseason making room for someone else. If they get picked up or not on waivers is another story. Hard to trade players that just aren't good. Maybe a trade can be made but idk, doubt it. I wouldn't give a thing for either.

What the heck do I know anyways, just how I feel.

I’ll be the optimistic person saying I think this will be a big year for both of them.
Joe showed a lot of promise of being a 20/20 type of player in a defensive role. He has the tools to be an excellent shutdown type of guy.

Zadina is the tricky one because if he’s not scoring at where he was taken in the draft; then every fan will be giving him a hard time. I think his issue is more a mental one. You can see he has a good motor, just seems to be lacking self confidence. Hopefully a good summer of training can help sort this out. Would still like for him to become a 2/3 W PP specialist.

 

[NickH8]

What if we have Rasmussen play the faceoff guy for Kasper role? Allows him to be tested in a top 6 wing role that we want to see him in long term and he's good at draws.

Berggren - Larkin - Raymond
Rasmussen - Kasper - Perron
Kubalik - Copp - Fabbri

That's a nice top 9.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

What if we have Rasmussen play the faceoff guy for Kasper role? Allows him to be tested in a top 6 wing role that we want to see him in long term and he's good at draws.

Berggren - Larkin - Raymond
Rasmussen - Kasper - Perron
Kubalik - Copp - Fabbri

That's a nice top 9.

How polarizing is Berggren? In the past week I've seen him in projected lineups from the 1st line to the 4th line.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What if we have Rasmussen play the faceoff guy for Kasper role? Allows him to be tested in a top 6 wing role that we want to see him in long term and he's good at draws.

Berggren - Larkin - Raymond
Rasmussen - Kasper - Perron
Kubalik - Copp - Fabbri

That's a nice top 9.

Barring any trades/UFA-shenaningans I see it as relatively likely they stick with the Larkin-Perron combo to start, and give Kasper an opportunity on the 2nd line with Copp+Raymond like they did in the one game he got.

 

[Gniwder]

Whoa, why's he so much better than Zadina... and both actually suck so... it's not a good thing to be just better than Zadina.

Imo, one or both will be waived by midseason making room for someone else. If they get picked up or not on waivers is another story. Hard to trade players that just aren't good. Maybe a trade can be made but idk, doubt it. I wouldn't give a thing for either.

What the heck do I know anyways, just how I feel.

Just saying Zadina gets waived first.

Your projection makes no sense anyways because Joey is a center, and even if they promote Kasper, the team still would keep a center as the healthy scratch. Raz is better off as a winger, so the team would have to pick up a center midseason AND promote Kasper, which will never happen. That's assuming the team gets an UFA center during the summer to replace Pius. That's a lot of center acquisitions. Joey is a cheap 4th liner capable of playing center (though shitty at FO), he will get claimed. Zadina might not because of his contract.

The only way it could possibly happen is if Fester shifts Fabbri and/or Raz back to center and promotes Kasper, but do you really think any of them should be playing 4C? Signing someone like LGD could happen, but what's the point of replacing Joey with an aging center who never had any offense?

So I guess the question is, if the Wings acquire so many centers that Joey becomes expendable, who's playing 4C and who's the healthy scratch?

 

[Gniwder]

Imo, Copp feels like the right veteran to mentor kids like Kasper and Mazur in.

Many times vet Center will mentor the kid Center in. Like Zetterberg did for Larkin. Kid can take some center experiment but can start as a winger. At 2nd season, roles can change.

If Red Wings can develop Kasper to center and Rasmussen also keeps running at center, Copp could became a winger. Utility extra option, always good for a team. He is not blocking anyone, he could be the key player in mentoring environment.

Copp mentoring Kasper sounds a lot like Gagner mentoring Joey. I think it winds up stifling his offense. Z was a true 2 way center, capable of moving the puck and protecting it.

 

[NickH8]

How polarizing is Berggren? In the past week I've seen him in projected lineups from the 1st line to the 4th line.

I'm on the pro Berggren train and I don't care how biased I am. He's a guy I advocated for drafting and I've been a huge fan through his development. I really believe in him.

 

[Run the Jewels]

How polarizing is Berggren? In the past week I've seen him in projected lineups from the 1st line to the 4th line.

Seems like a middle 6 guy to me. Perhaps you can get away with playing him on a top line every now and then but I don't see him as a guy who brings something that screams "top line" to me. At least not on a team that is going anywhere.

 

[Snuggs]

Just saying Zadina gets waived first.

Your projection makes no sense anyways because Joey is a center, and even if they promote Kasper, the team still would keep a center as the healthy scratch. Raz is better off as a winger, so the team would have to pick up a center midseason AND promote Kasper, which will never happen. That's assuming the team gets an UFA center during the summer to replace Pius. That's a lot of center acquisitions. Joey is a cheap 4th liner capable of playing center (though shitty at FO), he will get claimed. Zadina might not because of his contract.

The only way it could possibly happen is if Fester shifts Fabbri and/or Raz back to center and promotes Kasper, but do you really think any of them should be playing 4C? Signing someone like LGD could happen, but what's the point of replacing Joey with an aging center who never had any offense?

So I guess the question is, if the Wings acquire so many centers that Joey becomes expendable, who's playing 4C and who's the healthy scratch?

Well remember this is just the roster as is now. Rasumussen/Copp/Kasper are easily better than Veleno at C. Czarnik is signed and on the roster, imo, considered the healthy scratch at C, at the momenet(He could get waived too). No one's signed, and there's 11.5 million to spend to just hit the cap floor. That's my point.

Veleno/Zadina can easily get pushed out with some free agent moves, minor ones like you even said, why, because wings actually do have to spend money and because Veleno/Zadina just aren't that good. Outside of 1st rdp's theres nothing saying they should be given a chance honestly. IF they're 4th rdp's they start in Grand Rapids easily. Like... a guy like Austin Watson who plays 11 minutes a night will be more valueable to this team on a 4th line and PK than what Zadina will be at the same position, same line, with some PP time even. An that's not even close to the 11.5 million needed to spend. Wings can get players WAY better than Austin Watson.

Like go back look at that roster, and at minimum wings have to add 11.5 million to just hit the cap floor per league rules. Players are going to get pushed out/traded. An like what, are we keeping Zadina/Veleno up so Mazur/Kasper can't play? Really? We've got big problem then if they can't beat them out. With in system prospects plus signings I think they'll get pushed out easily. IF Wings are stubborn by midseason, I actually think sooner but I didn't wanna sound crazy, but F it. IDC if these guys are waived and picked up for nothing.

 

[Snuggs]

I’ll be the optimistic person saying I think this will be a big year for both of them.
Joe showed a lot of promise of being a 20/20 type of player in a defensive role. He has the tools to be an excellent shutdown type of guy.

Zadina is the tricky one because if he’s not scoring at where he was taken in the draft; then every fan will be giving him a hard time. I think his issue is more a mental one. You can see he has a good motor, just seems to be lacking self confidence. Hopefully a good summer of training can help sort this out. Would still like for him to become a 2/3 W PP specialist.

Man I hope you're right. It's not like I'm rooting against these fellas I just think they suck.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This is a good write up really and I'm not gonna disagree with a lot of the reasoning. I feel a lot like you about the same things/players.

I'm not trying to dog Kasper or say Copp/Kasper won't play together ever, but to crown a kid over 1 game he struggled in like Ogee was preaching to me is a little far-fetched. If the kid does it great but the odds of him coming in and holding down that position are lofty, imo.

What's your answer to get to the cap floor... Money has to be spent this year, and extensions wont count against the cap THIS YEAR. While putting people/players in the positions you are talking about.

I threw out taking Murray as an expensive backup for a 1st or something we want. I would also be willing to give Tarasenko something big on a 2 year. I don't think it could mess up our rebuild. Tank has ton of chemistry with Perron, provides what this team misses the most in goals. I am not sure he would look at someone like us, but he already has a ring, we have a bunch of former teammates and we would feed him the puck for one last big contract with a contender who heck if we rise with him just might be us.

Pretty big pipe dream but I am to the floor in this scenario.

 

[Gniwder]

Well remember this is just the roster as is now. Rasumussen/Copp/Kasper are easily better than Veleno at C. Czarnik is signed and on the roster, imo, considered the healthy scratch at C, at the momenet(He could get waived too). No one's signed, and there's 11.5 million to spend to just hit the cap floor. That's my point.

Veleno/Zadina can easily get pushed out with some free agent moves, minor ones like you even said, why, because wings actually do have to spend money and because Veleno/Zadina just aren't that good. Outside of 1st rdp's theres nothing saying they should be given a chance honestly. IF they're 4th rdp's they start in Grand Rapids easily. Like... a guy like Austin Watson who plays 11 minutes a night will be more valueable to this team on a 4th line and PK than what Zadina will be at the same position, same line, with some PP time even. An that's not even close to the 11.5 million needed to spend. Wings can get players WAY better than Austin Watson.

Like go back look at that roster, and at minimum wings have to add 11.5 million to just hit the cap floor per league rules. Players are going to get pushed out/traded. An like what, are we keeping Zadina/Veleno up so Mazur/Kasper can't play? Really? We've got big problem then if they can't beat them out. With in system prospects plus signings I think they'll get pushed out easily. IF Wings are stubborn by midseason, I actually think sooner but I didn't wanna sound crazy, but F it. IDC if these guys are waived and picked up for nothing.

Rasumussen/Copp/Fabbri shouldn't be playing 4C, unless Stevie signs so many wingers that they're bumped down from their middle 6 roles. I don't see that happening. Would be great to roll 4 lines like the Kraken, but I don't see Stevie throwing money at free agents this summer aside from RHD.

Czarnik is an AHLer. Kasper will be in GR most of the season until trades or injuries happen. Kasper and Mazur haven't even played a season in GR and you want them on the roster. Your arguments will be a lot more valid NEXT summer. I've already thrown in the towel for this coming season, lol. The kids won't be ready, Mo/Ed/DBoss (gotta give him credit for hanging in there) will be the only players to watch next season. Like it or lump it, we get another season of Joey and Bustina.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Kasper will be in GR most of the season until trades or injuries happen. Kasper and Mazur haven't even played a season in GR and you want them on the roster.

Not every player needs a season in GR. Kasper I'd say is relatively likely to make the NHL roster. Mazur is more of a darkhorse but he's on a trajectory that indicates he could be a quick learner who doesn't need a lot of AHL seasoning.