Maybe Tavares is the problem
- Thread starter ryno23
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Racer88
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Nothing will ever change as long as those 5 are all on the team
Only 5 players remain.
The core 5.
The only constant through 7 years of playoff failure.
Everything around them has been changed - including the coach and general manager.
As long as they remain - nothing has really changed.
Jimmy Firecracker
They Fired Sheldon!
Someone on r/leafs posted the playoff stats of the last 60 years of playoff numbers recently, and it really put into stark contrast just how poorly Tavares has performed. His numbers for what he's being paid are abysmal in the postseason.
I went back to 1970-71 when Sittler broke into the league and was the Leafs first star in the post-expansion era. In terms of raw points over those 53 postseasons, Tavares ranks 21st among Leafs. Now granted, that's unfair as some guys have played more than twice as many games as him. However when it comes to points-per-game, among players who have played at least two 7 game series worth of games (14) Tavares ranks an even worse 25th.
That's not only behind our current crop of stars like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly (a defenseman!), or our stars of yesteryear like Gilmour, Sittler, McDonald, Clark, Sundin, Keon, and Turnbull (another defenseman!), it's also behind lesser stars and role players like Anderson, Thomas, Gartner, Berezin, and Van Riemsdyk.
For $11 million a year John should not be just barely above half a point-per-game in the playoffs (0.63 to be exact). He at least should be matching the PPG pace of Nylander and Roberts (both at 0.80). John suffers the biggest points pace drop off of the core players, dropping 0.32 points from 0.95 in the regular season to 0.63 in the playoffs. For comparison, Matthews drops 0.28 points, Marner drops 0.23, Nylander drops .09, and Rielly actually improves going from 0.68 in the regular season to 0.70 in the playoffs.
Regardless of everything else, when it comes down to it Tavares has simply not produced enough in the playoffs. For a player of his skill and stature, it's been a tremendous disappointment. The guy that was supposed to put this team into true contender status has simply failed to perform when the games matter most. He's not solely responsible for this teams many failures, but he hasn't helped matters all that much either.
I went back to 1970-71 when Sittler broke into the league and was the Leafs first star in the post-expansion era. In terms of raw points over those 53 postseasons, Tavares ranks 21st among Leafs. Now granted, that's unfair as some guys have played more than twice as many games as him. However when it comes to points-per-game, among players who have played at least two 7 game series worth of games (14) Tavares ranks an even worse 25th.
That's not only behind our current crop of stars like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly (a defenseman!), or our stars of yesteryear like Gilmour, Sittler, McDonald, Clark, Sundin, Keon, and Turnbull (another defenseman!), it's also behind lesser stars and role players like Anderson, Thomas, Gartner, Berezin, and Van Riemsdyk.
For $11 million a year John should not be just barely above half a point-per-game in the playoffs (0.63 to be exact). He at least should be matching the PPG pace of Nylander and Roberts (both at 0.80). John suffers the biggest points pace drop off of the core players, dropping 0.32 points from 0.95 in the regular season to 0.63 in the playoffs. For comparison, Matthews drops 0.28 points, Marner drops 0.23, Nylander drops .09, and Rielly actually improves going from 0.68 in the regular season to 0.70 in the playoffs.
Regardless of everything else, when it comes down to it Tavares has simply not produced enough in the playoffs. For a player of his skill and stature, it's been a tremendous disappointment. The guy that was supposed to put this team into true contender status has simply failed to perform when the games matter most. He's not solely responsible for this teams many failures, but he hasn't helped matters all that much either.
notDatsyuk
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What I find most surprising is that his winger shows by far the least dropoff of the four, while he shows the greatest.
Racer88
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Tavares is 50% of the problem. Marner is the other half.
Mess
Global Moderator
John Tavares seems be accomplishing about as much for Toronto today as Phil Kessel did in his time as a Leaf, where both had their Maple Leaf tenures mired in playoff failure.
One of Shanahan's 1st moves was to trade Kessel upon taking the Leaf President's job, and then signing Tavares as his big UFA signing endorsed move for this new generation and iteration of Leaf .Maybe Tavares isn't the biggest problem?
lol, too funny and coincidental once a player leaves all of a sudden it’s, hey he didn’t suck after all. It’s the team system . When you have the weapons and you fail, it’s on the coaching and nobody else.
Hoglund4MvP
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Gary Nylund
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Nonsense. They fail because these "weapons" aren't as powerful a people used to think.
JT isn't a problem, but his 11 million dollar cap hit sure is.
Its not your fault
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Evilhomer
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Sure, but any team that he would be a 1C on wouldn't be much of a contender.
Awful for 11 mill, set a bad precedent for the kids in going after max dollar and failed completely.
I guess you can't say that because we in Toronto can't be "mean" aka we have to tolerate shit performances from overpaid duds.
He needs to go unless it's for a league min, but let me guess he's going to want "market value" aka he's going to want 5 mill+.
No thanks, let's try something new, but it is the Leafs who are not in the NHL, but their own NHL (National Happiness League (for the players that is not the fans)), so it would not surprise me if he is extended and back to fail some more.
I guess you can't say that because we in Toronto can't be "mean" aka we have to tolerate shit performances from overpaid duds.
He needs to go unless it's for a league min, but let me guess he's going to want "market value" aka he's going to want 5 mill+.
No thanks, let's try something new, but it is the Leafs who are not in the NHL, but their own NHL (National Happiness League (for the players that is not the fans)), so it would not surprise me if he is extended and back to fail some more.
hotpaws
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HockeyVirus
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Maybe the problem is Frank the supervisor of the sushi place in the ACC. He's been here since 2014. Time for change IMO
Punch Drunk Loov
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notDatsyuk
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He's been shown to be incorrect many times, but his notbias is strong.
Maple Leaf
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the fact of the matter is jt's contract set the precedent the moment we signed him.
i don't have a problem with the player, but have a big problem with the contract.
i don't have a problem with the player, but have a big problem with the contract.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Tavares has 24 pts in 38 playoff games
Thats 52 pts per 82 despite #1PP time and playing with 88 or 16 basically all thw time
Tyler bozak had 10 pts in 18 playoff games in 2013, 2017, and 2018 on a smaller role and lower scoring team or 45 pts per 82 games
Tavares has given us 3C production and play and is 5-6M overpaid in the playoffs. He is without a doubt the worst performer in the playoffs of the big 5
Thats 52 pts per 82 despite #1PP time and playing with 88 or 16 basically all thw time
Tyler bozak had 10 pts in 18 playoff games in 2013, 2017, and 2018 on a smaller role and lower scoring team or 45 pts per 82 games
Tavares has given us 3C production and play and is 5-6M overpaid in the playoffs. He is without a doubt the worst performer in the playoffs of the big 5
Without a doubt. His numbers in playoffs are embarrasing if you compare to the players in the league in similar salary bracket
Tavares gets premium ice time, premium players on his wings yet fail to produce
Yes I know that goes the same with Matthews and he has been criticized as well
I was really excited when we got his guy, really thought he would be our next Sundin type of captain. He has been anything but
Two players couldn't be so different from each other in playoffs. Sundin was so clutch
Maple Leaf
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I watch tavares I just don't see how he ever dominates the game he scores off some rebounds
Mess
Global Moderator
At this stage of his career and his drop off in play he should really be nothing more than a 3rd line centre making $5-5.5 mil and trying to put up 60 points with PP time.
Ideally however because of his lack of foot speed he would be better suited to shift to the wing as the end of his NHL career approaches, because it requires less defensive responsibilities.
Ideally however because of his lack of foot speed he would be better suited to shift to the wing as the end of his NHL career approaches, because it requires less defensive responsibilities.
Stephen
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